Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Murray = Depth D, Do We Add Depth Up Front?

[Bryanbryoil]

Or do we stand pat, see what we have in Holloway and Bourgault before working the waiver wire in preseason?

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[SwedishFire]

The cap is over the top, but yes, IF I know Holland correctly, There Will be one more vet added

I wonder even if MacLeod even will be resigned, or even traded.

If Pulju and Fogele goes Outlook, There ofC will be room for a vet and MacLeod. I like that center detta. McDacid, Leon, Nuge, MacLeod.
Dont like the Winger depth.

 

[duul]

Bring Virtanen on PTO, move Foegele for scraps.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Bring Virtanen on PTO, move Foegele for scraps.

Pretty sure if it was an option ot would have already happened by now. I've been saying this since mid-June. Teams don't acquire 2.75m bottom-6 forwards when they can just sign in free agency for <1m

 

[McDNicks17]

If another player goes on LTIR then the LTIR pool increases.

The way this one is worded the only way this would hurt is if the Oilers didn't have enough room in the Performance bonus pool to call someone up. The Performance and LTIR pools are separate.

Say they were at 6 million for performance bonuses on the roster. Then they wanted to call someone up due to injury (LTIR), but the possible performance bonus was 500k.

The team could absorb the cap hit if it was equal to or less than the player on LTIR (floating LTIR), but not the performance bonus. They couldn't call the player up in that example because it exceeded the 7.5% allotted.

It sounds like the LTIR relief is split into salary and performance bonus relief depending on how the LTIR'd players contract is structured.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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LTIR relief comes in the form of two values: a salary relief pool, and a performance bonus relief pool.

These pools are determined the day the player is placed on LTIR. The salary relief pool is the player’s averaged salary excluding performance bonuses (their cap hit value). The performance bonus relief is the player’s total performance bonuses for this season (games played, A and B bonuses), regardless of if they are still achievable

That performance bonus relief pool is separate from the bonus cushion you calculate at the end of the season for overages. The 7.5% part is calculated at the end of the season, but the performance bonus part of LTIR is calculated when a player is recalled.

How does a team use the base salary and performance bonus relief pools?

As explained above, two pools are created when a player is placed on LTIR, a salary pool, and a performance bonus pool. If recalling a player would result in the team exceeding the ACSL, the team must have enough relief in the necessary pools. Only the players achievable performance bonuses are considered when they are recalled, for example, if a player has an 82 games played performance bonus of $500,000, and it is impossible for them to achieve those 82 games, the $500,000 performance bonus is no longer considered.

The following must be met to recall the player:

1. Players with no performance bonuses
   If a player has no performance bonuses, the team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit (annual averaged salary excluding performance bonuses).

2. Players with performance bonuses​

   The team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit. After the salary relief pool has been considered, the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season (the player’s achievable performance bonuses can come out of both the salary and performance bonus pool).

Recalling Holloway/Broberg would exceed the ACSL(since they'll be over it all season), so they would need the necessary space in both pools to recall them. Since neither Klefbom or Smith have any performance bonuses, the team's LTIR performance bonus relief pool is $0. They would then have to use their salary relief pool to cover the bonuses which would basically make their cap hit their salary + bonuses.

The bonuses probably rollover under the 7.5% part, but how this rule is worded, they need the space at the time of the recall. For Broberg, that's an extra $850k on his cap hit. $500k for Holloway. That's going to be a pretty big deal with how close they are to their upper limit.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

It sounds like the LTIR relief is split into salary and performance bonus relief depending on how the LTIR'd players contract is structured.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

That performance bonus relief pool is separate from the bonus cushion you calculate at the end of the season for overages. The 7.5% part is calculated at the end of the season, but the performance bonus part of LTIR is calculated when a player is recalled.

​

Recalling Holloway/Broberg would exceed the ACSL(since they'll be over it all season), so they would need the necessary space in both pools to recall them. Since neither Klefbom or Smith have any performance bonuses, the team's LTIR performance bonus relief pool is $0. They would then have to use their salary relief pool to cover the bonuses which would basically make their cap hit their salary + bonuses.

The bonuses probably rollover under the 7.5% part, but how this rule is worded, they need the space at the time of the recall. For Broberg, that's an extra $850k on his cap hit. $500k for Holloway. That's going to be a pretty big deal with how close they are to their upper limit.

They use the term salary for cap hit which muddies things, but WE know cap hit and salary are different. They are also not very clear.

I'm pretty sure it says...

At the time of recall, if they have no performance bonuses you use rule 1.

If the player has performance bonuses you use rule 2.

"After the salary relief pool has been considered,..."

So after the cap hit is calculated.

"the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool..."

The team can then use the Performance bonus pool (7.5%) or the Salary pool (LTIR/Cap Space) or some of both.

"must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season."

So the space in those two pools must be greater than Holloways potential performance bonuses.

If Holloway starts the season here his performance bonuses count against that 7.5% because of the over-the-cap LTIR. If he is sent down then his cap hit and the performance bonus pool will receive a credit.

If he is recalled then his cap hit counts against the cap AND THEN his potential bonuses are counted and can be covered by the 7.5% or Cap space. The Oilers have no cap space so...

In the event the team is over the cap due to LTIR, then the potential bonuses must be applied to the 7.5% pool and carried over to the following season.

 

[McDNicks17]

They use the term salary for cap hit which muddies things, but WE know cap hit and salary are different. They are also not very clear.

I'm pretty sure it says...

At the time of recall, if they have no performance bonuses you use rule 1.

If the player has performance bonuses you use rule 2.

"After the salary relief pool has been considered,..."

So after the cap hit is calculated.

"the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool..."

The team can then use the Performance bonus pool (7.5%) or the Salary pool (LTIR/Cap Space) or some of both.

"must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season."

So the space in those two pools must be greater than Holloways potential performance bonuses.

If Holloway starts the season here his performance bonuses count against that 7.5% because of the over-the-cap LTIR. If he is sent down then his cap hit and the performance bonus pool will receive a credit.

If he is recalled then his cap hit counts against the cap AND THEN his potential bonuses are counted and can be covered by the 7.5% or Cap space. The Oilers have no cap space so...

In the event the team is over the cap due to LTIR, then the potential bonuses must be applied to the 7.5% pool and carried over to the following season.

I still think you’re combining two separate things, but this stuff is so confusing.

The 7.5% cushion is called the Performance Bonus Cushion, so I think they’re strictly talking about the performance bonus relief pool that is created by the LTIR’d player.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

Wow, people on the mains are - more or less - positive about the Murray signing. Someone even called it smart. I am not accustomed to seeing such reactions regarding moves by our Oilers. Has me liking the signing.

edit: As I pointed out on the mains, I still wish the Oilers would find a little more truculence for the back end.

 

[Broberg Speed]

If a trade isn't in the works we'll start the season with an additional player on the LTIR. Don't be skeptical, a dozen teams, potentially more, will be adding one or more supplementary players to the LTIR, above and beyond those players which are already listed.

We've entered the age of the "new normal" where you have been habituated to aggrandize suspension of disbelief whilst dulling critical reasoning abilities with each passing day. Most are capable of doing so with hardly a peep.

 

[Mr Sakich]

If a trade isn't in the works we'll start the season with an additional player on the LTIR. Don't be skeptical, a dozen teams, potentially more, will be adding one or more supplementary players to the LTIR, above and beyond those players which are already listed.

We've entered the age of the "new normal" where you have been habituated to aggrandize suspension of disbelief whilst dulling critical reasoning abilities with each passing day. Most are capable of doing so with hardly a peep.

In some unrelated news, the Oilers have hired Shane Stant to be part of their medical staff. Weird thing is that he reports directly to the salary cap administrator

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

In some unrelated news, the Oilers have hired Shane Stant to be part of their medical staff. Weird thing is that he reports directly to the salary cap administrator.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I still think you’re combining two separate things, but this stuff is so confusing.

The 7.5% cushion is called the Performance Bonus Cushion, so I think they’re strictly talking about the performance bonus relief pool that is created by the LTIR’d player.

The way I read that part is if a player has potential bonuses and goes on LTIR, then the potential bonuses are forgiven from the 7.5% pool while he's injured, just like his cap hit. It is meant to help a team and young/old players, not hurt them or seclude them. That way if a rookie is hurt, he can be replaced with another rookie or older bonus-laden player.

Under the "he needs to be here at the beginning of the season." scenario, that could never happen. If Holloway was hurt, he couldn't be replaced with another rookie because of the other rookies potential bonuses. Sounds unlikely.

The burden of proof is still on those who made the claim. I wasn't sure and had some time so I wandered out and tried to prove that statement true. I couldn't. You posted another link. It didn't prove it.

It actually said the opposite. That if a team was capped out then the potential bonuses must be added to the 7.5% pool and then charged to the cap the following year if met.

If a team does not have room for those potential bonuses in their cap space or the 7.5% potential bonus cushion (combined), then the player cannot be called up.

The Oilers are not that high in potential bonuses, are they?

 

[McDNicks17]

The way I read that part is if a player has potential bonuses and goes on LTIR, then the potential bonuses are forgiven from the 7.5% pool while he's injured, just like his cap hit. It is meant to help a team and young/old players, not hurt them or seclude them. That way if a rookie is hurt, he can be replaced with another rookie or older bonus-laden player.

Under the "he needs to be here at the beginning of the season." scenario, that could never happen. If Holloway was hurt, he couldn't be replaced with another rookie because of the other rookies potential bonuses. Sounds unlikely.

The burden of proof is still on those who made the claim. I wasn't sure and had some time so I wandered out and tried to prove that statement true. I couldn't. You posted another link. It didn't prove it.

It actually said the opposite. That if a team was capped out then the potential bonuses must be added to the 7.5% pool and then charged to the cap the following year if met.

If a team does not have room for those potential bonuses in their cap space or the 7.5% potential bonus cushion (combined), then the player cannot be called up.

The Oilers are not that high in potential bonuses, are they?

I think what I found does explain it. I might post it over on the business board when I get home from work and see what the CBA experts say.

I feel like you’re getting confused by adding the 7.5% cushion into the conversation when it doesn’t really have anything to do with what I linked.

Everything is paid out the same. It just comes down to simply needing enough LTIR room for the player’s cap hit and bonuses at the time of the recall. Normally that wouldn’t be a big deal, but every penny counts this year.

 

[Tarus]

Wow, people on the mains are - more or less - positive about the Murray signing. Someone even called it smart. I am not accustomed to seeing such reactions regarding moves by our Oilers. Has me liking the signing.

edit: As I pointed out on the mains, I still wish the Oilers would find a little more truculence for the back end.

That's usually a sign they think the Oilers made a move to get worse.

 

[McSuper]

In some unrelated news, the Oilers have hired Shane Stant to be part of their medical staff. Weird thing is that he reports directly to the salary cap administrator

Smart move. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[brentashton]

I listed to Ryan Murray on Reid Wilkins podcast this morning during my run. Nothing odd about the interview, mostly the generic, run of the mill stuff that you hear in many NHL a player interviews…but…at the end he said something that was either just his way of saying he’s coming to camp or I’m reading too much into it.

Reid asked him when he was coming to town to start skating and meet some of the players and he said in a few a days and that he needed to get here, start skating and “get into shape”!! WTF?

Maybe I’m wearing tin foil and am paranoid, but I’d think you come here already in shape and you come early to get on the ice to get a feel for things, pace and a jump on training camp.

The days of coming to camp to get in shape stopped in 1985, Ryan Murray. I wasn’t impressed with that. I hope it was a nervous slip of the tongue. I guess we will see in the first few days of camp whether he’s getting in shape or came prepared and ready to compete for a spot.

 

[fuswald]

That's usually a sign they think the Oilers made a move to get worse.

Used to be a move to get worse. It feels odd all the at least decent moves made in the last few years. Almost expecting to trade and trade and trade to end up with nothing. Or pick up a free agent that gets much worse (or sucked already)

I'm loving it and get excited anticipating signings. No longer in fear.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I listed to Ryan Murray on Reid Wilkins podcast this morning during my run. Nothing odd about the interview, mostly the generic, run of the mill stuff that you hear in many NHL a player interviews…but…at the end he said something that was either just his way of saying he’s coming to camp or I’m reading too much into it.

Reid asked him when he was coming to town to start skating and meet some of the players and he said in a few a days and that he needed to get here, start skating and “get into shape”!! WTF?

Maybe I’m wearing tin foil and am paranoid, but I’d think you come here already in shape and you come early to get on the ice to get a feel for things, pace and a jump on training camp.

The days of coming to camp to get in shape stopped in 1985, Ryan Murray. I wasn’t impressed with that. I hope it was a nervous slip of the tongue. I guess we will see in the first few days of camp whether he’s getting in shape or came prepared and ready to compete for a spot.

An NHLer's version of 'getting into shape' might be quite different to the everyman. He might be in fantastic shape physically but needs to skate around with other NHLers to be in 'game shape'.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

An NHLer's version of 'getting into shape' might be quite different to the everyman. He might be in fantastic shape physically but needs to skate around with other NHLers to be in 'game shape'.

This is definitely what he meant by that. I saw an interview of him on youtube a few days before the signing. He said his body was feeling great and he had been working out all summer. He is ready to go, just needs to get up to nhl speed.

I'm wondering if this Murray signing increase the possibility that Barrie gets dealt before the season or shortly there after. I think Murray likely fills the role of third pairing vet that can play in the top four in a pinch. I think he makes a far better partner for Broberg then Barrie did. I'm also hearing the Barrie to Montreal rumors here and there. I'm not sure how legit they are but it seems like the obvious move to free up cap space in order to bring in some meat for the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[belair]

This is definitely what he meant by that. I saw an interview of him on youtube a few days before the signing. He said his body was feeling great and he had been working out all summer. He is ready to go, just needs to get up to nhl speed.

I'm wondering if this Murray signing increase the possibility that Barrie gets dealt before the season or shortly there after. I think Murray likely fills the role of third pairing vet that can play in the top four in a pinch. I think he makes a far better partner for Broberg then Barrie did. I'm also hearing the Barrie to Montreal rumors here and there. I'm not sure how legit they are but it seems like the obvious move to free up cap space in order to bring in some meat for the 3rd or 4th line.

No. It's not even guaranteed Murray is a regular in the lineup at this point. He's ahead of Koekkoek in the pecking order on LD. Barrie and Kulak are likely partners like they were for much of the playoffs.

If there's money moving out, best money is on Foegele whose minutes could easily be replaced by one of the younger forwards.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I listed to Ryan Murray on Reid Wilkins podcast this morning during my run. Nothing odd about the interview, mostly the generic, run of the mill stuff that you hear in many NHL a player interviews…but…at the end he said something that was either just his way of saying he’s coming to camp or I’m reading too much into it.

Reid asked him when he was coming to town to start skating and meet some of the players and he said in a few a days and that he needed to get here, start skating and “get into shape”!! WTF?

Maybe I’m wearing tin foil and am paranoid, but I’d think you come here already in shape and you come early to get on the ice to get a feel for things, pace and a jump on training camp.

The days of coming to camp to get in shape stopped in 1985, Ryan Murray. I wasn’t impressed with that. I hope it was a nervous slip of the tongue. I guess we will see in the first few days of camp whether he’s getting in shape or came prepared and ready to compete for a spot.

Being in shape and being in skating shape are two different things

 

[brentashton]

Being in shape and being in skating shape are two different things

No arguments. Just a weird choice of words and start date to begin skating if so. I bet many players have been on the ice for the last 4-6 weeks. A neighbor of ours at the cabin used to play for the Flames and then the Leafs. Nearest ice was one hour away. He and his bro, a career minor leaguer, made the trip 3x a week starting in mid July, in addition to the cardio and weight work they did in their garage.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

No. It's not even guaranteed Murray is a regular in the lineup at this point. He's ahead of Koekkoek in the pecking order on LD. Barrie and Kulak are likely partners like they were for much of the playoffs.

If there's money moving out, best money is on Foegele whose minutes could easily be replaced by one of the younger forwards.

I think a lot can happen between now and the start of the season and both Barrie and Foegele probably have to be looking over their shoulders. If you have Barrie/Kulak as a pair then that is your second pairing or you are running Broberg in the top 4 right off the bat, paired with Ceci or Bouch. I'm not sure I think either option is great. It's likely better to shelter Broberg in the bottom pair and Barrie is a bit soft in his own end so it's a bit sketchy having him in the top 4.

I think we are going to find that Murray is one of our better defensive dmen and from what I understand he is capable of playing both sides as can Broberg. It will be interesting to see how things play out in training camp but things can change quickly. I'd be up for trading Foegele as well but we don't have a lot of meat in the forward group at all. He is at least a big body that will play somewhat physical. I think they are really lacking up front in the physicality department.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

No arguments. Just a weird choice of words and start date to begin skating if so. I bet many players have been on the ice for the last 4-6 weeks. A neighbor of ours at the cabin used to play for the Flames and then the Leafs. Nearest ice was one hour away. He and his bro, a career minor leaguer, made the trip 3x a week starting in mid July, in addition to the cardio and weight work they did in their garage.

Fair, you may be reading too much into it or he might not actually be ready.

We’ll know shortly, he has played at a top 4 level or usage wise all years except last year when healthy.

No risk signing him

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I listed to Ryan Murray on Reid Wilkins podcast this morning during my run. Nothing odd about the interview, mostly the generic, run of the mill stuff that you hear in many NHL a player interviews…but…at the end he said something that was either just his way of saying he’s coming to camp or I’m reading too much into it.

Reid asked him when he was coming to town to start skating and meet some of the players and he said in a few a days and that he needed to get here, start skating and “get into shape”!! WTF?

Maybe I’m wearing tin foil and am paranoid, but I’d think you come here already in shape and you come early to get on the ice to get a feel for things, pace and a jump on training camp.

The days of coming to camp to get in shape stopped in 1985, Ryan Murray. I wasn’t impressed with that. I hope it was a nervous slip of the tongue. I guess we will see in the first few days of camp whether he’s getting in shape or came prepared and ready to compete for a spot.

Cut the guy some slack, he was probably in a body cast all summer.