Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Forwards & Goaltending Under a Microscope, Which Bottom 6 Forwards Do You Keep?

[McDoused]

We can’t afford to pay Brown 3.

No we cant. But we can afford to pay him 2 like I suggested. Or did you just skip ahead and not read?

 

[McDoused]

What does AFP have Frederic at?

2 years x 3.5M. Which is about right. I don't understand the need to extend that to 8 years. They must think he will breakout with the cap going up.

 

[FlameChampion]

2 years x 3.5M. Which is about right. I don't understand the need to extend that to 8 years. They must think he will breakout with the cap going up.

Yeah I just don’t get the term. Obviously they must think they need to give it to him to sign him. It’s baffling to say the least.

 

[CycloneSweep]

No we cant. But we can afford to pay him 2 like I suggested. Or did you just skip ahead and not read?

We can’t really do that. Can’t afford to spend, what would that be with Frederic and Henrique? 9 mill? For a third line that brings little to none offensively?
Unfortunately this team needs at minimum one more top 6 winger, ideally 2. With our cap structure we can’t pay 9 mill on a 3rd line that’s average defensively and okay offensively.

 

[CycloneSweep]

2 years x 3.5M. Which is about right. I don't understand the need to extend that to 8 years. They must think he will breakout with the cap going up.

I don’t know how much breaking out a 31 would really do

Edit: oops I misread I thought we were talking about Brown. Lost track of the convo.

 

[MessierII]

I don’t know how much breaking out a 31 would really do

Frederic is 27

 

[McDoused]

I don’t know how much breaking out a 31 would really do

Dude I don't know what happened because I really liked to enjoy your posting. Now it's like everything is not just negative but like you aren't even wanting to discuss or debate stuff and making things up.

Frederic is a 1st round pick with solid 5v5 production playing in the bottom 6. I dont think he breakouts like a younger player does but he still might have a other level at 27... not 31?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

oo

What does AFP have Frederic at?

8x $3.5-4

 

[CycloneSweep]

Dude I don't know what happened because I really liked to enjoy your posting. Now it's like everything is not just negative but like you aren't even wanting to discuss or debate stuff and making things up.

Frederic is a 1st round pick with solid 5v5 production playing in the bottom 6. I dont think he breakouts like a younger player does but he still might have a other level at 27... not 31?

Frederic is 27

Sorry buds, I thought we were talking about Brown still for some reason.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

Yes, a cup team will take him at 50% aka 2 million at the deadline as a 45 point all 5v5 guy 55 point with powerplay time guy in the middle six lmfao they will pay a 1st+ in all likelihood given the arms a race at the top.

No, no they will not.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

I think the more interesting question is how unlikely that Savoie is anywhere near the NHL player that McLeod is. It would be very unlikely for him for instance to match Mcleod in career pts or intangibles.

Its crazy to me that NHL clubs would spend a good first pick on players this small but thats the way the league had been operating for years. That said Yams was way smaller, 153lbs when we fist got him. Its crazy that he's listed as 178lbs now, maybe put on some muscle to try to stick in league. Really he's a complete bust by now. Was a poor pick when we threw away a first on him.

Agreed. Look at how good Marner is, and how much his size still holds him back There should be a 6ft rule for drafting amateurs imo.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I am sure that is an original thought to say to someone with rose colored glasses, or at least the opinion the other person is biased.

What are you even trying to say.

 

[Drivesaitl]

OK I don't understand, I guess I never will. But how one Earth do so many people want Connor Brown retained? He's as bad as Janmark at this point. What are people really basing it on? Brown in playoffs despite getting intervals on top line had miserable production in last 3 rounds. he was good against Kings, thats it. He had only 2 TKA and 17GVA in playoffs. He was poor on pk, he had 3 goals against goalies. He has among the lowest hits/minute of any forward. In almost every stat he's in Janmark territory.

So why the vast disparity. What are people actually seeing in Connor Brown. All of Kapanen, Podkolzin, Perry, even Henrique better options than him.

I don't want to extend Henrique but very clearly a bias operates against him. He hits way more than Brown, 3X as much, he hits hard, He beat goalies 3X in playoffs, He has less GA, Better shot, more skilled player.

Brown had only 3hits/60mins in the playoffs. A disgusting total for somebody that is supposed to be a role player and really brings no other facet. Connor Brown had 1 hit/60mins in regular season. he had one more goal than Henrique all season, an ENG. Of the two Brown gets more minutes high up the lineup and does nothing with it.

Oh well, looks like people get their wish and we have years more of overpaid Brown doing next to nothing with zero intangibles. I would never have had this guy.

 

[Spawn]

Its going to be tough to squeeze everyone but so far I think we see the following:

Internal Free Agents
Bouchard 10M x 8 Years
Frederic 3.5M x 8 Years
Brown 2M x 4 Years
Perry 1M x 2 Years

External Free Agents
Allen 2.75M x 2 Years

Trade out:
Kane
Arvidsson
Skinner

Trade in:
Gibson at 50%

That basically puts us at about 21 man roster with 2.3M in cap space.

I don’t think you spend that much on Allen if you’re trading for Gibson. But kudos on trying to fix the goaltending. Hopefully we see something like that.

 

[MoontoScott]

A lot of talk about size on this thread but one of the best D-men in the league is Quinn Hughes who is 5 feet 10 inches and 180 pounds and he routinely takes on giant forwards in front of the net. Size is part of the equation but skill tops the cake.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

A lot of talk about size on this thread but one of the best D-men in the league is Quinn Hughes who is 5 feet 10 inches and 180 pounds and he routinely takes on giant forwards in front of the net. Size is part of the equation but skill tops the cake.

Hughes would get eaten alive in the playoffs against the forecheck of the Panthers

 

[MoontoScott]

OK I don't understand, I guess I never will. But how one Earth do so many people want Connor Brown retained? He's as bad as Janmark at this point. What are people really basing it on? Brown in playoffs despite getting intervals on top line had miserable production in last 3 rounds. he was good against Kings, thats it. He had only 2 TKA and 17GVA in playoffs. He was poor on pk, he had 3 goals against goalies. He has among the lowest hits/minute of any forward. In almost every stat he's in Janmark territory.

So why the vast disparity. What are people actually seeing in Connor Brown. All of Kapanen, Podkolzin, Perry, even Henrique better options than him.

I don't want to extend Henrique but very clearly a bias operates against him. He hits way more than Brown, 3X as much, he hits hard, He beat goalies 3X in playoffs, He has less GA, Better shot, more skilled player.

Brown had only 3hits/60mins in the playoffs. A disgusting total for somebody that is supposed to be a role player and really brings no other facet.

Oh well, looks like people get their wish and we have years more of overpaid Brown doing next to nothing with zero intangibles. I would never have had this guy.

I don't mind bringing Brown back but please---no more than 2 years. The Oilers have to get away from this habit of always giving bottom 6 guys an extra year or 2 on their deals. Its very tough to move guys with multi year contracts who were never huge contributors to begin with. Same with this Frederic thing. Sure maybe a 3 year term in case he is a late bloomer and gets 60 points next season--- but 8 years? It seems Oiler management hasn't studied the past too much and are doomed to repeat it.

 

[MoontoScott]

Hughes would get eaten alive in the playoffs against the forecheck of the Panthers

But so did a lot of Oiler d-men who are much bigger.

 

[CycloneSweep]

OK I don't understand, I guess I never will. But how one Earth do so many people want Connor Brown retained? He's as bad as Janmark at this point. What are people really basing it on? Brown in playoffs despite getting intervals on top line had miserable production in last 3 rounds. he was good against Kings, thats it. He had only 2 TKA and 17GVA in playoffs. He was poor on pk, he had 3 goals against goalies. He has among the lowest hits/minute of any forward. In almost every stat he's in Janmark territory.

So why the vast disparity. What are people actually seeing in Connor Brown. All of Kapanen, Podkolzin, Perry, even Henrique better options than him.

I don't want to extend Henrique but very clearly a bias operates against him. He hits way more than Brown, 3X as much, he hits hard, He beat goalies 4X in playoffs, He has less GA, Better shot, more skilled player.

Brown had only 3hits/60mins in the playoffs. A disgusting total for somebody that is supposed to be a role player and really brings no other facet.

Oh well, looks like people get their wish and we have years more of overpaid Brown doing next to nothing with zero intangibles. I would never have had this guy.

Kapanen is a worse player than Brown. He had a good playoffs for a bit but he is awful defensively and his offensive spurts still overall gives him less points than Brown.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't mind bringing Brown back but please---no more than 2 years. The Oilers have to get away from this habit of always giving bottom 6 guys an extra year or 2 on their deals. Its very tough to move guys with multi year contracts who were never huge contributors to begin with. Same with this Frederic thing. Sure maybe a 3 year term in case he is a late bloomer and gets 60 points next season--- but 8 years? It seems Oiler management hasn't studied the past too much and are doomed to repeat it.

Thanks for the response. But what do you see in the player? He now has poor pk stats, he's got among the worst Giveaway/Takeaway on the club, He hits less than any player on the team. He's easy to play against.

I wouldn' retain either Henrique or Brown but H had 3X as many hits in playoffs and 5X as many in regular season. lol. While putting up identical production stats. Henrique less GA regular season and playoffs.

I think it could be also people look at 5G from Brown in playoffs without realizing 2 were ENG.

Kapanen has deserved further look I guess Podkolzin, Frederic you extend assuming he'll be better.

But Brown was favored by almost as many posters as Corey Perry who was night and day better in both regular season and playoffs than Brown.

 

[CycloneSweep]

A lot of talk about size on this thread but one of the best D-men in the league is Quinn Hughes who is 5 feet 10 inches and 180 pounds and he routinely takes on giant forwards in front of the net. Size is part of the equation but skill tops the cake.

To an extent. Hughes couldn’t handle our size last year. He could still get his offence going elite but was absolutely BLEEDING chances against top.

 

[syz]

Podkolzin is the only guy I really care about at all. Will be a good depth winger with (albeit unlikely) upside. Perry, fine, but the longer he goes the higher the risk of the wheels finally falling off. I don't hate most of the names here but I also don't think they would be difficult to replace.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kapanen is a worse player than Brown. He had a good playoffs for a bit but he is awful defensively and his offensive spurts still overall gives him less points than Brown.

What? Connor BRown has the worst GVA ratio on the club. He's an easy player to strip, and just gets rubbed off pucks continually. Brown also rarely hits.

Kapanen had 2nd most hits of any forward on the club in regular season despite only playing 57 games and often limited minutes. Brown was last among forwards in total hits.

Brown is worse than Kap on the pk. KK specifically inserted Kap on pk, not saying he's good at that but better than Brown.

I could see historically the view that Brown is the better player but we're not talking about Ottawa era Brown. Kapanen is younger, harder, faster, hungrier and its shown on ice continually in reg season and playoffs.

Kapanen also had better playoff production than Brown per game and scored a huge OT series winning goal. Whats not to like given he's low cost and Brown isn't?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Thanks for the response. But what do you see in the player? He now has poor pk stats, he's got among the worst Giveaway/Takeaway on the club, He hits less than any player on the team. He's easy to play against.

I wouldn' retain either Henrique or Brown but H had 3X as many hits in playoffs and 5X as many in regular season. lol. While putting up identical production stats. Henrique less GA regular season and playoffs.

I think it could be also people look at 5G from Brown in playoffs without realizing 2 were ENG.

Kapanen has deserved further look I guess Podkolzin, Frederic you extend assuming he'll be better.

But Brown was favored by almost as many posters as Corey Perry who was night and day better in both regular season and playoffs than Brown.

Just some corrections here. Brown averaged 0.67 giveaways a game, Kapanen 0.6.
Takeaways? Brown 0.32, Kapanen 0.16. So they are close on giveaways but Brown was getting double the takeaways.

Podkolzin is worth keeping, Kapanen is like as a 13th forward but even simple shit like goal differential… Brown had a 53% Goal differential 5v5 (52% expected) and Kapanen had a 35% (51% expected).

Now Kapanen was effective in a hitting role in the playoffs for sure.

Brown is a better player overall but I think unless Brown comes in at 1.5 or lower, I’d rather take Kapanen under 1 mill. If we pay Kapanen more than that, that’s just a bad move.

 

[MoontoScott]

Thanks for the response. But what do you see in the player? He now has poor pk stats, he's got among the worst Giveaway/Takeaway on the club, He hits less than any player on the team. He's easy to play against.

I wouldn' retain either Henrique or Brown but H had 3X as many hits in playoffs and 5X as many in regular season. lol. While putting up identical production stats. Henrique less GA regular season and playoffs.

I think it could be also people look at 5G from Brown in playoffs without realizing 2 were ENG.

Kapanen has deserved further look I guess Podkolzin, Frederic you extend assuming he'll be better.

But Brown was favored by almost as many posters as Corey Perry who was night and day better in both regular season and playoffs than Brown.

I would definitely keep Perry before Brown and I think Kapanen would make a good 13th forward--but Brown did bring some scoring ability to the playoffs and is relatively youthful with decent speed on a team that looked slow and gassed in the Final.

He's not an elite player by any means but look at how disappointing higher profile guys like Kane and Frederic were in the latter part of the playoffs. How can they even consider giving Frederic an 8 year term at 4 times what Brown was making last season and at the same time let Brown walk? But again, most posters would say a 2 year deal--not 4.