Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Savoie Gets an Audition With the Trade Deadline Looming

[CantHaveTkachev]

It wouldn't hand you shit, but it would give you a fighting chance especially against certain teams. As is, Skinner is gonna get cooked if he ever has to face a top tier offensive talent like an Eichel or MacKinnon/Makar in a 7 game series.

If we can draw the exact same path to a Finals (LA to Van to Dallas), then maybe we can insulate Skinner enough because the best offensive player he'll have to see is like Jason Robertson, but if he has to face anyone a tier above that, dude is gonna get his ass cooked.

maybe....but what has Gibson done in the pressure of the playoffs lately to show he has the chops to do it? he's been sitting on the beach in April for the past few seasons and has never had to deal with the pressure of being a goaltender in a Canadian market in the playoffs

 

[samiam]

If he’s medically cleared to play while the season is still happening, they have no choice.

But what if don't have a choice, and absolutely can't? What has to give?
My understanding was we can't activate him unless we are compliant.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Darren Dreger said the Oilers and John Gibson talks have been out there for a long time all season. He said this on Edmonton Sports Talk

Well there goes that. The dream is dead.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

if Kane comes back during the regular season, it'll be dollar in-dollar out for players

I can't see Kane back this season. Imo a lot of this talk is the Oilers posturing, so it doesn't look as blatant that he's back in round one.

"We always said It was always going to be close to April recovery. It's not like we deliberately held him out until the playoffs began" (or that the 2 week conditioning stint also lined up perfectly with the end of season)


Though with Vegas now looking to do the same thing with Theodore, I doubt the Oil are as afraid of the league singling them out and introducing some on-the-fly rule that Kane would be ineligible for round 1.

 

[brentashton]

But what if don't have a choice, and absolutely can't?
My understanding was we can't activate him unless we are compliant.

There’s no such thing as “don’t have a choice”. That’s the GMs job to manage these things. That’s like saying a team signed too many players and have exceeded the allowable number of NHL contracts. It just can’t happen.

So you get compliant in advance of him being cleared, ie using Waivers or trades to clear space, in order to do so. Technically you can’t hold a contracted player off the roster once cleared to play. You can still trade after the TDL, players just aren’t eligible for playoffs if so.

That said, it’s the NHL, so subterfuge does happen. Except when it’s the Oilers.

 

[Jumptheshark]

samiam said:
But what if don't have a choice, and absolutely can't? What has to give?
My understanding was we can't activate him unless we are compliant

it has not happened yet--but if a team keeps a player on the LTIR because they can not bring for that reason..the NHL can sanction the team

 

[Soundwave]

maybe....but what has Gibson done in the pressure of the playoffs lately to show he has the chops to do it? he's been sitting on the beach in April for the past few seasons and has never had to deal with the pressure of being a goaltender in a Canadian market in the playoffs

Well, tough shit then Oilers. These idiots have had 10 years to find a starter and they haven't. At this point it's shit or get off the pot time, and the flip side to that argument is if the goaltending here isn't good enough, then where do they even go after being eliminated this year?

Going to beg Nashville for Saros at 7.7 million in the summer? They're not going to retain for shit either because that's a 7-8 year extension (if you retain it's for the same retention for all 7-8 years, no team is going to agree to that). They're going to want probably Savoie or O'Reilly + another 1st. All of the sudden you're going to be thinking maybe Gibson @30-50% retained for only 2 years after this one if it was there wasn't such a bad deal.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Honestly I still don't mind letting McLeod or Foegele go. Savoie's ELC years are going to be important, and imo Foegele's too small to play the game he wants (he fits better in LA where he can be the smallest guy on this line, that wouldn't be the case here). Same with the Arvidsson signing: he gives you something the team lacked, a skilled RHS that can create offence, and he also fit as a nice bridge to Savoie.


The big mistake was signing Skinner.

With Arvidsson already here, that made them too small on wing. Plus with 6 other quality LHS (McDavid, Drai, RNH, Henrique, Holloway, and Kane), it was harder to see where Skinner fit in without stepping on others' toes. Not to mention that 3mil went a long way to making them vulnerable to the offer sheets.


RNH-McDavid-Hyman
Holloway-Drai-Arvidsson
Janmark-Henrique-Brown
Lavoie-Ryan-Perry

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Broberg/Kulak
Broberg/Kulak-Ceci
Stecher

Skinner
Pickard

And about 5mil in LTIR space to upgrade the roster.

Arvidsson is such a skilled RHS he is worse than Foegele was last year? Really?

Foegele is a nothing player at this point. He has decent advanced stats but he generates nothing.

Skinner is not softer than McLeod.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Arvidsson is such a skilled RHS he is worse than Foegele was last year? Really?

Foegele is a nothing player at this point. He has decent advanced stats but he generates nothing.


Agree to disagree.

You know who is definitely NOT softer than McLeod? The much smaller and more skilled Savoie on his ELC.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Well, tough shit then Oilers. These idiots have 10 years to find someone better and they haven't. At this point it's shit or get off the pot time, and the flip side to that arguement is if the goaltending here isn't good enough, then where do they go after being eliminated this year?

Going to beg Nashville for Saros at 7 million? They're not going to retain for shit either because that's a 7-8 year extension, all of the sudden you're going to be thinking maybe Gibson @50% if it was there wasn't such a bad deal.

even if they get Gibson for 50%...they have ZERO cap space so they'll need to trade a decent size piece....and very little assets to acquire him

and maybe he's the key piece to win the Cup...but what if turns into Hellebuyck of the 2023 and 2024 playoffs? do you keep him around hoping if figures it out as the team ages out? do you continue to trade for goalie after goalie every year in the hopes "he's the one"?

either way.... it's risky

fine trade for a goalie....but you better be right

 

[Soundwave]

even if they get Gibson for 50%...they have ZERO cap space so they'll need to trade a decent size piece....and very little assets to acquire him

and maybe he's the key piece to win the Cup...but what if turns into Hellebuyck of the 2023 and 2024 playoffs? do you keep him around hoping if figures it out as the team ages out? do you continue to trade for goalie after goalie every year in the hopes "he's the one"?

either way.... it's risky

fine trade for a goalie....but you better be right

It's all risky because they've put themselves in a stupid situation, so that's their own making.

Gibson @ 3.2 or 4 million, if you can get that now, you'd f***ing stupid to not take it. Move Arvidsson's ass out or whoever you have to. But knowing this management ... they'll flirt with the idea, fail to get it done, and then get bent over backwards by Nashville in a trade in the summer for Saros where they'll give up significantly more and somehow have to fit in 7.7 million salary and really compromise their whole cap structure.

The upcoming goalie market is not good. Ottawa got Ullmark, Colorado got Blackwood, San Jose pounded on Askarov all while we sat on our hands doing nothing. At some point you miss out on so many buses that the last bus for the night is gone and you end up sleeping at the bus station on a cold, hard bench like a dummy.

 

[McShogun99]

JJ couldn't wait to throw Kenny Holland's good players in the trash in exchange for older, slower, smaller and worse players

yikes

It’s almost like that Kenny Holland kid had experience in building a winning team.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I noticed that we got terrible defensively after Klingberg got in the lineup lol

 

[CupofOil]

Very illuminating.
I posted in anther thread that the team has not properly replaced these players.

Also of note the players the Oilers brought in (to replace these players) made them a significantly older team.

Agreed and my biggest issue is the long term damage these moves made but for this year and the short term, the regular season means very little. If Arvidsson, Skinner (if he's still here), Podkolzin, 3rd line from last year perform well in the postseason I couldn't care less about regular season stats. It's all about the playoffs with this team so....we'll see, The issue last year was that Foegele and McLeod followed up solid regular seasons with crappy playoffs, in Foegele's case the first 3 series, so playoffs are the make and break judgment for these guys.

Long term though? It's going to be a problem. They were really banking on Broberg and Holloway to fill voids long term and extend the Cup window and now that's up in smoke so these replacements better deliver in the next 1 or 2 playoffs.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I noticed that we got terrible defensively after Klingberg got in the lineup lol

his defensive prowls was well known when we got him. I think I posted my usual joke when there was talks of the oiles signing him. It is team photo day and he walks up to a player who he assumes is new and introduces himself and welcomes him to the team. New guy looks at him and says "I have been your goalie for 5 years"

 

[foshizzle]

Delete

I noticed that we got terrible defensively after Klingberg got in the lineup lol

I said that earlier. We did. The dmen had better flow and chemistry with Stetcher. They were able to slide in Kulak on the second pair and go back to Stetcher situationally and it just flowed. Stetcher is also way better through the neutral zone. Not a fan of Klingberg backing right up to the goalie.

 

[foshizzle]

I really think that basing a player's worth off one playoffs is misguided. We discarded Eberle for such reasons and we haven't had a sniper winger since.

I agree. Against Vegas, McLeod matched up real well and won his share. We fell apart when Woody moved away from that matchup

his defensive prowls was well known when we got him. I think I posted my usual joke when there was talks of the oiles signing him. It is team photo day and he walks up to a player who he assumes is new and introduces himself and welcomes him to the team. New guy looks at him and says "I have been your goalie for 5 years"

It’s not only the defensive end- he is horrible in the neutral zone. Maybe he doesn’t have faith in his skating to front plays that he just backs up giving up easy zone entries

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

even if they get Gibson for 50%...they have ZERO cap space so they'll need to trade a decent size piece....and very little assets to acquire him

and maybe he's the key piece to win the Cup...but what if turns into Hellebuyck of the 2023 and 2024 playoffs? do you keep him around hoping if figures it out as the team ages out? do you continue to trade for goalie after goalie every year in the hopes "he's the one"?

either way.... it's risky

fine trade for a goalie....but you better be right

Standing pat is riskier imo. Gibson retained with only 2 years remaining isn’t a big risk. It’s not like the terrible Campbell contract.

I’m telling you right now the league has the book on both our goalies, they’re getting eaten alive. Listen to Noodles on GYB.. he says what we all know about Skinner, terrible lateral movement. Pickard is scarier.. he doesn’t have the flexibility to butterfly.. if Noodles knows this I’d say most goalie coaches know this.

I think if we keep this tandem we get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs. They’ll watch video, they’ll pick apart our goalies weaknesses. Sure looked like teams had Skinner figured out for most of the last post season..

 

[guymez]

Agreed and my biggest issue is the long term damage these moves made but for this year and the short term, the regular season means very little. If Arvidsson, Skinner (if he's still here), Podkolzin, 3rd line from last year perform well in the postseason I couldn't care less about regular season stats. It's all about the playoffs with this team so....we'll see, The issue last year was that Foegele and McLeod followed up solid regular seasons with crappy playoffs, in Foegele's case the first 3 series, so playoffs are the make and break judgment for these guys.

Long term though? It's going to be a problem. They were really banking on Broberg and Holloway to fill voids long term and extend the Cup window and now that's up in smoke so these replacements better deliver in the next 1 or 2 playoffs.

I hear what your're saying and I agree.
Although I wasnt as hard on McLeod as some because I saw a lot of utility in his game.
His speed is also sorely missed IMO.

That said your main point about how it hurts this team moving forward is a very good one which is why they simply cant afford to trade Savoie. They need players with cheap contracts who can contribute and that almost always comes from players (like Savoie) who are brought up through the system.

In terms of the playoffs...those games tend to favor bigger heavier teams that can run 4 lines. The Oilers at this point in time are not one of those teams.
Hell this team cant even go very long without haing to load up one line to win games.

It is possible that things could change and the players who were brought in will up their game in the playoffs.
The issue with that is that the games against the bigger heavier teams so far have not gone well for this team.

 

[North]

lol I honestly I don't care if they change up the goaltending...unlike some here who seems to think they should just hand us the Cup with Gibson in net

I don’t think anybody thinks that. They just think Gibson would give us a better chance than Skinner would.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Friedman says its not out of the realm of possibility that we look at goaltending but also believes we are caring about fixing our top 4 defense and the chemistry in the top 9.

Says the team is trying hard not to panic.

If Skinner lays the crapper tonight, what's going to happen

 

[foshizzle]

Yeeaah, I'm not going to pretend like I didn't like the offseason moves they made. But it's pretty safe to say that they made the wrong moves at this point, at least as far as the regular season goes.

Edit: Except for not matching Broberg. I think that one still stands up.

I didn’t really care about Broberg- he never wanted to be here anyways. It was Holloway that still stings. I mean, Alberta boy, put in his dues, we brought him up and sent him down like a toilet seat- he didn’t complain- just got better each time. Comes up for the playoffs, scores some huge goals- imho has his coming out party- then we let him walk over a million bucks. He was great on Drai’s wing during the run, would have been this year too- but decided to go for the shiny new toy. Absolutely garbage move by the leadership

Friedman says its not out of the realm of possibility that we look at goaltending but also believes we are caring about fixing our top 4 defense and the chemistry in the top 9.

Says the team is trying hard not to panic.

If Skinner lays the crapper tonight, what's going to happen

The thing is- if the oilers give up nothing and the Oilers win 4-3 does that absolve of him being absolute trash all year and half the playoffs last year? Facts are that he has had 1 good season. He has been getting worse every year

Standing pat is riskier imo. Gibson retained with only 2 years remaining isn’t a big risk. It’s not like the terrible Campbell contract.

I’m telling you right now the league has the book on both our goalies, they’re getting eaten alive. Listen to Noodles on GYB.. he says what we all know about Skinner, terrible lateral movement. Pickard is scarier.. he doesn’t have the flexibility to butterfly.. if Noodles knows this I’d say most goalie coaches know this.

I think if we keep this tandem we get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs. They’ll watch video, they’ll pick apart our goalies weaknesses. Sure looked like teams had Skinner figured out for most of the last post season..

I loved Noodles calling out his lack of lateral movement.

 

[soothsayer]

Well there goes that. The dream is dead.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

It's all risky because they've put themselves in a stupid situation, so that's their own making.

Gibson @ 3.2 or 4 million, if you can get that now, you'd f***ing stupid to not take it. Move Arvidsson's ass out or whoever you have to. But knowing this management ... they'll flirt with the idea, fail to get it done, and then get bent over backwards by Nashville in a trade in the summer for Saros where they'll give up significantly more and somehow have to fit in 7.7 million salary and really compromise their whole cap structure.

The upcoming goalie market is not good. Ottawa got Ullmark, Colorado got Blackwood, San Jose pounded on Askarov all while we sat on our hands doing nothing. At some point you miss out on so many buses that the last bus for the night is gone and you end up sleeping at the bus station on a cold, hard bench like a dummy.

I agree with this. If you can get Gibson at 50% retained, and you move out Arvidsson and picks (2nd, 3rd, maybe one more lower pick), then I do it for sure. But, I do not feel that the Ducks would eat that much for that return.

But, totally agree, if you can get Gibson at 50% retained for a deal that doesn't cost too much, they would be crazy not to.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

I didn’t really care about Broberg- he never wanted to be here anyways. It was Holloway that still stings. I mean, Alberta boy, put in his dues, we brought him up and sent him down like a toilet seat- he didn’t complain- just got better each time. Comes up for the playoffs, scores some huge goals- imho has his coming out party- then we let him walk over a million bucks. He was great on Drai’s wing during the run, would have been this year too- but decided to go for the shiny new toy. Absolutely garbage move by the leadership


The thing is- if the oilers give up nothing and the Oilers win 4-3 does that absolve of him being absolute trash all year and half the playoffs last year? Facts are that he has had 1 good season. He has been getting worse every year


I loved Noodles calling out his lack of lateral movement.

Noodles made a few really good points, the guy knows the position. Skinner is, who he is. He's a big goalie, poor lateral movement, that has a game that is a inconsistent. He can be really good, or he can let in a few bad ones, from time to time. At this point, he's a 1B starter, he'd be fine in a tandem with another guy who is around his same level. I wouldn't feel good about paying Skinner anything above 4 million per right now.