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Ruff has to go

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romba said:
Of course because that fits your narrative of blame the coach for player’s problems and ignore the coach exists when players flourish
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If I have a narrative, that's neither correct nor remotely all of it.

I don't blame coaches for players problems, I blame the player, if I deem them the source of the problem. (Kreider's inconsistency/brain farts, his problem, for example)
I blame the coaches for bad schemes, that get exploited and not remedied. (giving G top pair minutes when he was kinda done; Staal and Co. past/this season)
I blame coaches for being out-coached. (most of AV's time here; the Finals* *coaching also meaning lighting a fire when needed/motivation)

In regards to players development, we can assume that Ruff is one of many many different factors. I will admit, that I tend to ignore coaching when players flourish.
The way I see it, is partially deterministic. I assume, that there is a predetermined peak player in everybody and many factors along the way will decide, whether or not the player reaches that peak. Coaches, socio-economic circumstances, personal desire, talent, skill. Maybe it's my personality that weighs the negative potentials more on the coaches corner, but at this level it's pretty much individual talent and will (coaches and players).

I'd argue in our case, Ruff is more in charge of our defensive scheme, than the development of our young D. Like 70% responsible for the defensive strategy and 30% direct development.

True Blue said:
So I am curious. Not a Ruff fan at all, but seeing the amount of hate he got early on, does he now get praise for players like Fox, Lindgren & DeAngelo progressing?
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Not from me he won't.

All three are kissed by the gods imo. Need to be unleashed, but still kept of a leash, if one can make sense of that.

Outside of Lias and a little bit Kravtsov, the development of our rookies has been awesome. They can all take partial success in that, Quinn, Ruff, Coach Garlic and all the other coaches that rarely get mentioned, that I don't know of course.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Of course. Because all the positive stuff that happens is in spite of Ruff, yet all the negative stuff is his fault.

Staal sucks? Ruff's fault
Fox plays great? Ruff had nothing to do with it

Etc
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The whole team's defensive structure looks like a mess every night. I don't attribute that to individual players' skills. I think Ruff and Quinn have done well in player development but Quinn is in charge of drawing out some kind of defensive structure that works and the rangers routinely are taken to school in terms of possession when teams enter into the rangers' zone. I blame Ruff for that.
 
The New Russian Five said:
I think Ruff and Quinn have done well in player development but Quinn is in charge of drawing out some kind of defensive structure that works and the rangers routinely are taken to school in terms of possession when teams enter into the rangers' zone. I blame Ruff for that.
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So let me get this straight. Quinn and Ruff are both responsible for the defense, but you assign the positives to Quinn and the negatives to Ruff?
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
So let me get this straight. Quinn and Ruff are both responsible for the defense, but you assign the positives to Quinn and the negatives to Ruff?
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I didn't say they were both responsible for the defense, I said they were responsible for player development. Actually from what I know and read about the two coaches, Quinn is the developer. Ruff is more the Xs and Os type guy and he is specifically assigned to defense on the team... Team defense is still bad regardless if a player like Fox and Deangelo have improved their games. In fact, the fact that so many players took big steps this year on the rangers but the team defense is still quite shit should tell you enough about the defensive system. If you attribute the blame to Quinn as well for that, then yeah he should go. But just based on what I have read, that seems to be Ruff's responsibility.

But I would rather keep Quinn, for now, to help the development of the young players and get someone else in to fix the team structure on defense.

I hope that clarifies my point of view for you.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Okay. Serious question: Is replacing Ruff really going to magically turn our defense into a powerhouse? Is a new defensive coach turning Staal and Sith into good defensemen again?
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No- but I will note that to Ruff and Quinn's credit, they changed the system, and made their adjustments mid-season. A lot of it had to do with line-up adjustments that were just handicap worthy (Haley & Smith on the 4th line), but I notice some structural changes.

More pressure in the neutral zone, zone coverage in the d-zone, no Brady Skjei. You also got better goaltending on the PK. Henrik has really slipped there. I don't have much of an issue with 5v5 Hank, it's him on the PK that's really where he's lost that edge.

I think collectively it is more than just Ruff, or individual players. It's all of the above factors that have caused improvements.
 
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egelband said:
I like Lindy Ruff.
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I don't really care about Ruff. Don't like him, don't dislike him. But the reasoning to "fire him" just doesn't make sense to me.

1. Replacing Ruff isn't magically turning Smith and Staal into serviceable D-men
2. Not crediting him at all with the strides made by Fox, Lindgren and DeAngelo, but at the same time blaming him for whatever goes wrong, is crazy
 
Getting real tired of the troll posters who start moron threads like this in the first place. We've got enough agita in the world now without this mindless diarrhea of the keyboards. Suggest we ALL just stop responding for each other's sake much as we are agreeing, most of us except the infantile and deranged, not to breathe our germs on each other for a while. On which note.....
 
NYRFANMANI said:
If I have a narrative, that's neither correct nor remotely all of it.

I don't blame coaches for players problems, I blame the player, if I deem them the source of the problem. (Kreider's inconsistency/brain farts, his problem, for example)
I blame the coaches for bad schemes, that get exploited and not remedied. (giving G top pair minutes when he was kinda done; Staal and Co. past/this season)
I blame coaches for being out-coached. (most of AV's time here; the Finals* *coaching also meaning lighting a fire when needed/motivation)

In regards to players development, we can assume that Ruff is one of many many different factors. I will admit, that I tend to ignore coaching when players flourish.
The way I see it, is partially deterministic. I assume, that there is a predetermined peak player in everybody and many factors along the way will decide, whether or not the player reaches that peak. Coaches, socio-economic circumstances, personal desire, talent, skill. Maybe it's my personality that weighs the negative potentials more on the coaches corner, but at this level it's pretty much individual talent and will (coaches and players).

I'd argue in our case, Ruff is more in charge of our defensive scheme, than the development of our young D. Like 70% responsible for the defensive strategy and 30% direct development.



Not from me he won't.

All three are kissed by the gods imo. Need to be unleashed, but still kept of a leash, if one can make sense of that.

Outside of Lias and a little bit Kravtsov, the development of our rookies has been awesome. They can all take partial success in that, Quinn, Ruff, Coach Garlic and all the other coaches that rarely get mentioned, that I don't know of course.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, like that leash that extends when pulled and you don't lock the button fast enough, causing your dog to get hit by a car passing by. Oh and btw, everyone should TOSS those leashes right in the trash. IMHO.
 
last nite and today I was watching the 2014 series against the Habs. The difference on defense is HUUUUUUGGGGEEE. Samuelson was so much better than Ruff. Fire Ruff. Bring back Samuelson. Pay him HC salary if that what it takes.
 
free0717 said:
last nite and today I was watching the 2014 series against the Habs. The difference on defense is HUUUUUUGGGGEEE. Samuelson was so much better than Ruff. Fire Ruff. Bring back Samuelson. Pay him HC salary if that what it takes.
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Totally different personnel. Not sure how this is comparable. I mean, maybe Samuelsson is a better coach but this isn’t making the case...at least not for me. Fwiw.
 
free0717 said:
last nite and today I was watching the 2014 series against the Habs. The difference on defense is HUUUUUUGGGGEEE. Samuelson was so much better than Ruff. Fire Ruff. Bring back Samuelson. Pay him HC salary if that what it takes.
Click to expand...

Having Stralman, a prime McDonagh, a still good Staal and Girardi surely helps. Right? The impact of coaches is severely overrated.
 
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