Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Deadline Apocalypse: 3rd Time's a Charm? Stu, Stu, Stupider Management, May the Schwartz Be With You!

[belair]

Are there any recent examples of a team trading a young, star, right handed defenceman and coming out ahead?

There's a real shortage at the position and I think people are undervaluing how hard it would be to replace him. Yes, he is disastrous defensively at times but the team comes out way ahead with his puck moving ability and offensive skills. He's still only 25 and was fifth in Norris voting last season. He was also breaking records last season with his playoff production. I think trading him would lead to a lot of regret.

Not necessarily a star defenseman, but there are a lot of recent examples of competitive teams moving valued contributors to maneuver the cap and extend their competitive windows.

The reason it makes sense is that we've seen our PP run smoothly in past seasons with Barrie and Klefbom in that QB role. I don't think it's out of the question that you could find top four option on the UFA or trade market for a fraction of the AAV to pick up a big chunk of those minutes.

You also have to factor in the kind of impact that an elite two-way winger of Marner's caliber could have on the team's ability to push the offensive play. I think Toronto has done a decent job of that without a Bouchard caliber puck mover.

Marner at $12m instead of Bouchard at $9m+ could be a decent trade off.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Anyone wanna traverse that possible off-season pivot if we consider moving Bouchard's rights and try and sign Marner?

I think we'd have a pretty long list of suitors for Bouchard and could really restock the trade asset cabinet with a potential return.

Right defensemen are the most coveted prize in hockey. We have a homegrown RD who, even with his warts, is a genuine top pair, 60+ point Dman, as well as having one of the highest playoff PPGs for defensemen of all time- at only 25 years old. The Oilers were something like 63% gf with Bouchard on the ice last playoffs, and in the mid 40s% without him. Moving out Bouchard to sign Marner is absolutely insane.

 

[North]

Anyone wanna traverse that possible off-season pivot if we consider moving Bouchard's rights and try and sign Marner?

I think we'd have a pretty long list of suitors for Bouchard and could really restock the trade asset cabinet with a potential return.

We would need a right d back in any trade.

 

[belair]

Right defensemen are the most coveted prize in hockey. We have a homegrown RD who, even with his warts, is a genuine top pair, 60+ point Dman, as well as having one of the highest playoff PPGs for defensemen of all time- at only 25 years old. The Oilers were something like 63% gf with Bouchard on the ice last playoffs, and in the mid 40s% without him. Moving out Bouchard to sign Marner is absolutely insane.

I agree that right handed defensemen are coveted in this league and as such Bouchard would also be a highly coveted trade asset that could do a lot to add trade capital, thus extending Edmonton's window in a year where McDavid can extend.

I'm aware of the type of outscoring Bouchard has had in recent seasons. Care to take a peek at Marner's numbers over the past three seasons? Very similar.

I'm suggesting that it wouldn't be overly difficult for the team to find a 'Damon Severson' out there. A passable top four guy in the $5m-$7m range.

It's something to consider knowing that Bouchard's extension could possibly be prohibitive. And it's a bit of an eye opener this season seeing what happens when the offense dries up at a large scale.

 

[belair]

We would need a right d back in any trade.

Or you'd need to find one elsewhere.

What would that Bouchard trade look like? Who are your suitors? It's fun to consider.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I agree that right handed defensemen are coveted in this league and as such Bouchard would also be a highly coveted trade asset that could do a lot to add trade capital, thus extending Edmonton's window in a year where McDavid can extend.

I'm aware of the type of outscoring Bouchard has had in recent seasons. Care to take a peek at Marner's numbers over the past three seasons? Very similar.

I'm suggesting that it wouldn't be overly difficult for the team to find a 'Damon Severson' out there. A passable top four guy in the $5m-$7m range.

It's something to consider knowing that Bouchard's extension could possibly be prohibitive. And it's a bit of an eye opener this season seeing what happens when the offense dries up at a large scale.

Bouchard at 9 mill is still worth miles more than Severson at 5 mill and Marner at 13 mill. Superstar RD don't go on trees. Bouchard's offense hasn't dried up- in his "down season" he's on pace for 65 points, is +14, is playing 24 minutes a night, and controls play when he's on the ice. You don't get rid of defensemen like Bouchard, you work through the warts to get his game back to where it was last playoffs.

 

[North]

Or you'd need to find one elsewhere.

What would that Bouchard trade look like? Who are your suitors? It's fun to consider.

I’ll be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if Bowman tried to put his stamp on the team and that resulting in Bouchard having a new address.

I do think we’d need an RD of note replacing him before that happens though.

 

[belair]

Bouchard at 9 mill is still worth miles more than Severson at 5 mill and Marner at 13 mill. Superstar RD don't go on trees. Bouchard's offense hasn't dried up- in his "down season" he's on pace for 65 points, is +14, is playing 24 minutes a night, and controls play when he's on the ice. You don't get rid of defensemen like Bouchard, you work through the warts to get his game back to where it was last playoffs.

When he's not on the ice with Draisaitl and McDavid, his GF% over the past three seasons is 52%. That's not a poor stat by any means, but it's worth discussing how much of an impact playing with those two has on his 'elite' status or his ability to 'control play'.

There's a pretty high likelihood that his performance in last year's playoffs was somewhat of an outlier and expecting him to duplicate that with an aging forward group might be a tad optimistic.

One thing that's being overlooked this season is the fact that we currently have five defensemen in the top 50 for EV scoring (including Walman). This team as a unit has done a decent job of driving offense. Add an elite winger to this group instead of a Skinner or a Kane and it's not unlikely you see a continuation of that type of production from your defensemen.

 

[MessierThanThou]

There's a pretty high likelihood that his performance in last year's playoffs was somewhat of an outlier and expecting him to duplicate that with an aging forward group might be a tad optimistic.

Actually, in the previous postseason he had 4 goals and 17 points in 12 Games. Last postseason he had 6 goals and 32 points in 25 games. So not really an outlier when you've essentially maintained the same level of production for two consecutive postseasons.

But you do make a sound point that duplicating that production with this aging forward group is hardly a sure bet. However...with Drai fully healed and playing his best-ever hockey, and the McDavid of old climbing out of the grave, who knows?

 

[AddyTheWrath]

When he's not on the ice with Draisaitl and McDavid, his GF% over the past three seasons is 52%. That's not a poor stat by any means, but it's worth discussing how much of an impact playing with those two has on his 'elite' status or his ability to 'control play'.

There's a pretty high likelihood that his performance in last year's playoffs was somewhat of an outlier and expecting him to duplicate that with an aging forward group might be a tad optimistic.

One thing that's being overlooked this season is the fact that we currently have five defensemen in the top 50 for EV scoring (including Walman). This team as a unit has done a decent job of driving offense. Add an elite winger to this group instead of a Skinner or a Kane and it's not unlikely you see a continuation of that type of production from your defensemen.

OR, and hear me out here if this is difficult, you can add an elite winger without giving up on your stud RD.

 

[belair]

OR, and hear me out here if this is difficult, you can add an elite winger without giving up on your stud RD.

And take > $20m of cap space with McDavid's extension on the horizon?

The rumors of the Oilers pursuing Rantanen meant that long-term cap was going to move out elsewhere. The easy money's on Bouchard. Where else would it come from?

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

According to puckpedia, the following roster has 14,712,500 in available cap for next season

RNH-McDavid-Hyman
Podz-Drai-Arvidsson
Kane-Henrique-Jones
Janmark-xxxx-xxxx
xxxx

Ekholm-xxxx
Nurse-Kulak
Walman-xxxx
Stetcher

Skinner
Pickard

(this includes 2.3 in dead soup space)

Internal Considerations

Expectations are that Bouch will come in between 9&10
Emberson - I wonder if it takes a hair over 2 on a short term deal
Savoie and Philp could come in together at under 2

Do those things alone, with nothing else, and you can accrue a bit of space with a 21 man roster.
I do also have time for Perry if he feels he can still go.

Cap difficulties

I wouldn't be surprised if the team wants to keep Frederick but that could cost around 4m.

Unless we win the cup, there's no way we are rocking that same tandem again. An upgrade will cost money.

Obviously a top 6 forward addition, and a star one at that, is the dream, but as we can see above, money is tight.

Cap Solutions

1) It might be time to see if there's a taker for Nurse at 7m. We'd likely need to sign a 4-5m dman to replace him. If this can happen, Cap savings of 2-3m
2) I feel like there would have to be a taker for Kane at 5m. A buyout would cost 1.3m this year and next. Cap savings of 3.9. IMO not worth it if it's just to make room for Trent.
3) Asking Nuge and/or Arvi to waive. That's if there is even a market for it.
4) See if Bouch would accept 8-8.5 on a 5 year deal. 1-2m in savings.
5) Trade Emberson and find a 1m dman as your 6/7 (assuming he wants 2+)

Honestly, the more I look at it, it would take basically all of those things to happen to bring in an elite player like Marner and upgrade the goaltending :/

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

And take > $20m of cap space with McDavid's extension in the horizon?

The rumors of the Oilers pursuing Rantanen meant that long-term cap was going to move out elsewhere. The easy money's on Bouchard. Where else would it come from?

100%. I thought the same thing

I would like to see how how Bouchard's stats look without McDrai. Everyone keeps quoting the sick GF% but it's with incredible forwards + ekholm.

Without Ekholm, he hasn't been great, and he's needed a baby sitter throughout his career to play well.

 

[McDNicks17]

Only a 52% GF and 56% xGF without McDrai?

Have you seen the rest of the roster? haha

 

[AddyTheWrath]

And take > $20m of cap space with McDavid's extension in the horizon?

The rumors of the Oilers pursuing Rantanen meant that long-term cap was going to move out elsewhere. The easy money's on Bouchard. Where else would it come from?

With the cap ballooning up over the next few years? Absolutely.

You take money away from other positions (Arvidsson and Kane give you 9M on their own, which should cover Bouchard). You don’t take it from the hardest position to find in hockey.

 

[McShogun99]

Going out on a limb here and saying it’s going to be the same 14M Drai signed for

I think that also. He knows that him and Draisaitl are equals plus they both want to win so I think he takes the discount.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I was listening to GYB this evening and Rishaug was saying that the Oilers were close, really close, to landing Rantanen and coming to terms on a contract that was even bigger than the Dallas contract but Carolina liked Stankoven more than the Oilers pieces (assuming that Savoie or O'Reilly was the main piece). I think that's a major bullet dodged not only emptying the farm for Rantanen but paying him franchise money until he's in his late 30s, a guy who I personally am not that impressed with at even strength. Whew

 

[brentashton]

I think that also. He knows that him and Draisaitl are equals plus they both want to win so I think he takes the discount.

Before the cap increase, sure. But not now. The PA will look for some amt of separation and with the cap going up, even 2 sheets more to 97, makes enough variance. Connor doesn’t appear to be greedy but he’s never been one to “settle” neither. I’m sure even he recognizes how the oilers have pissed away money and his future. He isn’t signing another 8 year contract, he’s gonna make sure he gets a decent number, within reason.

 

[CupofOil]

As nice as Marner or Bennett would be, Oilers have to utilize that cap and get a goalie. Skinner is terrible. No matter who we get, we will never win or out score our problems (Skinner) come playoff time.

Zero interest in Marner, less than zero. Bennett I'd have a lot of time for but that's going to be a big contract as well and an instant overpay.
However, with the Oilers almost landing Rantanen, it does appear that they'll probably take another big swing this summer. I'm not sure where the cap space is coming from so I'll be fascinated to see what transpires.

 

[brentashton]

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I was listening to GYB this evening and Rishaug was saying that the Oilers were close, really close, to landing Rantanen and coming to terms on a contract that was even bigger than the Dallas contract but Carolina liked Stankoven more than the Oilers pieces (assuming that Savoie or O'Reilly was the main piece). I think that's a major bullet dodged not only emptying the farm for Rantanen but paying him franchise money until he's in his late 30s, a guy who I personally am not that impressed with at even strength. Whew

It was a larger contract value to compensate for the additional taxation for all these great government services we get here.

 

[Bumblebee Man]

Not necessarily a star defenseman, but there are a lot of recent examples of competitive teams moving valued contributors to maneuver the cap and extend their competitive windows.

The reason it makes sense is that we've seen our PP run smoothly in past seasons with Barrie and Klefbom in that QB role. I don't think it's out of the question that you could find top four option on the UFA or trade market for a fraction of the AAV to pick up a big chunk of those minutes.

You also have to factor in the kind of impact that an elite two-way winger of Marner's caliber could have on the team's ability to push the offensive play. I think Toronto has done a decent job of that without a Bouchard caliber puck mover.

Marner at $12m instead of Bouchard at $9m+ could be a decent trade off.

All we need is a winger who understands how to deflect a puck on net consistently.

Bouchards bad season wouldn't look as bad with an extra 20 points right now...and make no mistake, he's atleast been robbed of 20 points by players who can't put stick to puck.

Burns has racked in the points by doing just that..shooting for tips.

 

[LTIR]

Hopefully Bouchard agrees to 8M per.
Unless we win the cup Bouchards screwup would likely be big reasons why we didn't and that should factor into his new deal. If we do win the cup you give him his 10M and fill rest of the roster with league min players

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Zero interest in Marner, less than zero.

Why?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I was listening to GYB this evening and Rishaug was saying that the Oilers were close, really close, to landing Rantanen and coming to terms on a contract that was even bigger than the Dallas contract but Carolina liked Stankoven more than the Oilers pieces (assuming that Savoie or O'Reilly was the main piece). I think that's a major bullet dodged not only emptying the farm for Rantanen but paying him franchise money until he's in his late 30s, a guy who I personally am not that impressed with at even strength. Whew

7th in even strength points in the last 5 combined seasons

 

[MessierII]

Why?

Undersized, soft, will command over 13 million, not much of a playoff track record.