Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: Cap Gymnastics

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So just open up a spot for no reason. 4M gets you a guy exactly like Russell. We’d need to spend 5+ if we want someone better.

A one-dimensional shot blocker? If he could at least move the puck even a little bit...

 

[McTonyBrar]

Again Sekera played 20 minutes in 1 game. He was a good bottom pair D and I agree it goes without saying the team looks good with a healthy D but Klefbom is never going to be healthy and subtracting a guy who played tough top 4 minutes reasonably well does nothing to nurture that situation.

How do you know klefbom will never be healthy? Do you have a crystal ball?

 

[Raab]

We'll agree to disagree then.
I'm just not a fan of the player. The thing he's best at is blocking shots and that's mainly because he constantly allows zone entries due to backing in and collapsing towards the net.

He's an ok player to have on a team. He's tough as nails and seems like a high character guy but he doesn't do anything at even an above average level. For $4M, I'd like a player to be above average at one aspect.

I'm not saying open a spot for no reason. Use the 4M to fill needs.

I think you need to adjust your idea of what a 4M player is when guys like Manning and Benning are making 2M.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think you need to adjust your idea of what a 4M player is when guys like Manning and Benning are making 2M.

Note that, of course, most teams wouldn't pay those players that much.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I remember Russell bringing stability to the backend. There’s no chance Holland moves him. I honestly think we’d see one of Larsson, Nurse, or Klefbom moved for an upgrade before he moves Russell or Sekera.

This could be true. Holland spent years looking to upgrade the putrid Detroit blueline. He has a decent one in Edmonton, it wouldn't be the most shocking thing ever to see him want to hold tight with what we have. It's solid, if not spectacular, when we aren't having injury issues.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I think you need to adjust your idea of what a 4M player is when guys like Manning and Benning are making 2M.

Benning and Manning are untradeable because they are making 2M. Manning was a scatch in the AHL for crying out loud. You can't just use the worst contracts to make others seem less bad.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Benning and Manning are untradeable because they are making 2M. Manning was a scatch in the AHL for crying out loud. You can't just use the worst contracts to make others seem less bad.

Benning is far from the worst contract

 

[CupofOil]

I think you need to adjust your idea of what a 4M player is when guys like Manning and Benning are making 2M.

Manning being overpaid doesn't mean that Russell is worth 4M.
Benning is fine in his role as a bottom pairing Dman. It's when he jumps in the top 4 that he gets exposed, 2M is fine for what he brings.

 

[Raab]

Benning and Manning are untradeable because they are making 2M. Manning was a scatch in the AHL for crying out loud. You can't just use the worst contracts to make others seem less bad.

Find me a UFA better then Russell who will be less then 4M to sign. Won’t happen, I think we can all agree he’s a step up on Manning and Benning.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Find me a UFA better then Russell who will be less then 4M to sign. Won’t happen, I think we can all agree he’s a step up on Manning and Benning.

I'm a step up from Manning.

The Oilers have stupidly overpaid players for years, Russell is no different. And naturally because now most of the roster is overpaid, anyone coming in is likely to be overpaid too.

 

[RebuildTheRebuild]

Yet once again we out scored the opposition 56-54 with Russell on the ice at even strength and our goalies had a .919 save %. That’s with him yet again getting the worst D zone starts and playing against top 4 competition all year. Put the ghost of Sekera on his off side in that situation and see what happens. It won’t be pretty. Better yet see what happens when Klefbom inevitably gets hurt for 30 games.

Here is Russell goal totals from the past few years and they are wildly inconsistent at 5x5 taken from Corsica.

Year: GF-GA

2018-19: 50-49
2017-18: 44-58
2016-17: 41-34
2015-16: 51-58
2014-15: 73-57
2013-14: 47-58

Just taken from this GF-GA numbers at 5x5, it is not a predictor of success for Russell. It's literally up and down each of these years shown. These numbers don't really tell me anything but that Russell could be wildly inconsistent. In terms of who to trade between Russell vs Sekera I am not too sure. I am inclined to go Russell just because of the fact he is cheaper but Sekera ability transition the puck is something we sorely need. Its just the question of whether or not Sekera can play in the top 4 and on his off-side at that. Ideally to me we can trade off both and use the money on a decent top 4 dman (Stralman maybe?) and a decent winger but its next 0% chance we trade both.

 

[guymez]

Manning being overpaid doesn't mean that Russell is worth 4M.
Benning is fine in his role as a bottom pairing Dman. It's when he jumps in the top 4 that he gets exposed, 2M is fine for what he brings.

I do think Benning is on his way out the door though.
The Oilers need to make room for some of the young dmen and Benning isnt an option for the mentoring role.

If I had to guess it will likely be Benning and Russell that are traded.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Sekera was coming back from a major injury and was a better D than Russell. Sekera pre injury was tiers above Russell. Sekera is a legitimate top 4 D (closer to a #3 when healthy). Id take Sekera on one leg if he never progresses post injury over Russell. If Sekera is able to rebound to something sort of close to how he was pre injury, we have a very good 2nd pairing D

I think Sekera is an imperfect D only because we dont know what well get next year and his price tag is high for that kind of bet. But his upside is huge. His downside is not worse than what we know well forsure get from Russell

I trade Russell tomorrow for whatever I can get just to get out from that contract. I keep Sekera and ONLY trade him if we get an actual top 4 D somewhere else

We saw Sekera on one leg. It wasn't pretty.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And who’s your replacement? Even if you move Sekera to the second pairing, Russell is the perfect vet for a guy like Bouchard on the third pairing.

Sekera is that perfect vet and an ideal mentor for Bouchard. Problem is that he can't play on the 2nd and 3rd pairing for us every night!

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I do think Benning is on his way out the door though.
The Oilers need to make room for some of the young dmen and Benning isnt an option for the mentoring role.

If I had to guess it will likely be Benning and Russell that are traded.

If the Oilers are trading those two, rookies better not be the replacements.

 

[Raab]

Sekera is that perfect vet and an ideal mentor for Bouchard. Problem is that he can't play on the 2nd and 3rd pairing for us every night!

Exactly, which is why you keep Russell. We know injuries will hit. Keep our depth. I’d rather have Russell then another forward like Pouliot.

 

[Canovin]

Exactly, which is why you keep Russell. We know injuries will hit. Keep our depth. I’d rather have Russell then another forward like Pouliot.

Lagesson and Jones are ready. We don't need Russell taking up 4M when Lagesson/Jones are suffice. One of them gets injured, call up the other.

 

[Raab]

Lagesson and Jones are ready. We don't need Russell taking up 4M when Lagesson/Jones are suffice. One of them gets injured, call up the other.

How many NHL games between the two?

 

[SK13]

How do you know klefbom will never be healthy? Do you have a crystal ball?

Oscar has played 209/242 regular season games over the last three seasons. The time he missed? Getting shutdown for bone-chip removal that could have waited until the offseason, if the Oilers weren't well out of it & getting his finger broken by a stick in a play that could happen to literally any player.

I'm tired of that narrative. "Injury prone" players have concussion or groin issues, something systemic and recurring. The only long term injury Klefbom has had in 7 years at the NA level was a freak staph infection.

 

[SK13]

How many NHL games between the two?

So, what, never graudate a defenseman prospect? The Oilers other 5D all have at least 200 NHL games.

 

[SK13]

What bad teams? Every team he’s ever played for has made the playoffs during his time there

08/09 CBJ - 92 Points
11/12 Blues - 110 Points
12/13 Blues - 103 point pace (shortened season)
14/15 Flames - 97 Points
15/16 Stars - 109 points
16/17 Oilers - 103 points

Wasn't a top-4 defenseman in Columbus or St Louis until the end of his tenure in STL. The Flames were bad for almost all of his tenure there and Widman/Russell was a disaster. He was a rental in Dallas and wasn't very well received there.

I don't have to point out that the Oilers have sucked for almost all of his tenure here, do I? Their defense was the weak point of that 103 point team. Bottom 5 in scoring chances against and high-danger chances against and Russell had a healthy Andrej Sekera in arguably his best ever all-around NHL season carrying him.

If you're going to argue that Kris Russell is a top-4 defenseman because teams without depth have used him there, I'm going to point out those teams have been more bad than good. He's a top-4 option only because the teams that have played him there haven't had 4 actual top-4 defenseman.

Now I could argue the Oilers have 5 better defenseman, albeit Benning only because of a 25 game sample with Andrej Sekera.

 

[Canovin]

How many NHL games between the two?

If you're good, you don't need any experience. Look at Makar for example. Came in and look like a top 4 right off the bat. We are not asking Jones/Lagesson to do that either. Patrolling the bottom pairing is enough while providing cap relief so we can get some help on forward

 

[MessierII]

How do you know klefbom will never be healthy? Do you have a crystal ball?

It’s called playing the odds. When a player is injured for a pretty significant period time in 90% of his pro seasons you probably shouldn’t be counting on that guy to play 80+ games a year.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How many NHL games between the two?

Who cares?

You can’t pay your bottom pairing defencemen 4 million dollars in this league.

Move Russell, sign Gravel, promote Jones or Lagesson. At worst I think you’re net even, and that’s before you sign a Connolly or a Donskoi.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Who cares?

You can’t pay your bottom pairing defencemen 4 million dollars in this league.

Move Russell, sign Gravel, promote Jones or Lagesson. At worst I think you’re net even, and that’s before you sign a Connolly or a Donskoi.

You also can't keep injecting rookie defensemen into the team when the goalie couldn't stop a beachball.

I'm all for replacing Benning and Russell, but with actual NHL players.