Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Dermott on a PTO, Will We See More PTO's? Can We Get Some Toughness Too Please?

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Behind Enemy Lines

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Feb 19, 2003
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I don't ever remember there being so many PTO's across the league as there is this year. Maybe I just never noticed, but it seems like every team has tossed out a ton of them.

Honestly don't see any downfall, and agree there should be more.
There's always room for value shopping. Especially with no cost to trial the merchandise. Imagine the player type is all over the map too from old established veteran guys coming off years of guaranteed contracts and money like Hoffman to reset guys like a Yamamoto who's price point and roster deployment usage has evolved over time.
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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I don't ever remember there being so many PTO's across the league as there is this year. Maybe I just never noticed, but it seems like every team has tossed out a ton of them.

Honestly don't see any downfall, and agree there should be more.
Seems like some of them are just guys that are on AHL contracts with the clubs AHL team too, but ya seems to be a bunch more than usual
 

VeteranPresence

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Aug 13, 2024
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Hoffman was one of the guys I wanted on a PTO so pretty happy with this decision. I think they waited purposely for after Penticton to see where Savoie was developmentally before inviting another scoring forward. With him not exactly blowing the doors off there, it makes sense to invite a vet who can be a warm body in the bottom six and a fixture on PP2:

RNH-McDavid-Hyman
Skinner-Draisaitl-Arvidsson
Hoffman-Henrique-Brown
Janmark-Ryan/Hamblin/Other-Perry
Podkolzin

My last wish list item would be a PTO for the 4C spot, but there aren't any great names left now so that might have to wait until the deadline.
 

SupremeTeam16

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May 31, 2013
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When has NHL free agency been rational? A record billion dollars was spent this July 1. There's bad decisions every year. St. Louis exploited a vulnerability using an inflationary CBA vehicle to do it.

We're seeing young players assert themselves through all means of CBA vehicles to choose their destination and/or prioritize their financial security over external conditions. As far as RFA offer sheet threat, I guess one obvious tactic used by other NHL teams is to keep cap space available to mitigate against flight risk. Not sure how much fear factor there needs to be if your mitigate escape paths and actively manage your development work. May have to make hard decisions earlier on how/if a player's ability and expense meet your team's budget (pending on what phase of organizational growth you're in).
I think you would be cutting yourself off from substantial roster building options if you operated under the assumption that you need to keep enough cap space to overpay unproven RFA’s by 2x-4x because another desperate gm might do something foolish.

We can talk about how these players were unhappy about their development and I think there is some merit to the fact it probably wasn’t handled flawlessly but individual player development doesn’t always line up with what’s best for a team trying to compete at the highest level. The fact is both players had ample opportunity over 2 seasons to make their mark and they never performed, it’s a results driven league and they weren’t delivering.

If an unproven player wants to prioritize getting paid substantially more then he’s worth, that’s his right but I don’t think that’s the type of character a Cup contending team wants in the room, which is likely why they chose not to match even on Holloway, who’s compensation was minimal and cap would of been manageable.

Prioritizing veterans with established track record of performance who are willing to take less to player here over entitled kids who haven’t proven anything and want to be paid like they have is a pretty easy decision for a team trying to win a Cup.
 
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K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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I wonder if this is a situation where we would be better served just waiting until the end of the year. Even if he plays to his top level is he really going to end up demanding any more than the numbers we're already talking about? Conversely, if he takes a step back in any way there may be savings opportunity.
 
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BarDownBobo

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Oct 19, 2012
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I don't ever remember there being so many PTO's across the league as there is this year. Maybe I just never noticed, but it seems like every team has tossed out a ton of them.

Honestly don't see any downfall, and agree there should be more.
I feel like it seemed worse this year because the Trade board on the mains was listing every AHL invite as a PTO to camp for some reason which was new this year
 

McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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I wonder if this is a situation where we would be better served just waiting until the end of the year. Even if he plays to his top level is he really going to end up demanding any more than the numbers we're already talking about? Conversely, if he takes a step back in any way there may be savings opportunity.
Please don't risk something like that with a player like this. Get him signed. Then there is no worry with him. With the top 6 we have this year, he may get over 82 points
 
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VeteranPresence

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Aug 13, 2024
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I wonder if this is a situation where we would be better served just waiting until the end of the year. Even if he plays to his top level is he really going to end up demanding any more than the numbers we're already talking about? Conversely, if he takes a step back in any way there may be savings opportunity.

This was why a Barrie PTO/signing might have been a sneaky good play... you give him the primo PP time for the regular season instead and force Bouch to prove he can be a true top pairing guy 5-on-5. You might see Bouch's numbers drop to 60-70 points instead of 80+ which means some cap savings while also making him a better player overall.

Is it worth burning that bridge ahead of a lengthy extension for what may end up only being $1-2M? Probably not, which is why JJ is the Prez and not me. I still think a fair number ends up being $10-10.5.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Feb 19, 2003
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Vancouver
I think you would be cutting yourself off from substantial roster building options if you operated under the assumption that you need to keep enough cap space to overpay unproven RFA’s by 2x-4x because another desperate gm might do something foolish.

We can talk about how these players were unhappy about their development and I think there is some merit to the fact it probably wasn’t handled flawlessly but individual player development doesn’t always line up with what’s best for a team trying to compete at the highest level. The fact is both players had ample opportunity over 2 seasons to make their mark and they never performed, it’s a results driven league and they weren’t delivering.

If an unproven player wants to prioritize getting paid substantially more then he’s worth, that’s his right but I don’t think that’s the type of character a Cup contending team wants in the room, which is likely why they chose not to match even on Holloway, who’s compensation was minimal and cap would of been manageable.

Prioritizing veterans with established track record of performance who are willing to take less to player here over entitled kids who haven’t proven anything and want to be paid like they have is a pretty easy decision for a team trying to win a Cup.
That's what teams did this summer with major RFA's and frankly even Toronto with a low likely mid-roster winger Robertson. The exception was Edmonton which as a Cup Finalist chose to finish its roster with veterans. We know the consequences of their choices.

With these players, the hard fact is one had an in-season trade request after being a press box player on a team that had a catastrophic start. There's more than enough grey area with development accountability on both players and team.

The character slings and arrows are pointless. Majority of people praised both players when stepping up into deep playoff competition. Holloway moving up to a 2W role and Broberg keeping his head above water despite not playing in a month. Performance situations reveal character and notably the head coach and captain praised the player. The issue stemmed from a lack of playing time within a mature phase organization that had to mitigate real blueline issue through trades across years for Keith, Kulak, Ekholm. It was also a team that went through 3 coaches in recent history with severe yo you performance extremes. Naturally as most coaches do they lean on veterans.

Obviously St. Louis is not in the same mature phase as Edmonton. They saw no character concerns with the players and the free market cap and need to take a run at poaching two young NHL ready players coming off solid support work on a Cup Final team.

Per your last point, the Oilers prioritized their choices, gambled on the youth, and the free market assigned new financial values that were beyond the Oilers choice to retain on. There's also a trend worth watching with young players opting for financial security and choices where to play. Most people in similar situations likely take the money. Professional sports careers are often short so not sure there's need to denigrate an easy decision financially that virtually anyone would make if extended the situation.
 
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Mr Kot

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Jan 15, 2022
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Hopefully no one’s vomiting over this PTO
1725326359915080.jpg
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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That's what teams did this summer with major RFA's and frankly even Toronto with a low likely mid-roster winger Robertson. The exception was Edmonton which as a Cup Finalist chose to finish its roster with veterans. We know the consequences of their choices.

With these players, the hard fact is one had an in-season trade request after being a press box player on a team that had a catastrophic start. There's more than enough grey area with development accountability on both players and team.

The character slings and arrows are pointless. Majority of people praised both players when stepping up into deep playoff competition. Holloway moving up to a 2W role and Broberg keeping his head above water despite not playing in a month. Performance situations reveal character and notably the head coach and captain praised the player. The issue stemmed from a lack of playing time within a mature phase organization that had to mitigate real blueline issue through trades across years for Keith, Kulak, Ekholm. It was also a team that went through 3 coaches in recent history with severe yo you performance extremes. Naturally as most coaches do they lean on veterans.

Obviously St. Louis is not in the same mature phase as Edmonton. They saw no character concerns with the players and the free market cap and need to take a run at poaching two young NHL ready players coming off solid support work on a Cup Final team.

Per your last point, the Oilers prioritized their choices, gambled on the youth, and the free market assigned new financial values that were beyond the Oilers choice to retain on. There's also a trend worth watching with young players opting for financial security and choices where to play. Most people in similar situations likely take the money. Professional sports careers are often short so not sure there's need to denigrate an easy decision financially that virtually anyone would make if extended the situation.
The leafs absolutely didn’t leave cap to protect against an offersheet
 

KCC

Registered User
Aug 15, 2007
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I love how Edm waited until day 1 of training camp to announce Kane is having surgery. Could have easily had the surgery after the season ended and would likely be ready by now or soon. W move waiting. Lol.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
44,053
54,776
This was why a Barrie PTO/signing might have been a sneaky good play... you give him the primo PP time for the regular season instead and force Bouch to prove he can be a true top pairing guy 5-on-5. You might see Bouch's numbers drop to 60-70 points instead of 80+ which means some cap savings while also making him a better player overall.

Is it worth burning that bridge ahead of a lengthy extension for what may end up only being $1-2M? Probably not, which is why JJ is the Prez and not me. I still think a fair number ends up being $10-10.5.
Bouchard was a true top pairing D last season at 5on5.

Why are we making the team worse by putting Barrie back on the powerplay.

I’m sure Bouchard would love to extend with a team that takes him off the powerplay so he makes less money
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
44,053
54,776
I love how Edm waited until day 1 of training camp to announce Kane is having surgery. Could have easily had the surgery after the season ended and would likely be ready by now or soon. W move waiting. Lol.
Is it a W move though? Unless he’s out all year this is a worse move than doing it earlier
 
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