Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Forwards & Goaltending Under a Microscope, Which Bottom 6 Forwards Do You Keep?

[Ritchie Valens]

A guy I work with sent me an instagram post from an account called “Oilers Prime” and they’re saying the Oilers are going to skid Schwartz, but the source they cited is “the mug NHL”. Sounds like a pretty unreliable source but was just wondering if any of our plugged-in members have heard the same.

 

[CupofOil]

lol Arvidsson would never get a 1st+. When he was better he was traded for a 2nd and a 3rd.

If the Oilers get anything positive for Arvidsson without retaining I'd consider that a win. Anything like a 4th rounder or higher would be a steal

 

[McDoused]

Imo the focus up front should be size in the top 6 and having guys that can win in the dirty areas to open up ice for McDavid and RNH, while the bottom 6 is built around speed and 2 way play, with a healthy pinch of skill.

Personally I don't get the rationale behind trading Kane:

• Is he as good as he was? No.
• Is he still an effective top 6 talent, who brings a unicorn skillset? Yes.
• Do you think you can find better value out there at 5mil? I don't.
• Would I bet on a UFA-to-be Kane being super motivated to have a big year? Hell yes.

I'd just staple Kane to McDavid at evens for the year, and wish him well at the end of the year as he chases the biggest bag he can get.

I also think the bottom 6 should be fairly close to being set. Podz worked well with both Kapanen and Arvidsson on his opposite wing, and I think that's a natural spot for Savoie. Plunk Uncle Rico between the 2 kids and I can see that as the basis for a nice 3rd line.

As for the 4th line: Just move Janmark back to wing, give Philp a proper look at C, and sign a RW that can skate like the wing, PK, and play somewhat physical; all on a cheap deal. (in other words, just re-sign Kapanen). Finally sign a decent C/W option at the 13th forward, who skate, PK, and also not get completely embarrassed in the faceoff dot (Lazar being my favourite fit).

Frederic-McDavid-Kane
RNH-Draisaitl-Hyman
Podkolzin-Henrique-Savoie
Janmark-Philp-Kapanen
Lazar

• I have Frederic starting on the top line, but he's an easy guy to shift around the lineup depending on who's hot and not. You could swap him with anyone on the 3rd line, and still have both lines make sense.
• Most key roles have several players that can fill them (biggest being Rico is not you're only 3C option, and Hyman has some non-geriatric backup in the PF role).
• Also for the first time in a while you'd get some actual mileage out of several value contracts.

I agreed that McDavid and Draisaitl don't like to go into the dirty areas and want guys that can get them the puck. Its just a hard to have so many complimentary guys when injuries happen to key ones. We need guys that can step up into that top 6 role (Skinner and Arvidsson were supposed to be that answer).

The problem with getting those guys for their wing, (that next level of depth) is that when Knoblauch goes tbe nuclear option it makes it harder to role a second line. Fortunately this year when it happened, Kane-RNH-Hyman were fantastic. They were one of the best lines we had. Unfortunately both nuge and Hyman were injured so it ended up just being McDrai. Knoblauch incorrectly turned to them for a spark but ended up exposing the rest of the team.

 

[M Ace]

Go sign Joel Hofer for $4,680,076 wich is a 2nd round pick only. But I think Doug Armstrong's gonna match but it will be a statement from last summers fiasco with Holloway & Broberg.

 

[CupofOil]

Bottom line, Savoie ain’t gonna do it. If that’s the idea to move the Oilers forward for next season, yikes.

This is just as bad as those who overhype prospects, saying that he's not going to be any good before he even plays a game.

The truth is in the middle somewhere. I have an idea for everybody, lets see him play some NHL games before declaring him as the solution or that he ain't gonna do it.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Imo the focus up front should be size in the top 6 and having guys that can win in the dirty areas to open up ice for McDavid and RNH, while the bottom 6 is built around speed and 2 way play, with a healthy pinch of skill.

Personally I don't get the rationale behind trading Kane:

• Is he as good as he was? No.
• Is he still an effective top 6 talent, who brings a unicorn skillset? Yes.
• Do you think you can find better value out there at 5mil? I don't.
• Would I bet on a UFA-to-be Kane being super motivated to have a big year? Hell yes.

I'd just staple Kane to McDavid at evens for the year, and wish him well at the end of the year as he chases the biggest bag he can get.

I also think the bottom 6 should be fairly close to being set. Podz worked well with both Kapanen and Arvidsson on his opposite wing, and I think that's a natural spot for Savoie. Plunk Uncle Rico between the 2 kids and I can see that as the basis for a nice 3rd line.

As for the 4th line: Just move Janmark back to wing, give Philp a proper look at C, and sign a RW that can skate like the wing, PK, and play somewhat physical; all on a cheap deal. (in other words, just re-sign Kapanen). Finally sign a decent C/W option at the 13th forward, who skate, PK, and also not get completely embarrassed in the faceoff dot (Lazar being my favourite fit).

Frederic-McDavid-Kane
RNH-Draisaitl-Hyman
Podkolzin-Henrique-Savoie
Janmark-Philp-Kapanen
Lazar

• I have Frederic starting on the top line, but he's an easy guy to shift around the lineup depending on who's hot and not. You could swap him with anyone on the 3rd line, and still have both lines make sense.
• Most key roles have several players that can fill them (biggest being Rico is not you're only 3C option, and Hyman has some non-geriatric backup in the PF role).
• Also for the first time in a while you'd get some actual mileage out of several value contracts.

Kane is gone

 

[North]

Go sign Joel Hofer for $4,680,076 wich is a 2nd round pick only. But I think Doug Armstrong's gonna match but it will be a statement from last summers fiasco with Holloway & Broberg.

Sign him to a one year offer sheet at that price so he has to go into next summer looking at extensions for Holloway, Broberg, and Hofer.

 

[LTIR]

I like some of the suggestions here for building depth. The biggest roadblock is Knob. He did a horrible job in the regular season with line combinations and it kicked his ass in the finals. His go to- 97/29 together and they got shut the f*** down.

My solution- split up 93-97-18. Move 93 down to Draisaitl. They have had success before. You need a third line that can score when McDavid and Draisaitl can’t. Frederic is already signed. I like the Cody Glass suggestion a few have spoken about. Mason Appleton is another. I like Anthony Beauvillier (sp), and Adam Gaudette. All can be had decent tickets. Another poster suggested Victor Olaufson (sp). He’d be a cheap add. Brandon Saad is also a Bowman favourite and adds experience. Janmark, Brown, Henrique, Kane, Arvidsson all need to be out. Brown is easy- don’t re-sign him. Henrique/Kane/Arvidsson moved out and Janmark down to the farm (please tell me he didn’t get a NMC).

You run pairs- like all other teams

X- McDavid- Hyman
Nuge- Drai - X
Appleton/Saad - Frederic - Gaudette/beauvillier
Podz - Philp- Kap.

Savoie, Saad, Olaufson (sp) can fill in the top 2 lines. This is essentially adding cheaper, faster, more productive depth. The team doesn’t need a 50 goal scorer- just need 15-18 goal scorers throughout the line up. No more 2 goal janmarks taking up spots.

Knoblauch's in game adjustments are one of his bigger strengths and are a huge reason why we won back to back conference championships.
Get him a true starting goalie and Dmen that aren't sub par , injured, over the hill or just dumb and he will do better. Get him a 3C or 4C that isnt a passenger and top 6 wingers who aren't Perry, Kapanene, Podkolzin.

 

[Pip]

Big focus needs to be getting 2 new goalies. I’m fine with Pickard down in the AHL as the #3 but they need 2 new guys. I have zero time for any discussion about having a guy tandem with Stu. They already ran back the worst tandem in the league and need to clean house.

Up front I don’t think they are going to be able to do much unless they dump significant cap. Might make sense to give some internal/cheap options a shot and save for the deadline where forwards are easier to acquire.

Give Savoie a proper shot and see what you have, then replace him at the deadline if he doesn’t work out.

 

[MessierII]

Go sign Joel Hofer for $4,680,076 wich is a 2nd round pick only. But I think Doug Armstrong's gonna match but it will be a statement from last summers fiasco with Holloway & Broberg.

I don’t think the guy is worth that much as sweet as it would be to screw them

 

[Canovin]

Sign him to a one year offer sheet at that price so he has to go into next summer looking at extensions for Holloway, Broberg, and Hofer.

That would be hilarious but at the same time, St. Louis has 40M in cap space next year followed by 70M the other year. They're a good situation cap wise. Not only does it not hurt them, they can add big fishes too. I would trade for Hofer instead. Stuart with 50% retention and 3rd for Hofer

With that said, I personally prefer Blomqvist. He's the next Dostal IMO

 

[M Ace]

That would be hilarious but at the same time, St. Louis has 40M in cap space next year followed by 70M the other year. They're a good situation cap wise. Not only does it not hurt them, they can add big fishes too. I would trade for Hofer instead. Stuart with 50% retention and 3rd for Hofer

With that said, I personally prefer Blomqvist. He's the next Dostal IMO

Hofer is a RFA so we only trade for his rights!

 

[LTIR]

The Buffallo situation is interesting. Its that they don't want picks and prospects, even with the value of a top 5 pick. They want immediate help. However, it just doesn't work that way. You need to sell assets and then flip those picks for new assets. It sounds like they cant retool on the fly and aren't creative enough to get a guy with term that might want to stay in Buffalo.

Maybe they'll take Henrique, Kane, Ekholm, Kulak etc then

 

[Drivesaitl]

I just think its crazy how dead the rumors and trades thread was before we lost. You don't blowup a team or make big decisions moments after an emotional loss like that. Now everyone seems to know the answer (which is basically whatever their previous prejudice was) they can just blame Bouchard, Skinner, Kane, Ekholm, Arvidsson or whoever else you want and it appears that everyone should go.

I get it, fans are emotional and are hurting. They want to see changes but I can't believe how much everyone is over reacting and how the sky is falling. Bowman was right in his presser, 30 other teams would love to trade to be in our position.

You would think we missed the playoffs with how much negativity is on here. We still have a good team and I think fans are going to go crazy when they see what the new cap market is going to look like.

We led only 33mins of the whole final series. The Panthers led 255mins of the series. We didn't even get one regulation W, we couldn't beat them without OT, and one of the games on a fluke own goal. This was as bad as the AV's sweep years ago. I agree with others that we were closer last season. Winning the first game this year gave the illusion of something else but it was dispelled by game 2 and 3 and the rest.

We lost several good players and prospects after last season that were all better than most of what we brought in. The team signed Arvid and Skinner a year ago and nobody even wants them now. The players were never going to work here which I said from the start.

This org has limited ability to obtain what it needs. It committed the cardinal sin of losing its prospects and developing players.

The thing is the old vet move was a desperate moonshot designed to take a cup this season. Ultimately we failed and lost our futures players. .

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is where I disagree. If you look at all of the analysts prior to the start of the finals or even 4 games in, everyone was saying that this version of the Oilers was better than last year's.

Its those final 2 blowout games that really stick with us. IMO, we were better situated this year than last year. Unfortunately, so was Florida. A big part of the problem last year was that guys like Foegele, McLeod and Broberg (no longer here) and Janmark/Brown were useless the first 3 series but helped in the finals. This year no one was able to step up.

The core of this team isn't very old. A lot of guys are still in their prime. Should we just not sign Perry so we arent the oldest team anymore? Savoie will step in next year and the Oilers are trying to add some speed and youth into the lineup. However that's not why we lost. Adding rookies for the sake of it isn't worth it.

Look at other contenders prospects. Out of Florida, Edmonton, Dallas, Colorado, etc. we've actually done a pretty good job finding some guys like Savoie, O'Reilly, Akey, Berezkin, etc. as well as young free agents like Hutson, Samanski and Lappanen.

We've literally gone to 1 game and 2 games of winning it all. Its more than a bounce or two but its also not possible that with a few changes were right back in the finals with better depth and goaltending. We need to change it up similar to how Florida changed coaches and improved after winning the presidents trophy in 2022.

We didn't luck into back to back finals.

Final two blowouts? The Panthers led by 3 or more goals at some point in all the last 4 GP. It wasn't just two. We were blown out of the water and the most onesided SC final loss we've had since 1983.

 

[commie]

This is where I disagree. If you look at all of the analysts prior to the start of the finals or even 4 games in, everyone was saying that this version of the Oilers was better than last year's.

Its those final 2 blowout games that really stick with us. IMO, we were better situated this year than last year. Unfortunately, so was Florida. A big part of the problem last year was that guys like Foegele, McLeod and Broberg (no longer here) and Janmark/Brown were useless the first 3 series but helped in the finals. This year no one was able to step up.

The core of this team isn't very old. A lot of guys are still in their prime. Should we just not sign Perry so we arent the oldest team anymore? Savoie will step in next year and the Oilers are trying to add some speed and youth into the lineup. However that's not why we lost. Adding rookies for the sake of it isn't worth it.

Look at other contenders prospects. Out of Florida, Edmonton, Dallas, Colorado, etc. we've actually done a pretty good job finding some guys like Savoie, O'Reilly, Akey, Berezkin, etc. as well as young free agents like Hutson, Samanski and Lappanen.

We've literally gone to 1 game and 2 games of winning it all. Its more than a bounce or two but its also not possible that with a few changes were right back in the finals with better depth and goaltending. We need to change it up similar to how Florida changed coaches and improved after winning the presidents trophy in 2022.

We didn't luck into back to back finals.

I agree with this assessment. This year's team was better than last years for sure, especially at 5v5. Unfortunately the special teams was much worse this year. The powerplay was suppose to be there strength didn't show up in critical situations where they could've pulled ahead by 2 goals or more.
Then there is the PK, most of the year it's been bad, but the finals, especially the first 4 games, was horrible.
The first 3 games, every infraction was called, so many pp opportunities for both teams, and only one team took advantage of the situation. Knob probably told his players to tone down their physicality afraid of taking more dumb penalties.

Priority #2 after figuring out the goalie situation, has to be figuring out their PK, whether that is bringing in a new coach and/or players that can kill a penalty. And definitely don't use McDavid on the PK as a regular rotation, he got scored on too often. Use him only as a change of pace on the PK.
Very noticable in how the game changed from 1-3 and 4-6, penalties weren't being called as much, and Oilers weren't as physical anymore, while the Panthers was business as usual.

 

[Canovin]

Hofer is a RFA so we only trade for his rights!

The Oilers can sign him to something cheaper than 4.6M

 

[Drivesaitl]

IMO our PK is flawed on a fundamental level and cause of that I'm not sure how wise it is to draw sweeping conclusions from results (particularly PK results which is a fairly small sample in Kapanen's case). The way I see it is our starting goalie Skinner has well below average side to side movement and our D in general, but particularly Nurse has trouble neutralizing low cross seam passes and as a result we transitioned to a highly aggressive and chase heavy PK system to reduce the time we give to find those high danger openings. Cause of our PK being chase heavy the faster forwards tend to get better results, which I don't think speaks to inherently being better PKers, they just give less time and space to exploit a critical weakness.

If we moved away from Skinner as our starter and either trade Nurse ideally or remove him from all PK duties we might be able to run a more traditional PK set up and could see other players thriving more in a system that is less reliant on pure skating speed.

----------------------------------------------------

Then just speaking to Kapanen I still don't like the player, I'll tip my hat to him for a spirited playoffs, he came in hot and gave it his all, but at a fundamental level I don't trust him, there are moments where he makes the most braindead high risk plays even when there is little payoff to completing them successfully and often easy low risk secondary options available. While many players make the odd braindead decision I find Kapanen's to come without warning and in the worst spots, it really doesn't matter if he is having a great or a bad game, it can happen at any time, where as most other players will have on or off nights and you can adjust your expectations (and minutes) and know what to expect.

Secondly and I think most importantly in terms of actual results in the regular season Kapanen had an abysmal 35.1 GF% to Brown's solid 52.9 GF% both with fairly large sample sizes (Kapanen also got an o-zone push where Brown got more D-zone starts). Even though I recognize Kapanen's ability to come in off the bench and potentially play great hockey, if I was GM I wouldn't even attempt to sign him as a 13th forward cause of Knob's penchant for overplaying him. I see Kapanen as fundamentally flawed player that no time investment is likely to fix and who tends to get progressively worse the longer he stays with an org.

How much of the expected goals is due t who the players are playing with or against or situational or usage effects? Connor Brown got better looks on the team and the worst Centers he got were McDavid and Henrique a lot of the time. Kap had more bottomline minutes on some guys bringing essentially nothing.

I just don't see either after a rousing physical belting final where Panthers kicked our ass on the scoreboard and laid us out with hits that no hits Connor Brown is really at all valid. You can only really accept that non even non intangible hockey from a production guy. Not from a guy thats supposed to be an up and down role player and isn't at all. Connor Brown could play games with eggs in his pockets. The least physical player on the whole squad. Doesn't come as advertised at all.

jmo but zero intangibles bottomsix players that are old and constantly beat off pucks and with the worst GVA on the team, They're not really worth having.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree with this assessment. This year's team was better than last years for sure, especially at 5v5. Unfortunately the special teams was much worse this year. The powerplay was suppose to be there strength didn't show up in critical situations where they could've pulled ahead by 2 goals or more.
Then there is the PK, most of the year it's been bad, but the finals, especially the first 4 games, was horrible.
The first 3 games, every infraction was called, so many pp opportunities for both teams, and only one team took advantage of the situation. Knob probably told his players to tone down their physicality afraid of taking more dumb penalties.

Priority #2 after figuring out the goalie situation, has to be figuring out their PK, whether that is bringing in a new coach and/or players that can kill a penalty. And definitely don't use McDavid on the PK as a regular rotation, he got scored on too often. Use him only as a change of pace on the PK.
Very noticable in how the game changed from 1-3 and 4-6, penalties weren't being called as much, and Oilers weren't as physical anymore, while the Panthers was business as usual.

This years team was worse in the standings and worse in the finals. Also worse in the first round and we had troubles even engaging into first round. Without LA screwing up we might have been in more peril. Special teams are part of how you evaluate clubs. I think the problems on pk can be impacted by losing McLeod our best zone out pk player.

Further what players made us better this season? The useless Arvid and J Skinner?

I could see argument that additions of Walman and Klingberg made us better post TDL but we weren't better at all during the brunt of the regular season. We were quite clearly worse.

 

[Canovin]

Stuart+Evander+sweetener for Swayman+Geekie

Drai(14)-McDavid(12.5)-Hyman(5.5)
RNH(5.125)-Geekie(3.5)-Savoie(.9)
Frederic(3.5)-Tomasek(1.2)-Brown(2)
Pods(1)-Janmark(1.45)-Perry(1)
Hutson/Samanski

Ekholm(6)-Bouch(10)
Nurse(9.25)-Kulak(2.75)
Walman(3.4)-Klingberg(2.5)
Stecher(.8)

Swayman(8.25)
Pickard(1)
2.3 Deadcap

 

[McDoused]

Final two blowouts? The Panthers led by 3 or more goals at some point in all the last 4 GP. It wasn't just two. We were blown out of the water and the most onesided SC final loss we've had since 1983.

You can just go on the block list again for a bit. I really cant stand the negativity. The series was tied 2-2. Get over yourself. Go cheer for one of the other 30 teams the Oilers beat.

 

[Drivesaitl]

A legal hit can give anyone a concussion- has nothing to do with height.

But it does. If your head is where most players shoulder is in elevation thats going to factor at some points and with harder epoxy resins in shoulder pads being mechanism of a lot of injuries and concussions now. Like being hit with a sledgehammer.

Also the pure physics of impacts means the object with less mass are going to be the ones flying which only leads to further injury risk. It was a given with the way Yams played he wasn't going to be long for this league or he would change his play, stay out of areas and be completely ineffective.

 

[McDoused]

Maybe they'll take Henrique, Kane, Ekholm, Kulak etc then

I do wonder if Arvidsson would consider going to Buffalo. He could probably get a top 6 role with guys that are desperate for offence. It's only for 1 year and could get flipped to a contender.

 

[Canovin]

I do wonder if Arvidsson would consider going to Buffalo. He could probably get a top 6 role with guys that are desperate for offence. It's only for 1 year and could get flipped to a contender.

Arvid+Akey for Peterka please!

 

[Drivesaitl]

You can just go on the block list again for a bit. I really cant stand the negativity. The series was tied 2-2. Get over yourself. Go cheer for one of the other 30 teams the Oilers beat.

lol the series was tied 2-2 on an own goal OT goal in a game Florida were up 3-0. Should've been 3- 1 at that point and didn't matter as we were never even remotely in the series after that. Panthers walked us 3 of the games. I'm sure you were among the people complaining about that in real time.

I'm different I tried to be positive during the playoffs and final but now IS the time for evaluation and lineup changes and moves as this thread is for. I'm not gonna pretend we were closer. We weren't at all.