Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Forwards & Goaltending Under a Microscope, Which Bottom 6 Forwards Do You Keep?

[aggressive forecheck]

You sure about that?

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Kulak is a turd that some worship because they are employed to do so.

 

[oXo Cube]

You sure about that?

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Don't really want to get into this too deep because it's off topic, but Walman doesn't look good defensively based on the metrics you posted just FYI.

Granted Bouchard is the only Oiler who does.

 

[Canovin]

Well, he can start with getting Sam Montembeault between our pipes.

Carter Hart at league minimum. He put up better numbers on a worse team in Philly. You don't forget how to play goalie even after 1.5 year off

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Agreed. Zegras reminds me of Robby Schremp and that quote from MacT;

"Some guys win puck battles. Some guys lose puck battles, but give their teammates time to help them out. He isn't aware there was a puck battle until it's already happened." - MacT on why Schremp wasn't playing.

Not a big loss. Basically they changed him out for Kreider while gaining cap space and a couple assets.

They already had a ton of work ethic and jam last year - they turned that dail up a bit this offseason. All their core players are young as hell so should be getting better year over test, they've built in a manner that will be peaking net outwards, and they've got over 30 million in cap.

They could get very very good in a hurry.

haha. I just called him Schrempy2.0 to a buddy. Though he does have a better toolkit with skating. In fairness, Philly could be a good landing spot for a second organization reset player with a solid fanbase that demands and appreciates hard work and honestly I think Tocchet will be a firm, but fair coach who will cleary set expectations for a pampered player.

But Anaheim is molding a real good emerging team that was beginning to show its competitiveness this past season. They are moving closer to a big jump into a playoff contention organization imo.

 

[McJadeddog]

Will he grow to be 6 feet? Will he get fatter?

I'm gonna blow your mind here, but stay with me: people can gain or lose muscle mass, and doing so usually changes their weight, but at the least it changes their body composition. These changes are usually the most pronounced in the the late teens and early 20s for men, and often happen with high end athletes.

He isn't going to grow taller though, that much is true. But it is not unreasonable at all to say that he will gain 10-15 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years. He might not, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Regardless of changes in weight, not all people that weigh the same, have the same body composition, build, strength, etc etc etc. So blindly saying "player X is the same height/weight as player Y, therefore their abilities will be the same" is just so grossly wrong that is hard to quantify.

 

[Canovin]

This is my sense too. He expect the Oilers to just hand him whatever, while he's making baffling deals left and right.

He's getting pressure now that Marner, Tavares, Ekblad etc are available

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Carter Hart at league minimum. He put up better numbers on a worse team in Philly. You don't forget how to play goalie even after 1.5 year off

I think you know my position on goalies who haven't gotten NHL reps in a long-time and we'll never agree there on Carter Hart. Also the "put up better numbers" thing is not true and the "worse team" thing is for sure not true. 2022-23 Hart 10.3 GSAx, Montembeault 11.8 GSAx. 2023-24 Hart -0.7 GSAx Montembeault 3.3 GSAx. The worse team thing you can literally just click on "NHL standings" and see for yourself.

 

[Frank the Tank]

The McLeod Savoie deal was never going to be a slam dunk. It made sense due to the cap issue Jackson walked himself into and with a premise of having another emerging bigger body centre/wing option in Holloway to mitigate McLeod's loss. Trading an NHL centre for a winger, a small skill one at that, is a tough bet for an organization with a hollowed out prospect and asset pool and clock ticking on a window phase team.

We'll see what Savoie brings in regular season production. But rubber will hit the road with hard, heavy playoff style. He has a better processor than a fearless Yamamoto which is key to survival and success. Will be open minded but McLeod's utility including size, skating and PK ability including face-off and ability to transport pucks out of zone were all valuable attributes they could have used...

Yeah, McLeod had the ability to transport the puck up the ice under a heavy forecheck, which the Oilers used well last year in the SCF. He had an uneven playoffs overall, and I understand the two concerns management may have had - 1) the lack of physicality in his game, resulting in too much perimeter play, and 2) he mentally crumbled after that massive 3rd period error against the Canucks in Game 7. We all saw the video of him basically crying in the locker room after the game where McDavid and Draisaitl are yelling at the team to learn from that period and improve.

Overall, I'm surprised the Oilers didn't think he could grow into a more consistent playoffs performer.

 

[oXo Cube]

Overall, I'm surprised the Oilers didn't think he could grow into a more consistent playoffs performer.

I imagine they did.

The team was ready for the Foegele experiment to be over but the only reason McLeod wasn't given one more kick at the can was cap relief.

 

[ManOfSteelI]

Don't really want to get into this too deep because it's off topic, but Walman doesn't look good defensively based on the metrics you posted just FYI.

Granted Bouchard is the only Oiler who does.

No disagreement there, but people are making Walman out to be a complete bum.. which simply isn't the case.

I think deployment was certainly an issue, too.

 

[belair]

Sure, Zegras has dropped, but the Ducks haven't done much to help him. He's still a guy with skill who can score, those are valuable.

Poehling is basically Janmark, a 4th liner type, he's going to be UFA. Expecting the Ducks could have done better here isn't unreasonable, except it's Verbeek, who seems really bad at all of this.

What are the Ducks hoping to do next season? 'Help' Zegras get back to the level of a 60 point a year forward that doesn't play a lick if defense? He's essentially Sam Gagner.

When you look at the Ducks' roster, where did he fit? When you look at their long-term cap situation, where did he fit? This was the time to move Trevor Zegras or they were going to get NOTHING for him.

If GMs saw value in Zegras, he would've gone ages ago.

 

[Canovin]

I imagine they did.

The team was ready for the Foegele experiment to be over but the only reason McLeod wasn't given one more kick at the can was cap relief.

Buffalo called and offered Savoie. Hard to turn that down.

I actually liked Mcleod over Foegele, Holloway etc. I always thought he would be our Cirelli at some point. But yes, he was a cap casualty. He would be gone for nothing this year if we kept him

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What are the Ducks hoping to do next season? 'Help' Zegras get back to the level of a 60 point a year forward that doesn't play a lick if defense? He's essentially Sam Gagner.

When you look at the Ducks' roster, where did he fit? When you look at their long-term cap situation, where did he fit? This was the time to move Trevor Zegras or they were going to get NOTHING for him.

If GMs saw value in Zegras, he would've gone ages ago.

I'm not saying now, I'm saying in the last few years, have Eakins "coach" him, he's a better player than you give him credit for and the Flyers got him for nothing. Verbeek looks like an idiot, again.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

I'm gonna blow your mind here, but stay with me: people can gain or lose muscle mass, and doing so usually changes their weight, but at the least it changes their body composition. These changes are usually the most pronounced in the the late teens and early 20s for men, and often happen with high end athletes.

He isn't going to grow taller though, that much is true. But it is not unreasonable at all to say that he will gain 10-15 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years. He might not, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Regardless of changes in weight, not all people that weigh the same, have the same body composition, build, strength, etc etc etc. So blindly saying "player X is the same height/weight as player Y, therefore their abilities will be the same" is just so grossly wrong that is hard to quantify.

Thanks for the insight. Yes we all know that but the Oilers need to stop getting these tiny forwards that get tossed in the playoffs. in 2023-2024 the Oilers were the tallest team in the league. Size would help...

 

[brentashton]

First, I wouldn't every, EVER, believe numbers around players that are online. We all know those numbers are basically made up in some cases, and that is doubly true for smaller players. I've met Eberle before as an example, and he is listed at 5'11". I was SIGNIFICANTLY bigger than him, and I'm 5'9.5". There are countless such examples of this.

Secondly, people are built different and have different compositions and body types. It's kind of crazy that I need to point this out. We are know 2 different guys who are 180 lbs each, or thereabouts, and are built 100% differently. By all accounts, Savoie is built pretty well, while it was widely known that Yams was exceptionally sleight.

By that logic, we should look for another 6-1, 195lb forward out there, but carry’s his weight differently than CmcD.

I mean we could realistically expect that player to be even better than 97 by what I’m learning here.

 

[Sinnerella]

You guys are overthinking the Gibson stuff. He would be an Oiler if the Oilers had wanted him. It was pretty widely reported that they did not view him as an upgrade on Skinner.

Perhaps their attitude has changed since the last trade deadline.

yes we all know they are #greatminds and no one else knows better.

 

[North]

By that logic, we should look for another 6-1, 195lb forward out there, but carry’s his weight differently than CmcD.

I mean we could realistically expect that player to be even better than 97 by what I’m learning here.

I’m not understanding what the issue is here.

Is it that far fetched that even though they are similar heights, Savoie might turn out better than Yamamoto?

It’s clear their builds are different. Not sure why that is hard to concede.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

First, I wouldn't every, EVER, believe numbers around players that are online. We all know those numbers are basically made up in some cases, and that is doubly true for smaller players. I've met Eberle before as an example, and he is listed at 5'11". I was SIGNIFICANTLY bigger than him, and I'm 5'9.5". There are countless such examples of this.

Secondly, people are built different and have different compositions and body types. It's kind of crazy that I need to point this out. We are know 2 different guys who are 180 lbs each, or thereabouts, and are built 100% differently. By all accounts, Savoie is built pretty well, while it was widely known that Yams was exceptionally sleight.

Keep in mind that he is is truly 5'9" (I think he's shorter) and 180 lbs, pushing 200 lbs might be a stretch and would slow him down as a player. Still small relative to the rest of the team. Heck Viktor Arvidsson is listed at 5'10" and 185 lbs but he looks like a munchkin from the Wizard of Oz on the ice.

 

[Faelko]

Why? The team wants to get younger. Play Savoie right and he may become the big name you want to trade for.

It’s an alternative to the people that want to dump him now before they see what they’ve got. I’m on board with adding youth and skill.

 

[Sinnerella]

By that logic, we should look for another 6-1, 195lb forward out there, but carry’s his weight differently than CmcD.

I mean we could realistically expect that player to be even better than 97 by what I’m learning here.

They see height/size correlation with cup winners and the thought process stops there lmfao brown kap etc are not the best pkers which is a huge element of winning a cup lol look at mcleod, much better, only real diff is a little taller a little longer reach. Closing the same distance can be done by a smaller guy but far harder - the puck moves faster than anyone can skate.

 

[brentashton]

I’m not understanding what the issue is here.

Is it that far fetched that even though they are similar heights, Savoie might turn out better than Yamamoto?

It’s clear their builds are different. Not sure why that is hard to concede.

I don’t think he will amount to anything different than KY is what I started to say. I followed up saying that they are similar in stature and current offensive output in the same league.

But I’ve been told because he wears his same weight differently on his frame, I should expect different outcomes.

No one knows. It’s all just conjecture. The silliness is people trying to say because he has same height and weight but wears it different we can expect different careers.

And then I followed up that regardless of this, Savoie is not the panacea to the Oilers needs.

 

[Canovin]

I’m not understanding what the issue is here.

Is it that far fetched that even though they are similar heights, Savoie might turn out better than Yamamoto?

It’s clear their builds are different. Not sure why that is hard to concede.

I think you guys are confusing Matt Savoie with Carter Savoie. Carter is much stockier at the same age even tho they're around the same height. Yamo was 5'8 155 lbs when we drafted him and now he's 5'9 178 lbs. That's the exact same size as Matt Savoie. If it wasn't for injuries, Yamo would still be in the NHL. He's still young enough to make a come back.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yeah, McLeod had the ability to transport the puck up the ice under a heavy forecheck, which the Oilers used well last year in the SCF. He had an uneven playoffs overall, and I understand the two concerns management may have had - 1) the lack of physicality in his game, resulting in too much perimeter play, and 2) he mentally crumbled after that massive 3rd period error against the Canucks in Game 7. We all saw the video of him basically crying in the locker room after the game where McDavid and Draisaitl are yelling at the team to learn from that period and improve.

Overall, I'm surprised the Oilers didn't think he could grow into a more consistent playoffs performer.

Sorry, not sure if your reply is sarcasm or straight. McLeod definitely polarized with his strengths and weaknesses in his development phase in Edmonton. I was lukewarm positive for the deal when it happened but don't like moving centre men for wingers which are most plentiful, cheapest position types to acquire. This was premised on having an emergent centre/wing Holloway on their roster.

Unfortunately the PK was a disaster this past season and playoff. McLeod had some real good attributes and skills they could have used. Now the organization would know better than me (duh!) whether McLeod's mental game was an inherent weakness or a situational growth and development one in their Cup run last year. The cumulative net result of last summer is a longer shopping list and more question marks in terms of building a Cup champion team and one with a sustainable runway to keep trying to break down that final door.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

By that logic, we should look for another 6-1, 195lb forward out there, but carry’s his weight differently than CmcD.

I mean we could realistically expect that player to be even better than 97 by what I’m learning here.

A player like Trent Frederic could add some grit but he plays small. He was likely injured, and if he is healthy this coming season hopefully he can add some more grit and grind and be more of a shut down guy.

 

[redgrant]

First, I wouldn't every, EVER, believe numbers around players that are online. We all know those numbers are basically made up in some cases, and that is doubly true for smaller players. I've met Eberle before as an example, and he is listed at 5'11". I was SIGNIFICANTLY bigger than him, and I'm 5'9.5". There are countless such examples of this.

Secondly, people are built different and have different compositions and body types. It's kind of crazy that I need to point this out. We are know 2 different guys who are 180 lbs each, or thereabouts, and are built 100% differently. By all accounts, Savoie is built pretty well, while it was widely known that Yams was exceptionally sleight.

What do you mean "bigger". You mean taller than Eberle and you're 5'9"?

Well how tall was Eberle 5'7" or under?