Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Deadline Apocalypse: 3rd Time's a Charm? Stu, Stu, Stupider Management, May the Schwartz Be With You!

[Fourier]

You nailed it. I’ve said the same before on this forum. Goalies being voodoo is code for “I don’t know what the f*** I’m looking for”. Goalies play a position, just like any other player. Oilers do not have a goalie department like all other teams, they do not have a development path, they aren’t provided with the tools needed to be successful. It begins and ends with 1 person. Dustin Schwartz

I think there are two aspects to the "goalies are voodoo" comment. Part is the bolded aspect which I personally am fully guilty of. But there is more to it than this. Goalies tend to be far less consistent in their actual on ice play than the vast majority of skaters. And the risk of a mistake is probably significantly higher for a goalie than a skater if you over spend. This is why consistency is one of my main go to's in terms of goalies.

 

[MessierThanThou]

His weight is also well in range with other bigger goalies.

Stolarz is 6’6 and listed at 243. Vasilevsky is 6’4, 229. Frederick Anderson 6’4, 228. Blackwood 6’4, 225 etc

You’d think if there was an issue with him being out of shape it would have been an issue in the last few years brought up.

And being big is sort of all he has going for him...

I think people are just scared that he might go somewhere else and become the next Dubnyk. I don't see it, especially with how much Schwartz has coached and developed him. Unless he unlearns most of what he was taught and learns what he needs to know, all the while playing competitively enough to remain in the league, it's not happening.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I think any hockey person would put Toronto in the "cup contender" category for certain. Yes, they haven't had playoff success yet really, but would you be shocked if they made the conference finals this year? I wouldn't be at all.

… I would be mind blown.

 

[Messrules11]

I don't think Skinner is the only guy victimized by not having the right mentality. In addition to him, I think some conversations have to be had about the future of RNH and Bouchard as well if things don't correct here.

We need different personalities in key roles. We have too many "nice" guys that don't appear to have much of a competitive edge whatsoever and have major difficulties elevating their intensity when required.

It’s no secret I’ve wanted to move on from Nuge for years. When his contract expired I had a glimmer of hope. Instead he took a discount to stay, that should have sent the warning bells off to anyone who was on the fence with this guy. He wears an A and for the life of me I’ve never understood why. He doesn’t lead on the ice, we know he doesn’t lead in the weight room, the only thing he’s ever led us to is some high draft picks.
It’s nice to see some fans are seeing what I’ve always saw with this player, if you think he’s been awful this year remember there’s another 4 years to go.

 

[Canovin]

I honestly don't know what Stuart does well. He does everything at below average. Not one particular skill that stands out.

He sucks the enjoyment out of fans and even his own teammates it seems.

 

[Mr Positive]

That $88.95M is some weird projected number.

They're spending $92.88M right now.

Where do you see that? I checked another site and it says 88.9

 

[NashtoNowitzki]

If RNH was available as a free agent at his current $5.125 cap hit, I would not sign him. For lack of a better word, he plays like a complete p***y.

He is a jack of all trades. Good skater, good on-ice vision, good hands, and a good shot. Either he's afraid or had all his creativity/aggressiveness coached out of him, but it f***ing sucks watching him play. He never tries to beat anyone with the puck and generate a chance. Just slow it up and try a cross ice seam pass that literally never works. He is a third line center being used as a scoring winger and PP merchant.

He's a useless waste of talent and opportunities.

 

[Canovin]

Where do you see that? I checked another site and it says 88.9

 

[McDNicks17]

Where do you see that? I checked another site and it says 88.9

Puckpedia. Annual cap hit in the bottom left there.

There's something whacky going on with the projected cap space. Current cap space is using the $92.88M number.

 

[Canovin]

If RNH was available as a free agent at his current $5.125 cap hit, I would not sign him. For lack of a better word, he plays like a complete p***y.

He is a jack of all trades. Good skater, good on-ice vision, good hands, and a good shot. Either he's afraid or had all his creativity/aggressiveness coached out of him, but it f***ing sucks watching him play. He never tries to beat anyone with the puck and generate a chance. Just slow it up and try a cross ice seam pass that literally never works. He is a third line center being used as a scoring winger and PP merchant.

He's a useless waste of talent and opportunities.

One of those players we wish was making 2M instead of 5.125M. Hate to see him traded cause retiring as a career Oiler is a nice thing. And at same time, he's so frustrating to watch when he's so vanilla

 

[FlameChampion]

I think any hockey person would put Toronto in the "cup contender" category for certain. Yes, they haven't had playoff success yet really, but would you be shocked if they made the conference finals this year? I wouldn't be at all.

I don’t think they are a bad team if I try to view the team objectively. I have no faith in their star players showing up based on history.

But I have a really hard time seeing them go anywhere in a division with Florida and TB. Thats just a rough go. It would be in their best interest to finish first because their odds of beating Florida and TB are close to zero.

 

[FlameChampion]

It’s no secret I’ve wanted to move on from Nuge for years. When his contract expired I had a glimmer of hope. Instead he took a discount to stay, that should have sent the warning bells off to anyone who was on the fence with this guy. He wears an A and for the life of me I’ve never understood why. He doesn’t lead on the ice, we know he doesn’t lead in the weight room, the only thing he’s ever led us to is some high draft picks.
It’s nice to see some fans are seeing what I’ve always saw with this player, if you think he’s been awful this year remember there’s another 4 years to go.

I think most people haven’t been enthralled with his 5 on 5 play for years. But I do think he has been very good on the special teams. Hard to move on from him when he has been an integral part of the historic PP. Generally been a good PK’er. But now that is even falling apart… well theres not much to like about his game.

I don’t even know where you slot him 5 on 5. I don’t think he can even carry the 3C role which is sad.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

Stauffer basically just said we could have had Rantanen but there was a prospect we didn’t want to give up.. I’m sorry, if it was O’Reilly or Savoie I’d give either and maybe both to make that deal, assuming there’s a rational plan to make it all fit under the cap.

I really like O’Reilly especially, also like Savoie, but they’re not sure things.. Rantanen is. Oh well, we’ve got a little ammo to make other big shots if we can.

 

[K1984]

It’s no secret I’ve wanted to move on from Nuge for years. When his contract expired I had a glimmer of hope. Instead he took a discount to stay, that should have sent the warning bells off to anyone who was on the fence with this guy. He wears an A and for the life of me I’ve never understood why. He doesn’t lead on the ice, we know he doesn’t lead in the weight room, the only thing he’s ever led us to is some high draft picks.
It’s nice to see some fans are seeing what I’ve always saw with this player, if you think he’s been awful this year remember there’s another 4 years to go.

If he were a part of almost any other team I would vehemently disagree with you. He (theoretically) does a lot for his cap hit. However, the plodding pace, the inability to elevate, the lazy play are issues through the lineup. If he were a part of a more in your face, energetic group generally I think he would thrive because his slower, softer approach would be the exception, not the rule.

Here he's just another part of the problem.

 

[Messrules11]

If RNH was available as a free agent at his current $5.125 cap hit, I would not sign him. For lack of a better word, he plays like a complete p***y.

He is a jack of all trades. Good skater, good on-ice vision, good hands, and a good shot. Either he's afraid or had all his creativity/aggressiveness coached out of him, but it f***ing sucks watching him play. He never tries to beat anyone with the puck and generate a chance. Just slow it up and try a cross ice seam pass that literally never works. He is a third line center being used as a scoring winger and PP merchant.

He's a useless waste of talent and opportunities.

I don’t think he is even a good skater or has a good shot. He looks slow and is always the first guy to the bench. When you do see him on the bench he’s not even winded, meanwhile McD and Hyman are gasping for air. His shot is a simple muffin to the same spot virtually every time. How many one timers have you ever seen him take, I’ve never seen him take a slapshot ever.
He can’t win a board battle, won’t hit, and anytime an opponent comes near him he instantly defers, he makes 5M and there he has a deferring to such studs as a Brown, Janmark or some scrub making league minimum. Just once I’d like to see him try to beat an opponent one on one. For comparison McDrai do that 3 times a shift.

 

[Mr Positive]

Stauffer basically just said we could have had Rantanen but there was a prospect we didn’t want to give up.. I’m sorry, if it was O’Reilly or Savoie I’d give either and maybe both to make that deal, assuming there’s a rational plan to make it all fit under the cap.

I really like O’Reilly especially, also like Savoie, but they’re not sure things.. Rantanen is. Oh well, we’ve got a little ammo to make other big shots if we can.

Bowman said it was because we didn't have a roster player to give them, like Stankoven (he gave no specifics whatsoever on that one but it seemed obvious who he was talking about). The rumor is also that we were Rantanen's first choice.

Regardless, I say that's a bullet dodged. I like Rantanen but not for 13 million AAV.

 

[FlameChampion]

I don’t think he is even a good skater or has a good shot. He looks slow and is always the first guy to the bench. When you do see him on the bench he’s not even winded, meanwhile McD and Hyman are gasping for air. His shot is a simple muffin to the same spot virtually every time. How many one timers have you ever seen him take, I’ve never seen him take a slapshot ever.
He can’t win a board battle, won’t hit, and anytime an opponent comes near him he instantly defers, he makes 5M and there he has a deferring to such studs as a Brown, Janmark or some scrub making league minimum. Just once I’d like to see him try to beat an opponent one on one. For comparison McDrai do that 3 times a shift.

I think his skating is just blah. His stride is probably good technically. But he literally has no gears and he can’t separate himself from anyone.

His wrist shot is good but takes eons to get off because once again he can’t separate himself.

The only positives with him is that he doesn’t really make that many defensive mistakes. I also suspect that he would have more empty net success than some of our forwards (which wouldn’t be that difficult).

 

[Canovin]

Oilers going for Rantanen and adding Walman might just mean Bouchard is on the trade list. So I could see the Oilers trying to sign Marner and getting a younger and cheaper Dman and other assets for Bouchard.

With that said I can also see the Oilers signing Bouchard to 8M x 2 years.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

They only had $1M of the LTIR left.

Alex Lyon, might of helped, might not of, but he was such a getable option.

1) Detroit is struggling - not going to the playoffs, regardless of trading a goalie.
2)Lyon makes 900 K a year, so he fits in our cap.
3)Lyon is a 32 year old, pending UFA - so he's not Detroit's goalie of the future, also Tablot and Mrzaek are both signed for next season, and Cossa should be ready for his shot after that.
4)Due to all that, I imagine the cost to acquire wouldn't of been much, a 4th rounder, maybe a C level prospect, but far from substantial.


I don't know why Bowman didn't trade for this guy and/or why Detroit never moved him.

Seemed like a automatic for me, once they acquired Mrazek.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

Oilers going for Rantanen and adding Walman might just mean Bouchard is on the trade list. So I could see the Oilers trying to sign Marner and getting a younger and cheaper Dman and other assets for Bouchard.

With that said I can also see the Oilers signing Bouchard to 8M x 2 years

in the same way that I see Bouchard as a good fit for him, and the Oilers, I don't know what team out there would feel the same way for them and Bouchard. To the point where they would a) give us a good enough return for us to want to trade him away. b) or in the case of an RFA offer sheet, is any team really comfortable enough to offer Bouchard something that Edmonton wouldn't match (which in my mind is at the very least 10 million per or more)

 

[unicornBLOOD]

Bowman said it was because we didn't have a roster player to give them, like Stankoven (he gave no specifics whatsoever on that one but it seemed obvious who he was talking about). The rumor is also that we were Rantanen's first choice.

Regardless, I say that's a bullet dodged. I like Rantanen but not for 13 million AAV.

let's say they make the Rantanen deal and they demanded Savoie in return, this year now becomes a must win, if they can't win with Drai, Rantanen, McDavid - at a combined (25.625) - and Bouchard on the team at 4 million per then how could you win with Drai, Rantanen, and McDavid at an estimated 44 million per, and due to lack of cap space, probably no Bouchard?

Add in that if they went with all that money up front, you would NEED guys like Savoie who are cheaper, and ready.

The idea of it, especially for this year is so tempting, but after this season is over, I don't think it would work out, cap wise. They would need Bowman and the scouting staff, both amateur and pro, would have to be damn near perfect in drafting, developing, and acquiring - both through free agency and trades, in order to fill out a roster that could still compete.

A whole lot of "ifs" there, too many for my liking.

 

[Bumblebee Man]

Alex Lyon, might of helped, might not of, but he was such a getable option.

1) Detroit is struggling - not going to the playoffs, regardless of trading a goalie.
2)Lyon makes 900 K a year, so he fits in our cap.
3)Lyon is a 32 year old, pending UFA - so he's not Detroit's goalie of the future, also Tablot and Mrzaek are both signed for next season, and Cossa should be ready for his shot after that.
4)Due to all that, I imagine the cost to acquire wouldn't of been much, a 4th rounder, maybe a C level prospect, but far from substantial.


I don't know why Bowman didn't trade for this guy and/or why Detroit never moved him.

Seemed like a automatic for me, once they acquired Mrazek.

Don't think he was getable. Rumor is they only ponyed up Talbot

 

[Jumptheshark]

IF IF IF IF

The oilers were in on Rantanen (resigned)--All prospects were in play. He has back to back 100 pts seasons, 6+ 30 goal seasons

if he was willing to resign for 8 years at whatever he got? We do the deal.

We would have needed to move out one of Nuge, Hyman or Kane. 2027+2028 first and Lavoie and O'Reilly Or maybe Bouchard.

That is a go big or go home moment

 

[Heavy Dee]

Bowman said it was because we didn't have a roster player to give them, like Stankoven (he gave no specifics whatsoever on that one but it seemed obvious who he was talking about). The rumor is also that we were Rantanen's first choice.

Regardless, I say that's a bullet dodged. I like Rantanen but not for 13 million AAV.

Lebrun had a good article. Said his first choice was Dallas. He is tight with all the Finns. I believe that.

 

[McShogun99]

Stauffer basically just said we could have had Rantanen but there was a prospect we didn’t want to give up.. I’m sorry, if it was O’Reilly or Savoie I’d give either and maybe both to make that deal, assuming there’s a rational plan to make it all fit under the cap.

I really like O’Reilly especially, also like Savoie, but they’re not sure things.. Rantanen is. Oh well, we’ve got a little ammo to make other big shots if we can.

They’re saving Savoie or O’Reiily for the Pastrnak trade this summer.