Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Hallsy Take 2?

[McXLNC97]

Yes all that no cap skace and yet he signed many players who besides PK offer NOTHING

The poster had it right above about Boyle. Do not have to spend lots if you spend smart but guess people like scrubs like Jurco Haas and Nygard over Boyle???

Nobody else even wanted Boyle until almost like 6/7 games into the season. Just cause he's scored goals in back to back games doesn't mean he should have been signed.

 

[Snowpants]

Nobody else even wanted Boyle until almost like 6/7 games into the season. Just cause he's scored goals in back to back games doesn't mean he should have been signed.

I suggested we sign him many times people kept telling me too slow Tipp would not like him

Oops

 

[McXLNC97]

I suggested we sign him many times people kept telling me too slow Tipp would not like him

Oops

He is still slow...and his goal yesterday should never have happened...that was just horrible defending all around.

 

[nabob]

Brian Boyle just signed with the Panthers and has goals in back to back games.. Meanwhile Granlund signed on July 1 and is as useless as Jussi Jokinen was. Ugh...

Hmmm kinda sounds like he didn’t want to sign here and chose Florida instead.

 

[belair]

I suggested we sign him many times people kept telling me too slow Tipp would not like him

Oops

Boyle signed late and signed in Florida. He wasn't an option.

 

[Snowpants]

Boyle signed late and signed in Florida. He wasn't an option.

Have no idea what this means

Yes he signed late well after I said Oilers should sign him

You know Tambolland can sign NHL free agents right? Not just Euros AHL guys???

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Yes all that no cap skace and yet he signed many players who besides PK offer NOTHING

The poster had it right above about Boyle. Do not have to spend lots if you spend smart but guess people like scrubs like Jurco Haas and Nygard over Boyle???

It's easy to point out Boyle after he scores a couple points early but it just as likely he could of signed here not scored and you'd be saying "dumb Holland signed old, slow Brian Boyle" and secondly how do you know he didn't try to sign Boyle? To me that situation seemed like Boyle had a few places in mind he would be ok playing otherwise he was ok sitting out. Do you believe that no other team in the NHL offered him a deal before the season started? I mean he scored 18 last year coming back from cancer and the guy is a known fitness freak, I'm sure there were at least a couple teams interested in him and it wouldn't surprise me if the Oilers we're one of them.

Holland had a lot of holes to plug and he went with the best strategy he could, the buckshot approach. A bunch of gambles on cheap contracts to guys who can pk, and were reliable defensively that they think might have some growth potential in their game. The scoring hasn't materialized yet but just like everyone says our PP and being carried by two guys is unsustainable, the bottom 6 shooting 0% and RNH almost the same is likewise unsustainable and eventually those numbers will somewhat normalize.

Realistically it's too early to call any young players up. They've just got to Bako and haven't even gotten their feet under them yet really, they need time to get their games going. Maybe you could give one of the guys like Currie, Gambardella, Malone a shot see if they can provide a spark in place of Khaira or some of the others, but I wouldn't want to see any of the other young guys up until after the new year. They could look at trades but it's still so early, nobody around the league is really looking to make changes before the 15-20 game mark.

In my opinion Holland has been doing a fine job in everything from mining players with no cap to how he's dealt with bad situations (Jesse, Lucic) and at this time I think his best course of action is to just have the team fight through it until those bottom 6 numbers normalize a bit and get the pro scouting department out there earning their keep and finding a winger they think would mesh well with RNH and a 3C to help drive secondary scoring.

 

[McXLNC97]

Have no idea what this means

Yes he signed late well after I said Oilers should sign him

You know Tambolland can sign NHL free agents right? Not just Euros AHL guys???

So why didn't Boyle sign with any of the other 30 teams until the NHL season was under way?

 

[belair]

Heck, Regula is a very solid prospect, I don’t mind us missing out on Perlini if that was the cost.

Good add for the Wings though, he seems like he’ll fit that forward core well.

I'm not sure I'd call him a solid prospect just yet, but this seems like a dick move by Yzerman.

Regula is a Detroit native and a nephew of a former Red Wing. Seems like a missed opportunity there for the kid he never got a chance to take advantage of.

 

[belair]

Have no idea what this means

Yes he signed late well after I said Oilers should sign him

You know Tambolland can sign NHL free agents right? Not just Euros AHL guys???

It means he's a player close to retirement who chose to sign in a warm climate with no state tax. The player you're speaking of had spent the majority of his professional career on the East Coast. The other two partial seasons, he played in California.

This Tamboland thing is pathetic.

 

[replacement]

This board is much more enjoyable if you ignore the people who think every free agent would have 100% signed in Edmonton, and that they would be better General Managers than Ken Freaking Holland.

 

[Snowpants]

It means he's a player close to retirement who chose to sign in a warm climate with no state tax. The player you're speaking of had spent the majority of his professional career on the East Coast. The other two partial seasons, he played in California.

This Tamboland thing is pathetic.

You want to see pathetic???

You're going back too far Replacement. Nobody would've walked the path the previous management did. But Chiarelli came in and addressed what he had to in regards to the defense. Arguably that doesn't happen without making a few difficult trades. But the on ice product is night and day since he took over. Unfortunately this year the depth's not there and our ability to prevent GA has regressed substantially.

There's a substantial disconnect between the expectations of what this fan-base expected of Chiarelli this summer and what was actually realistically available to him

Call it a strawman but the crux of the anti-Chiarelli movement lies on the benchmark Hall trade. And the best realistic alternative you guys can provide is a total MacT move of sitting patiently, changing very little and giving too much money to a severely flawed player with the intention of giving them way too much responsibility.

I don't defend every move the man has made, but the team Peter Chiarelli has built is well-balanced and financially viable.

Barzal 0 points. Eberle 0 points. Beauvillier 0 points. And the 'Chiarelli-built' NY Islanders are currently trending to finish behind us in the standings this year.

forgive me if I do not think you know much about whether a GM is doing a good job or not...

 

[Cloned]

 

[Oilhawks]

 

[belair]

You want to see pathetic???

forgive me if I do not think you know much about whether a GM is doing a good job or not...

You want to provide me some context here or are you just randomly quoting me?

If you have the time I can elaborate on everything you've managed to scrape from one page of a previous thread several years ago.

The funny thing about hockey is that teams don't win on the basis of how many 'good' players are on the team. The argument being provided there is that a successful team requires a sufficient combination of talent. A part that is capable of providing sufficient offense while the rest is capable of minimizing the opponent's attack. That opinion has never changed.

The Oilers pre-Chiarelli were deprived of available assets for trade. The Ethan Bears, Caleb Joneses, Tyler Bensons and such were not existent. Our primary assets of value on the trade market were our primary producers of offense-- and they made $6m AAV in the salary cap era. Like it or not, the Oilers were a bad team for a long time and the perceived value of our players suffered because of it.

Fast forward to today and you see a team that has a cap situation that improves very shortly after Chiarelli was dismissed from the post.

Care to address any of these points or are you going to stick with childish name-calling of a GM that did exactly what he said he was going to while you provide little if no defense to the logic being thrown at your alternatives?

 

[Cloned]

Except you aren't walking back out of this thread.

 

[Cloned]

You want to provide me some context here or are you just randomly quoting me?

If you have the time I can elaborate on everything you've managed to scrape from one page of a previous thread several years ago.

The funny thing about hockey is that teams don't win in the basis of how many 'good' players are on the team. The argument being provided there is that a successful team requires a sufficient combination of talent. A part that is capable of providing sufficient offense while the rest is capable of minimizing the opponent's attack. That opinion has never changed.

The Oilers pre-Chiarelli were deprived of available assets for trade. The Ethan Bears, Caleb Joneses, Tyler Bensons and such were not existent. Our primary assets of value on the trade market were our primary producers of offense-- and they made $6m AAV in the salary cap era. Like it or not, the Oilers were a bad team for a long time and the perceived value of our players suffered because of it.

Fast forward to today and you see a team that has a cap situation that improves very shortly after Chiarelli was dismissed from the post.

Care to address any of these points or are you going to stick with childish name-calling of a GM that did exactly what he said he was going to?

I'll defend Holland together with you, but I think you need to recalibrate your opinions of Chiarelli. I know I had to.

 

[ZenOil]

He's too nice on the ice.

It takes all kinds. Just need a thicker guy with lots of testosterone/grit to balance a Nuge line out. Drai comes to mind but that leaves McDavid with at least one turd. Nuge looks soft and plays soft but he has skills. He's the kale salad, needs some meat and potatoes to provide a balanced meal.

 

[Oilhawks]

Except you aren't walking back out of this thread.

I'm watching from the shadows with my spyglass.

 

[belair]

I'll defend Holland together with you, but I think you need to recalibrate your opinions of Chiarelli. I know I had to.

My thoughts on any GM are quotable as well. They're figureheads for lack of a better word. They can make broad decisions that impact the immediate roster. But the payroll, the trade market and inner workings of a franchise--ie scouting and development--hold a much higher impact than the guy with that title.

If you want to argue that the Hall trade had that much of a negative impact on the future workings of the Oilers roster, you need to be willing to look at the scenario where he continued to put up injury-riddled 50-60 point seasons where the Oilers continued to lose while struggling defensively.

Lot of moving parts on an NHL franchise and putting pucks in the net is far from the only thing any GM needs to worry about. And today, talking about the job in front of Ken, I'd argue that it's not something he needs to fret over.

 

[Cloned]

My thoughts on any GM are quotable as well. They're figureheads for lack of a better word. They can make broad decisions that impact the immediate roster, but the payroll, the trade market and inner workings of a franchise--ie scouting and development--hold a much higher impact than the guy with that title.

If you want to argue that the Hall trade had that much of a negative impact on the future workings of the Oilers roster, you need to be willing to look at the scenario where he continued to put up injury-riddled 50-60 point seasons where the Oilers continued to lose while struggling defensively.

Lot of moving parts on an NHL franchise and putting pucks in the net is far from the only thing any GM needs to worry about. And today, talking about the job in front of Ken, I'd argue that it's not something he needs to fret over.

A terrible GM can make an impact above replacement (IAR copyright ) though. As can an excellent GM.

And Chiarelli was several magnitudes into the negative IAR range.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I think all the griping about Nuge not scoring more goals is misplaced, I've seen him get multiple good looks on net and multiple quality shots that were certainly of a caliber where they had a good chance at beating a goalie, sometimes they hit iron and sometimes the goalie made a terrific save. I always think you should keep career shooting percentage in mind when ragging on a player when they get cold or pumping up a player on a hot streak, most revert to the norm and in the cases it doesn't catch up to them in the current season it will probably happen in the next (kinda seems like that's happening to Chiasson and Neal now).

The legitimate concern at the moment is how ineffective the 2nd line has been at 5 on 5, they just aren't generating quality looks with any real regularity and Nuge has 2 even strength points in 12 games. While Nuge did have brief success with Pouliot and Eberle playing as more of a rush line, I don't think rush style offense has ever been the strong suit of his game. Nuge is a support offensive player, like a Brendan Morrison or a Shawn Horcoff, he doesn't challenge guys and force defensive breakdowns in the same way a Connor, Drai, or Hall would, he's just out there trying to play low mistake hockey (waiting for breaks instead of creating his breaks), he's smart enough to capitalize on a breakdown when it occurs and skilled enough to make a good play when it presents itself, but when his line is easy to neutralize and they aren't forcing the defense into the kind of tough decisions that creates breakdowns he really doesn't accomplish much out there. At present the 2nd line needs to either get better at prolonged shifts in the offensive zone, the more in-zone time the more likely breakdowns are to occur, especially when guys get tired or we need to add a dynamic offensive element who will try to make things happen. I've been pretty against Ho-Sang in the past, but right now I'd consider him cause we just need some offensive spark and I'm willing to take on some defensive shortcomings/character flaws to get it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Nuge and I don't want to get rid of him, we just lack the pieces necessary to draw the best out of him, it's like a soup where the you have some good ingredients, but are lacking that element to bring it all together.

 

[guymez]

I think all the griping about Nuge not scoring more goals is misplaced, I've seen him get multiple good looks on net and multiple quality shots that were certainly of a caliber where they had a good chance at beating a goalie, sometimes they hit iron and sometimes the goalie made a terrific save. I always think you should keep career shooting percentage in mind when ragging on a player when they get cold or pumping up a player on a hot streak, most revert to the norm and in the cases it doesn't catch up to them in the current season it will probably happen in the next (kinda seems like that's happening to Chiasson and Neal now).

The legitimate concern at the moment is how ineffective the 2nd line has been at 5 on 5, they just aren't generating quality looks with any real regularity and Nuge has 2 even strength points in 12 games. While Nuge did have brief success with Pouliot and Eberle playing as more of a rush line, I don't think rush style offense has ever been the strong suit of his game. Nuge is a support offensive player, like a Brendan Morrison or a Shawn Horcoff, he doesn't challenge guys and force defensive breakdowns in the same way a Connor, Drai, or Hall would, he's just out there trying to play low mistake hockey (waiting for breaks instead of creating his breaks), he's smart enough to capitalize on a breakdown when it occurs and skilled enough to make a good play when it presents itself, but when his line is easy to neutralize and they aren't forcing the defense into the kind of tough decisions that creates breakdowns he really doesn't accomplish much out there. At present the 2nd line needs to either get better at prolonged shifts in the offensive zone, the more in-zone time the more likely breakdowns are to occur, especially when guys get tired or we need to add a dynamic offensive element who will try to make things happen. I've been pretty against Ho-Sang in the past, but right now I'd consider him cause we just need some offensive spark and I'm willing to take on some defensive shortcomings/character flaws to get it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Nuge and I don't want to get rid of him, we just lack the pieces necessary to draw the best out of him, it's like a soup where the you have some good ingredients, but are lacking that element to bring it all together.

I agree with this.
Nygard may not be the answer to the 2nd line problem in the long run however I do think that he is the best fit for the 2nd line at this point in time.
Based on the very limited sample size so far I think he is a legit middle 6 NHL player and his speed through the neutral zone and puck pressure would provide an element that that line is lacking IMO.

I havent heard an update but hopefully he is back soon.

 

[Bankerguy]

most teams struggle to find good top 6 players. You guys need good bottom six players... shouldnt be too hard to find. Depth scoring is important.
Every Canuck forward had at least one point tonight. Imagine if u had that depth on the Oil with that top6 talent. scary!

 

[belair]

A terrible GM can make an impact above replacement (IAR copyright ) though. As can an excellent GM.

And Chiarelli was several magnitudes into the negative IAR range.

A good GM can surround himself with good people. Over time those people will make a much larger impact on the future of your organization than the trades and FA signings we generally bicker over on these boards. This is why the GM doesn't really get a boatload of my respect.

Fact is that every GM is eventually fired. Every NHLer you keep on your roster long-term gets a raise. Keeping your roster stock full of good value NHL contracts is impossible. If you have good players, you have to pay to keep them--even when they underperform. If you choose not to, you eventually lose value on the asset.

Speaking strictly Chiarelli, he brought us the 'bold moves' Craig MacTavish promised and shied away from. 'Trades are hard', as MacT so openly admitted. The reality is that a team that misses the playoffs for ten straight seasons doesn't hold a lot of bargaining power--particularly when they're coming to the table with a limited number of quality assets and a very specific set of needs. That knight in shining armor GM wasn't magically changing those circumstances.

And speaking stictly Chiarelli, Ryan Getzlaf driving his knee into Andrej Sekera's had a much greater impact on the end of his tenure than any of the trades of FA signings he made. Because these guys get fired because their teams lose.