Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Deadline Apocalypse: 3rd Time's a Charm? Stu, Stu, Stupider Management, May the Schwartz Be With You!

[MessierII]

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I was listening to GYB this evening and Rishaug was saying that the Oilers were close, really close, to landing Rantanen and coming to terms on a contract that was even bigger than the Dallas contract but Carolina liked Stankoven more than the Oilers pieces (assuming that Savoie or O'Reilly was the main piece). I think that's a major bullet dodged not only emptying the farm for Rantanen but paying him franchise money until he's in his late 30s, a guy who I personally am not that impressed with at even strength. Whew

I think Rantanen is talented for sure but we haven’t seen him away from the other stars in Colorado yet. Is he still a 100+ point guy or is he more of an 80 point guy? We don’t know yet.

 

[LTIR]

Carlo is not Rantanen, a top ten player in the league and game breaker type talent. The Oil weren't going to mortgage their entire future to push for a second d-man, especially a right shot guy within very competitive market conditions. Unlikely they could match the Maple Leafs who have some good pedigree prospect overlaps to deal. This is a huge playoff and the Oilers organization may face some bigger roster reshaping if they can't replicate the deep run. Will need some assets to ensure flexibility of future needs.

It's a nice thought. I believe in having deep, versatile and ideally long d-corps for hard, playoff grind series hockey. Especially to help fortify volatile goaltending. But don't think the Oil would have won an arms race for Carlo and this roster post Summer of Jeff was left with holes in all roster areas. Oil made the best d-bet for their primary need with the two way puck mover with utility to play in all game situations and flexibility to move between LD and RD.

1st + prospect isn't mortgaging entire future. We had already done business with BOS and I'm sure they would rather ship Carlo out west instead of their rival .

We had a chance to shore up our D but now we are back to playing musical chairs with Emberson/Klingberg/Stecher and forcing one of Kulak and Walman to play their offside.

There is literally no RHD available via free agency similar to Carlo's quality.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Undersized, soft, will command over 13 million, not much of a playoff track record.

Undersized: Sure, but he's shown he can still be a difference-maker, so I'm not sure if that matters
Soft: Not everyone on the team needs to hit. It's easier to find grit than it is to find elite talent
Not much of playoff track record: Believe it or not, he actually has the highest production out of the "Core Four". I've always found the scrutiny on Marner to be a bit overblown - he has to be their best player and drive the team since their centers can't do it

As for the money, yeah if he asks for that much then I don't know if the Oilers could make it work. But I still think he'd be a good add. He doesn't need to play the same role he does in Toronto here. He's not going to be the focal point for the opponent.

 

[CupofOil]

Why?

Small, soft skilled player about to cash in on a franchise contract in his late 20s? No thanks
I'd rather pursue Bennett who is a big time playoff performer and fits a bigger need at just about half the price although he'll probably stay with Florida because it's... Florida

 

[MessierII]

1st + prospect isn't mortgaging entire future. We had already done business with BOS and I'm sure they would rather ship Carlo out west instead of their rival .

We had a chance to shore up our D but now we are back to playing musical chairs with Emberson/Klingberg/Stecher and forcing one of Kulak and Walman to play their offside.

There is literally no RHD available via free agency similar to Carlo's quality.

In vacuum though Walman is a better all around D man than Carlo. I like Carlo but he’s a #4 stay at home guy. Great player I’ve watched him for years but Walman is a top pair guy who can impact the game in so many more ways.

 

[LTIR]

In vacuum though Walman is a better all around D man than Carlo. I like Carlo but he’s a #4 stay at home guy. Great player I’ve watched him for years but Walman is a top pair guy who can impact the game in so many more ways.

Yup, we were discussing adding Carlo AND Walman both by giving up 2 x 1sts and 2 prospects.

Walman looks like money well spent for sure considering our draft success.

 

[belair]

Hopefully Bouchard agrees to 8M per.
Unless we win the cup Bouchards screwup would likely be big reasons why we didn't and that should factor into his new deal. If we do win the cup you give him his 10M and fill rest of the roster with league min players

Yeah, that's worked out great in the past.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

1st + prospect isn't mortgaging entire future. We had already done business with BOS and I'm sure they would rather ship Carlo out west instead of their rival .

We had a chance to shore up our D but now we are back to playing musical chairs with Emberson/Klingberg/Stecher and forcing one of Kulak and Walman to play their offside.

There is literally no RHD available via free agency similar to Carlo's quality.

As you point out, they've done business with Boston so would have a sense of asking price and likely interest in Oil collateral versus Toronto and prospectively others. Boston get a first year pro centre with good size and high 2nd round pedigree. More advanced than O'Reilly.

The d-corp is not perfect. But good versatility with mid-pair swing guys Kulak and Walman. I also think they will still take a long look at Klingberg in rotation at 3RD.

Sounds like the Oilers were also in a variety of talks for a top 6 forward which also required premium assets. Of course both d-men would have been nice. But deals aren't made in a vacuum and this team was/is paddling to dig itself out of poor summer decisions. Depending how this playoff goes they need to keep some future pedigree picks available to fix roster holes.

 

[Spawn]

Not necessarily a star defenseman, but there are a lot of recent examples of competitive teams moving valued contributors to maneuver the cap and extend their competitive windows.

The reason it makes sense is that we've seen our PP run smoothly in past seasons with Barrie and Klefbom in that QB role. I don't think it's out of the question that you could find top four option on the UFA or trade market for a fraction of the AAV to pick up a big chunk of those minutes.

You also have to factor in the kind of impact that an elite two-way winger of Marner's caliber could have on the team's ability to push the offensive play. I think Toronto has done a decent job of that without a Bouchard caliber puck mover.

Marner at $12m instead of Bouchard at $9m+ could be a decent trade off.

This kind of suggests Bouchards only value is on the PP. Which is far from the case. The biggest benefit of Bouchard is his elite ability to help tilt the ice to the other end of the action.

Klefbom and Barrie might have been able to play the top part of that PP, but they didn’t contribute nearly as much as Bouchard does at 5v5.

Although I’ll note that if you can get Marner at $12m and Bouchard at $9m you could have them both by trading away guys like Kulak, Kane and Arvidsson and replacing them with rookies/~1m guys. Arvidsson replaced by Savoie, kulak replaced by a cheaper #5 D and Kane replaced by… anyone. We don’t even have him in our roster now.

 

[Arpeggio]

This kind of suggests Bouchards only value is on the PP. Which is far from the case. The biggest benefit of Bouchard is his elite ability to help tilt the ice to the other end of the action.

Klefbom and Barrie might have been able to play the top part of that PP, but they didn’t contribute nearly as much as Bouchard does at 5v5.

Although I’ll note that if you can get Marner at $12m and Bouchard at $9m you could have them both by trading away guys like Kulak, Kane and Arvidsson and replacing them with rookies/~1m guys. Arvidsson replaced by Savoie, kulak replaced by a cheaper #5 D and Kane replaced by… anyone. We don’t even have him in our roster now.

I think that's exactly what their plan is, based on them being willing to offer what I assume was over 13 to Rantanen. They're going to try to get out of as many contracts as they can and add a higher salary forward in the summer. I think they feel comfortable with Ekholm, Bouchard, Nurse, and Walman as a top four, and want to spend at forward with the cap going up so much in the near future.

If Marner makes it to free agency, the Oilers will be a heavy suitor imo. Same with Bennet.

 

[LTIR]

This kind of suggests Bouchards only value is on the PP. Which is far from the case. The biggest benefit of Bouchard is his elite ability to help tilt the ice to the other end of the action.

Klefbom and Barrie might have been able to play the top part of that PP, but they didn’t contribute nearly as much as Bouchard does at 5v5.

Although I’ll note that if you can get Marner at $12m and Bouchard at $9m you could have them both by trading away guys like Kulak, Kane and Arvidsson and replacing them with rookies/~1m guys. Arvidsson replaced by Savoie, kulak replaced by a cheaper #5 D and Kane replaced by… anyone. We don’t even have him in our roster now.

Biggest benefit of Bouchard is his durability.
He is not giving us a chance to see how the D fares without him by staying healthy.
I am not going bash him after his game last night. He looked like a legit top pairing Dman.

 

[McShogun99]

All we need is a winger who understands how to deflect a puck on net consistently.

Bouchards bad season wouldn't look as bad with an extra 20 points right now...and make no mistake, he's atleast been robbed of 20 points by players who can't put stick to puck.

Burns has racked in the points by doing just that..shooting for tips.

Bouchard has been getting a lot of his shots blocked this year. Last year almost everything he shot was getting on net.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Likely Rakell has us listed as one of his 8 no trade teams but i wonder if Ekholm could chat with him. Yes i know he needs to gain some muscle mass to get harder on the puck but the boy has hands (at least for stuffing the puck home- he can't pass for shit really) and yes he is 31 but he is signed for 4 years. Dubas would likely trade him straight up for Savoie as they need a quicker turnaround for Sid.
Trade for him just before the draft and tell him he is not going home but to Bio steel and workouts with first David and then on ice with Leon.
Yes i realize by the end of the contract he wont be worth it but the first three years he probably will be.
Retention is highly unlikely.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Bouchard has been getting a lot of his shots blocked this year. Last year almost everything he shot was getting on net.

Some of the lustre has come off Bouchard. He is not learning and the mistakes are getting too consistent. Yet he is still so excellent in Ozone. If your going to trade him in a hockey trade you have to get a really good younger two way guy. Who out there has a guy like that and might overpay quite a bit more than Bouchard is worth.
Lou really like his D guys ....if you catch him at the draft where he doesn't have time to analyze it too much maybe you can get him to make a mistake.
Kevin Hayes make some questionable decisions not infrequently.( no not Bowen).

 

[Oilhawks]

'3 Retweets, 12 Likes'

 

[belair]

This kind of suggests Bouchards only value is on the PP. Which is far from the case. The biggest benefit of Bouchard is his elite ability to help tilt the ice to the other end of the action.

Klefbom and Barrie might have been able to play the top part of that PP, but they didn’t contribute nearly as much as Bouchard does at 5v5.

Although I’ll note that if you can get Marner at $12m and Bouchard at $9m you could have them both by trading away guys like Kulak, Kane and Arvidsson and replacing them with rookies/~1m guys. Arvidsson replaced by Savoie, kulak replaced by a cheaper #5 D and Kane replaced by… anyone. We don’t even have him in our roster now.

It isn't the only value, but what happens if you were to replace Bouchard with that 'Damon Severson' type D? An average two way puck mover in the $5m - $7m range. Does the team offense take a giant hit? Or does the elite top six elevate the defenseman?

The 'tilting' of the ice is overblown. He plays with elite players more often than he doesn't. His offensive game is top tier. But the D zone play will forever be an issue.

I'm not confident that handing him a blank check is the wisest move this summer if the plan is paring down the team's depth to fit the top end players. We're already starting to see the effects of age on some of our guys.

The idea of moving Bouchard is maximizing the return on investment and re-stocking the cupboard. You're not doing that if you're trading away Kane, Arvidsson and Kulak for pennies on the dollar. You may end up having to add assets to move some of those deals.

I just think that Bowman had other ideas if he was signing Rantanen. And if that's the case, I don't think it's entirely out of the question he considers the same with Marner.

 

[Spawn]

It isn't the only value, but what happens if you were to replace Bouchard with that 'Damon Severson' type D? An average two way puck mover in the $5m - $7m range. Does the team offense take a giant hit? Or does the elite top six elevate the defenseman?

The 'tilting' of the ice is overblown. He plays with elite players more often than he doesn't. His offensive game is top tier. But the D zone play will forever be an issue.

I'm not confident that handing him a blank check is the wisest move this summer if the plan is paring down the team's depth to fit the top end players. We're already starting to see the effects of age on some of our guys.

The idea of moving Bouchard is maximizing the return on investment and re-stocking the cupboard. You're not doing that if you're trading away Kane, Arvidsson and Kulak for pennies on the dollar. You may end up having to add assets to move some of those deals.

I just think that Bowman had other ideas if he was signing Rantanen. And if that's the case, I don't think it's entirely out of the question he considers the same with Marner.

Regarding the bold, Bouchard tends to have excellent results on ice regardless of if he’s playing with McDavid, Draisaitl or neither.

And who said anything about a blank check? He should be signed to a deal reflective of the level of player he is.

And the whole premise of using him to restock the cupboard doesn’t make a lot of sense when you likely need to turn around and trade those pieces to add that 2-way 5-7m d-man you’re referring to. That player isn’t available in free agency. The guys who can come remotely close to replacing Bouchard are all going to be making 8-9m too

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

the OG tweeter replied saying it was a photoshop

 

[belair]

Regarding the bold, Bouchard tends to have excellent results on ice regardless of if he’s playing with McDavid, Draisaitl or neither.

And who said anything about a blank check? He should be signed to a deal reflective of the level of player he is.

And the whole premise of using him to restock the cupboard doesn’t make a lot of sense when you likely need to turn around and trade those pieces to add that 2-way 5-7m d-man you’re referring to. That player isn’t available in free agency. The guys who can come remotely close to replacing Bouchard are all going to be making 8-9m too

I wouldn't plan on 'replacing' Bouchard. I think that Marner's offensive impact would replace a lot of the offense lost in that trade-off between Bouchard and the guy taking that role.

Without doing a lot of digging, the one guy in UFA I would target is Dante Fabbro. He'd probably cost less than $4m on a short term deal to acquire. He has a good history with Ekholm and thrives in two areas that fit the team's needs--puck retrievals and transition.

With some of the capital I have our team acquiring, I'd like to target Simon Nemec. He's not ready, but he'd have a lot more runway in this organization to find success.

I think the ask for Bouchard would be in the two 1sts and an elite prospect range. Looking at Carolina, I'm talking Nadeau and two 1sts or something comparable in other markets. That's a high ticket.

I don't think the offense falls off without Bouchard. He certainly helps it. But our team would still function well without it.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

I wouldn't plan on 'replacing' Bouchard. I think that Marner's offensive impact would replace a lot of the offense lost in that trade-off between Bouchard and the guy taking that role.

Without doing a lot of digging the one guy in UFA I would target is Dante Fabbro. He'd probably cost less than $4m on a short term deal to acquire. He has a good history with Ekholm and thrives in two areas that fit the team's needs--puck retrievals and transition.

With some of the capital I have our I'm acquiring, I'd like to target Simon Nemec. He's not ready, but he'd have a lot more runway in this organization to find success.

I think the ask for Bouchard would be in the two 1sts and an elite prospect range. Looking at Carolina, I'm talking Nadeau and two 1sts or something comparable in other markets. That's a high ticket.

I don't think the offense falls off without Bouchard. He certainly helps it. But our team would still function well without it.

A bit surprising in part ...one of your suggestions has some long term sense to it. Maybe not your method of acquistion but at least your target.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I think that's exactly what their plan is, based on them being willing to offer what I assume was over 13 to Rantanen. They're going to try to get out of as many contracts as they can and add a higher salary forward in the summer. I think they feel comfortable with Ekholm, Bouchard, Nurse, and Walman as a top four, and want to spend at forward with the cap going up so much in the near future.

If Marner makes it to free agency, the Oilers will be a heavy suitor imo. Same with Bennet.

Which big contracts can they get out of besides Jeff Skinner and Kane?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

lol

Maple Leafs GM on Marner: 'We want Mitch here for a long time'

Maple Leafs general manager Brad Treliving held a brief scrum with media in Salt Lake City on Sunday.

torontosun.com

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Which big contracts can they get out of besides Jeff Skinner and Kane?

Potentially Bouchard depending on his ask.

 

[McJadeddog]

I think that's exactly what their plan is, based on them being willing to offer what I assume was over 13 to Rantanen. They're going to try to get out of as many contracts as they can and add a higher salary forward in the summer. I think they feel comfortable with Ekholm, Bouchard, Nurse, and Walman as a top four, and want to spend at forward with the cap going up so much in the near future.

If Marner makes it to free agency, the Oilers will be a heavy suitor imo. Same with Bennet.

Agree on Marner for certain. Their pursuit of Rantanen shows that this is a team-model they are very comfortable with. I just don't see him leaving Toronto. Like, why would he? Toronto is just as much of a stanley cup threat that the Oilers are, and he has played his entire career there. He is also from southern Ontario as well, so would have family etc in the area. I'd be very surprised to see him leave TO.