Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Deadline Apocalypse: 3rd Time's a Charm? Stu, Stu, Stupider Management, May the Schwartz Be With You!

[guymez]

Robin Lehner played at 6'4" 250 pounds as one specific example. He was a bit of an athletic freak but prone to injuries. Skinner's been durable which is important and a potential issue if he was out of shape or overweight. I doubt the team would neglect this if it was an obvious issue - they have no fallback with another organization failure of limited quality depth. Player's public listings have historically often been shown to be fudged so who actually knows what his true deets are.

He's not athletic which is an issue. I personally think his slow movement is more poor or developing processor/hockey sense with read and react to game situation. The guy is built like a refrigerator bad and good for his vocation. Modern era NHL that's more bad than good with speed of play and technology aided sticks in which every guy can shoot.

Good find on Lehner.
I dont think that Skinner is out of shape at all...I just think that it is a question of physics.
Short explosive movements (sometimes requiring a reversal of direction) is harder to do if there is more mass to move.

Skinner is obviously not an athletic freak so exploring every possible avenue to create an advantage for himself should be considered IMO.
I mean if he was to drop some bulk and get down to say 215-220 lbs it would be interesting to see how that would affect his ability to move in net. If there was a net positive (pun intended ) with that then its not inconceivable to think that it would positively affect his confidence as well.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Good find on Lehner.
I dont think that Skinner is out of shape at all...I just think that it is a question of physics.
Short explosive movements (sometimes requiring a reversal of direction) is harder to do if there is more mass to move.

Skinner is obviously not an athletic freak so exploring every possible avenue to create an advantage for himself should be considered IMO.
I mean if he was to drop some bulk and get down to say 215-220 lbs it would be interesting to see how that would affect his ability to move in net. If there was a net positive (pun intended ) with that then its not inconceivable to think that it would positively affect his confidence as well.

Stolarz is listed at 243 pounds. Having a pretty good season.

Unfortunately your point is irrelevant in the short-term. They've not going to Jenny Craig him late season. And we don't have any fitness, body fat and comprehensive internal team data about Skinner to base any physiological or diet considerations. To restate, I think his slowness is more processing, hockey sense and decision making which is either going to blunt his ceiling or improve with experience and maturation. Skinner's NHL development has been like throwing a five year old into the Mariana Trench to learn to swim. It's a systemic organizational fail at the game's most important position.

EDIT: It's funny-not funny watching Skinner's shuffling skating reminds me everytime of a cheesy glass company ad that ran with kids playing street hockey break a window and scatter everywhere. There's a big, awkward kid in goalie equipment who kind of slow lurches run away. His lack of athleticism for such a basic skill reinforces a bigger challenge within his development. While I am critical about the player's limitations I will throw him respect for stepping up and withstanding the pressure when the go to guy wilted like a burning candle. Not many rookies in his nuclear team meltdown situation could withstand this pressure and adversity. Ultimately I shoot my arrows upward at the failed organizational lack of strategy for this position and horrible decisions.

 

[McDNicks17]

It looks to me like we are only using 1 million. Puckpedia has our spending at 88.95 million

Plus we have a large roster where we could send a few million down.

Plus we could have sent Pickard the other way. Thats 1 million

That $88.95M is some weird projected number.

They're spending $92.88M right now.

 

[guymez]

Stolarz is listed at 243 pounds. Having a pretty good season.

Unfortunately your point is irrelevant in the short-term. They've not going to Jenny Craig him late season. And we don't have any fitness, body fat and comprehensive internal team data about Skinner to base any physiological or diet considerations. To restate, I think his slowness is more processing, hockey sense and decision making which is either going to blunt his ceiling or improve with experience and maturation. Skinner's NHL development has been like throwing a five year old into the Mariana Trench to learn to swim. It's a systemic organizational fail at the game's most important position.

EDIT: It's funny-not funny watching Skinner's shuffling skating reminds me everytime of a cheesy glass company ad that ran with kids playing street hockey break a window and scatter everywhere. There's a big, awkward kid in goalie equipment who kind of slow lurches run away. His lack of athleticism for such a basic skill reinforces a bigger challenge within his development.

Again I am not at all implying that Skinner is fat...just possibly carrying too much muscle.
Your comment about it being irrelevent in the short term is on point though.
Something to consider for next season maybe.

Its baffling that we are having a conversation about a Goalie...that the team has clealry committed to winning with...who has trouble with movement in the net.
I mean that is something so fundemental...how is it that its even a topic of discussion 3 years into his career as a starter?
Very perplexing.

 

[powerserge]

Again I am not at all implying that Skinner is fat...just possibly carrying too much muscle.
Your comment about it being irrelevent in the short term is on point though.
Something to consider for next season maybe.

Its baffling that we are having a conversation about a Goalie...that the team has clealry committed to winning with...who has trouble with movement in the net.
I mean that is something so fundemental...how is it that its even a topic of discussion 3 years into his career as a starter?
Very perplexing.

He probably just needs to lose the beard and stache and he'll be 10lbs lighter. Might help him...he needs to be better

 

[guymez]

In Struddys World...Strudwick and guests get into the goaltending.

Worth a listen...posted in the Podcast thread.

He probably just needs to lose the beard and stache and he'll be 10lbs lighter. Might help him...he needs to be better

Well thats an easy fix...lol

 

[McDNicks17]

Again I am not at all implying that Skinner is fat...just possibly carrying too much muscle.
Your comment about it being irrelevent in the short term is on point though.
Something to consider for next season maybe.

Its baffling that we are having a conversation about a Goalie...that the team has clealry committed to winning with...who has trouble with movement in the net.
I mean that is something so fundemental...how is it that its even a topic of discussion 3 years into his career as a starter?
Very perplexing.

I think that comes from the Oilers having people with that weird opinion that goalies are voodoo and they're too hard to scout.

I'd argue it's just as easy to scout goalies as any other position. Identify the tools and how well the put them together. For some reason the team hasn't figured out or is just willing to ignore Skinner's lack of maybe the most important tool a goalie has in today's game.

 

[McDoused]

Yeah Dallas is going into next year with 8F, 5D and 2G with only 5.3m in space.

As it stands, you're signing 5 guys to 1m deals and running a 20 man group (not ideal). Dumba and Marchment likely traded this summer.

The crazy thing is that the year after they need to sign Robertson and Harley to larger numbers as well. So they have essentially spent the cap growing.

I think that comes from the Oilers having people with that weird opinion that goalies are voodoo and they're too hard to scout.

I'd argue it's just as easy to scout goalies as any other position. Identify the tools and how well the put them together. For some reason the team hasn't figured out or is just willing to ignore Skinner's lack of maybe the most important tool a goalie has in today's game.

This drives me crazy as well. Sure, goalies can be incredibly inconsistent. I get that the Oilers philosophically don't want to commit big money to a "true starter" the same way a team like Winnipeg or New York does. The goal should be getting guys on short term value contracts that can challenge to be a #1 and hope one of them breaks out. We should have 3 guys at the level of Skinner. Rather, we have Pickard and Rodrigues who don't have that same upside.

 

[guymez]

I think that comes from the Oilers having people with that weird opinion that goalies are voodoo and they're too hard to scout.

I'd argue it's just as easy to scout goalies as any other position. Identify the tools and how well the put them together. For some reason the team hasn't figured out or is just willing to ignore Skinner's lack of maybe the most important tool a goalie has in today's game.

Yeah...I think that the voodoo part more than anything else has to do with whats going on between a goalies ears.
Especially in terms of that goalie being able to mentally withstand the pressure of being a #1.

In terms of physical tools though I agree with you.

I get the impression that the team is very reluctant to cut bait on Skinner at this point in time (at least in part) because it means that not only did they fail with the Campbell signing but they also failed with the solution to that mistake.
So ultimately it becomes a 5 year failure with goaltending.
That is very damning for an organization who has 2 of the biggest talents in hockey to build around.

 

[McDNicks17]

Yeah...I think that the voodoo part more than anything else has to do with whats going on between a goalies ears.
Especially in terms of that goalie being able to mentally withstand the pressure of being a #1.

In terms of physical tools though I agree with you.

I get the impression that the team is very reluctant to cut bait on Skinner at this point in time (at least in part) because it means that not only did they fail with the Campbell signing but they also failed with the solution to that mistake.
So ultimately it becomes a 5 year failure with goaltending.
That is very damning for an organization who has 2 of the biggest talents in hockey to build around.

I think another factor with Skinner is the team has a real problem dealing with "good dudes". Everyone loves the guy. He seems like a great person. Sometimes it feels like they ignore on-ice performance if guys are a "good dude". RNH is another one that comes to mind right now. There's been a bunch over the years.

I'd actually argue that played a part in their inactivity in the goalie market at the deadline. We've heard countless quotes of how much of a "good dude" Pickard is. They likely could have found an upgrade on both Skinner and Pickard, but my guess is they didn't want to change anything in the locker room.

 

[guymez]

I think another factor with Skinner is the team has a real problem dealing with "good dudes". Everyone loves the guy. He seems like a great person. Sometimes it feels like they ignore on-ice performance if guys are a "good dude". RNH is another one that comes to mind right now. There's been a bunch over the years.

I'd actually argue that played a part in their inactivity in the goalie market at the deadline. We've heard countless quotes of how much of a "good dude" Pickard is. They likely could have found an upgrade on both Skinner and Pickard, but my guess is they didn't want to change anything in the locker room.

Yeah...they certainly are loyal to their players.
The polar opposite of Vegas.

 

[North]

What sucks is even our goaltenders in Bakersfield are sucking.

I'm still pissed that Bowman didn't go for one of Detroit's goaltenders with our 3m LTIR on the table.

I have a feeling our goaltending will result in a 1st round exit.

I wonder if this is partly because Sylvain Rodrigue moved on.

Wasn’t he the one who was responsible for the minor league goalies?

 

[Oilhawks]

I wonder if this is partly because Sylvain Rodrigue moved on.

Wasn’t he the one who was responsible for the minor league goalies?

Who is the goalie coach for Bakersfield nowadays anyhow?

Is Dustbin Schwartz doing double doody via Teams or something?

 

[McDNicks17]

Who is the goalie coach for Bakersfield nowadays anyhow?

Is Dustbin Schwartz doing double doody via Teams or something?

Kelly Guard

Kelly Guard at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com staff profile of Kelly Guard, 1983-06-10 Prince Albert, SK, CAN Canada.

www.eliteprospects.com

Looks like he was a goalie coach for Prince Albert in the WHL for about ten years.

 

[North]

Who is the goalie coach for Bakersfield nowadays anyhow?

Is Dustbin Schwartz doing double doody via Teams or something?

I feel like I read that he was going to be working with the Bakersfield goalies but that was early in the season.

Looks like Kelly Guard is the goalie coach in Bakersfield. @McDNicks17 beat me to it.

Sylvain joined the Florida Panthers and is the goalie coach for the Charlotte Checkers.

He left because he didn’t see a path to the NHL with us.

 

[MessierThanThou]

I feel like I read that he was going to be working with the Bakersfield goalies but that was early in the season.

Looks like Kelly Guard is the goalie coach in Bakersfield. @McDNicks17 beat me to it.

Sylvain joined the Florida Panthers and is the goalie coach for the Charlotte Checkers.

He left because he didn’t see a path to the NHL with us.

It could also be why we've seen Olivier Rodrigue go from one of the better AHL goalies to a mediocre one.

 

[Vagabond]

He left because he didn’t see a path to the NHL with us.

That right there is frightening. That means Schwartz is literally untouchable.

 

[foshizzle]

That right there is frightening. That means Schwartz is literally untouchable.

Yep

 

[foshizzle]

I think that comes from the Oilers having people with that weird opinion that goalies are voodoo and they're too hard to scout.

I'd argue it's just as easy to scout goalies as any other position. Identify the tools and how well the put them together. For some reason the team hasn't figured out or is just willing to ignore Skinner's lack of maybe the most important tool a goalie has in today's game.

You nailed it. I’ve said the same before on this forum. Goalies being voodoo is code for “I don’t know what the f*** I’m looking for”. Goalies play a position, just like any other player. Oilers do not have a goalie department like all other teams, they do not have a development path, they aren’t provided with the tools needed to be successful. It begins and ends with 1 person. Dustin Schwartz

 

[samiam]

That $88.95M is some weird projected number.

They're spending $92.88M right now.

Is this taking into account Perry's bonuses?
I really hope we have enough space leftover to take care of any bonuses, so that nothing has to carry over to next year.

 

[FlameChampion]

Skinner just doesn’t have right mentality or competitiveness to be starter let alone on a “contender” in a hockey market.

And that’s not getting into his physical limitations such as mobility.

Guy needs to either be a back up or he needs to go to a team with no pressure. But I mean Pickard (who isn’t an answer either) is basically doing the same job as Skinner but gets paid $1m.

I hope he proves me wrong but not holding my breath.

If this team struggles in Round 1/2, I see some smart changes made by Bowman. Some uncomfortable conversations need to take place with lots of players.

This team desperately needs a retool with good decisions.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Skinner just doesn’t have right mentality or competitiveness to be starter let alone on a “contender” in a hockey market.

And that’s not getting into his physical limitations such as mobility.

Guy needs to either be a back up or he needs to go to a team with no pressure. But I mean Pickard (who isn’t an answer either) is basically doing the same job as Skinner but gets paid $1m.

I hope he proves me wrong but not holding my breath.

If this team struggles in Round 1/2, I see some smart changes made by Bowman. Some uncomfortable conversations need to take place with lots of players.

This team desperately needs a retool with good decisions.

I mean they should've been looking for at least an upgrade on Pickard after last year's playoffs, even if he played well in those two playoff games. Or even after the first couple months of the season when it became obvious that goaltending was our weakness. The deadline was way past due...

Anyone still defending the goaltending at this point is stubbornly ignorant and/or just doesn't watch the games and/or simply cannot comprehend numbers and statistics and/or doesn't know what the average NHL goaltender should be able to do.

Skinner has had more bad playoff games than good, put up historically poor numbers in the postseason for the cap era (worst GSAx, worst save percentage to win a series, worst save percentage of cap era to make it to the Finals), and set the team back against both Vancouver and Florida. Then allowed a goal on what should've been a routine save in the most critical game of his and McDrai's career. He was good against Dallas and the three-game comeback (when Florida more than likely let their guard down after being up 3-0), but he was mostly shit in the playoffs otherwise. And he was just as much of a liability the year before. It would be hilarious reading all of the mental gymnastics on here to defend him if it wasn't so depressing and pathetic.

 

[K1984]

Skinner just doesn’t have right mentality or competitiveness to be starter let alone on a “contender” in a hockey market.

And that’s not getting into his physical limitations such as mobility.

Guy needs to either be a back up or he needs to go to a team with no pressure. But I mean Pickard (who isn’t an answer either) is basically doing the same job as Skinner but gets paid $1m.

I hope he proves me wrong but not holding my breath.

If this team struggles in Round 1/2, I see some smart changes made by Bowman. Some uncomfortable conversations need to take place with lots of players.

This team desperately needs a retool with good decisions.

I don't think Skinner is the only guy victimized by not having the right mentality. In addition to him, I think some conversations have to be had about the future of RNH and Bouchard as well if things don't correct here.

We need different personalities in key roles. We have too many "nice" guys that don't appear to have much of a competitive edge whatsoever and have major difficulties elevating their intensity when required.

 

[Spawn]

Robin Lehner played at 6'4" 250 pounds as one specific example. He was a bit of an athletic freak but prone to injuries. Skinner's been durable which is important and a potential issue if he was out of shape or overweight. I doubt the team would neglect this if it was an obvious issue - they have no fallback with another organization failure of limited quality depth. Player's public listings have historically often been shown to be fudged so who actually knows what his true deets are.

He's not athletic which is an issue. I personally think his slow movement is more poor or developing processor/hockey sense with read and react to game situation. The guy is built like a refrigerator bad and good for his vocation. Modern era NHL that's more bad than good with speed of play and technology aided sticks in which every guy can shoot. Historic era a space eater could better do the job.

His weight is also well in range with other bigger goalies.

Stolarz is 6’6 and listed at 243. Vasilevsky is 6’4, 229. Frederick Anderson 6’4, 228. Blackwood 6’4, 225 etc

You’d think if there was an issue with him being out of shape it would have been an issue in the last few years brought up.

 

[FlameChampion]

I don't think Skinner is the only guy victimized by not having the right mentality. In addition to him, I think some conversations have to be had about the future of RNH and Bouchard as well if things don't correct here.

We need different personalities in key roles. We have too many "nice" guys that don't appear to have much of a competitive edge whatsoever and have major difficulties elevating their intensity when required.

Yeah my post is eluding to RNH as well. I think the team needs to have uncomfortable conversations with him.

Bouchard is just such a weird player. His non chalant attitude drives me a bit nuts. Hes had a pretty disappointing year. But he has also had a couple really great playoffs. So he does have the ability to ramp it up when it matters. Whether he does this year, we will see.

But guys like RNH and Skinner have never really upped their game when it matters. Both of them lack intensity, urgency, competitiveness etc.

Pretty pathetic year in general from lots of the team.