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Roy....the ongoing discussion...
- Thread starter Lek
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impaaaaaact
Registered User
My read on the whole situation is that Roy is a modern coach that is being forced to try and teach old dogs new tricks. I think he's a good (potentially very good) coach who just doesn't have the roster to run his system, especially on the back end. When you see players like Isaiah George with almost no professional experience come up and not look out of place, but see former top pairing guys shit the bed every night it tells me that his attributes are built for Roy's system and theirs aren't.
The roster thrived under Trotz whose gameplay basically revolved around taking all action out of the game to limit chances and turn every game into a battle of goaltenders - smart when your team is lacking in explosive players and has an elite goaltender duo. Roy is taking mostly those same guys 6 years later and trying to get them to play an analytically driven puck possession game... which also makes sense when your most talented player is Mat Barzal. But most of the older players don't have the speed or stamina to play that way, and it wears them down towards the end of every game... and every game wears them down towards the end of the season.
I think that as a fandom we are also especially tuned in to the possible effect a coach can have on a team after watching the them go from an 80 point team with a first time coach to a 100 point team with a hall of famer immediately after losing their franchise player for nothing. However I think that's like the 99th percentile in coach influence... most teams go from an average coach to a slightly above or slightly below average coach and the difference is a couple of points here or there.
We haven't had a full 82 games of Roy yet but we're getting close; he's 35-30-12 as a coach during the regular season, which is an 88 point pace. Lambert was 61-46-20 which is a 93 point pace. Adjust for injuries and they're probably just about even to this point. I think Roy has certainly looked/sounded more competent throughout than Lambert ever has, and I think that's worth something.
The last thing you need to decide how you feel about is the special teams, and how much control Roy actually has there as this is really what has held them back the most. It's interesting that when Roy brought in his PK guy to the team Lou seemed a bit annoyed when it got out. I think it's also interesting that that guy is not running the PK... it's a former Devil that Lou brought in. When you combine that with the fact that the guy who ran the worst PP in the league (also brought in by Lou) has retained his job after overseeing the worst PP in the league to this point this year I think it becomes fair to question who these guys are answering to. If Desrosiers is running the PK and Roy makes his own assistant coach pick are they still in last place?
I'm not trying to absolve Roy completely as the team is under his control - but I think in order to accurately assess him you need to take a close look at the conditions he's working under. I think he's probably a very good coach being hampered by all things Lou, and I'm scared of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'd keep him around for sure.
Lame Lambert
Fire Lou
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Fire him don’t fire him, I don’t really care. The fish rots from the head down.
Fantom
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his team we have to work with simply isn't performing. While Roy himself may not be the sole problem, something drastic needs to change. If I were the club owner with the power to make the necessary decisions, I would:
- FIRE LOU: The current leadership has proven ineffective.
- HIRE A NEW GENERAL MANAGER: This individual will have the authority to:
- Evaluate the current roster and coaching staff.
- Make the necessary changes to improve the team's performance.
- GRANT THE GM 3-5 SEASONS TO TURN THINGS AROUND: This timeline allows for a proper rebuild and demonstrates a commitment to long-term success.
Did you hear that guys? Rebuild.
The idea of a rebuild makes people here queasy. Has been debated to death on this board.
Richie Daggers Crime
Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
Rehabguy
In ROY I trust
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Thank you for this thread and thank you for restoring my faith in some Islander fans. I'm of the shy type so I'm not one to start threads so again thanks.
I agree with everything you say and I think one of the most important thing you brought up about Roy is his pedigree. I can't think of any player involved in the game of hockey today who absolutely, positively, unabashedly HATES losing. And it's this WANT of winning and HATE of losing that has made Roy one of the greatest winners at pretty much everything he does hockey related and that includes as a player, an owner, a GM and a coach. Like I said in another thread I see him as the Elon Musk of hockey players. He's not ashamed to say to your face F- off if he thinks you're an idiot. The guy simply wants to win and he will go to town on you if he feels you are in his way of winning.
I love winners like this. They are cut from the same mold. When advertisers say they are going to stop advertising on X because of his viewpoints Musk tells them to F-off. He doesn't need them and then he goes on to succeed in every venture he's involved in. Same with Roy. When the coach keeps him out on the ice to embarrass him during a blowout he walks right up to the President of the Canadiens and announces that it was going to be his last game as Montreal Canadien and then he goes on to lead his new team to his 3rd Stanley Cup a few months later. That's a winner folks.
When Roy left the Colorado Avalanche he stated publicly unabashedly why he left so there's no misunderstanding:
"I have thought long and hard over the course of the summer about how I might improve this team to give it the depth it needs and bring it to a higher level. To achieve this, the vision of the coach and V-P of hockey operations needs to be perfectly aligned with that of the organization. He must also have a say in the decisions that impact the team’s performance. These conditions are not currently met." Patrick Roy
There's no reason to believe that this is not something he still believes in to this day. And from some of the earlier public statements he made about Lou along the lines of "this is the team Lou gave me" is just putting Lou on notice that he needs more from his GM. He doesn't give a crap if Lou fires him or he wouldn't have made that statement. He wants to win at all costs and if you hired him as the coach you better give him the tools to get the job done.
It's one thing to speak like a fool publicly and criticize someone and its another to back it up with action. Both Roy and Musk have the ability to back up what they say with results. Whether it's the Conn Smythes, the Stanley Cups, Jack Adam award Roy can back it up. More recently to feed his appetite for winning Roy purchased QMJHL Quebec Ramparts for 2 million dollars and won the Championship the first year 1997 (selling the team in 2014 for 25 million dollars) but as with all teams the team eventually needed to be rebuilt and more recently he stepped also in as GM and coach of the team leading the team to win the National Championship last year before stepping down. Roy left the team in better shape than on the day he purchased it and made a cool 20+ million dollars in the process. Hockey pundits say the team was so well managed and coached that it was one of the most dominant and formidable teams ever assembled in the history of the QMJHL. It was like NHL team that ran over all other junior teams and that's all Roy.
And that's why I trust Roy. He would rather die on his sword for his team or its fans before losing. Just as important he stated he wants the hockey to be exciting for us fans to watch. He doesn't need the money. He's a self made multi-millionare. He hates losing that much and he's stated this publicly. Why wouldn't you want someone this passionate about winning to lead your team? Why wouldn't you want a guy like this as your coach unless you are a slacker? He tries to instill a winning culture and mentality on teams he coaches or played on. They got to want it though but that's what made our Dynasty Islanders so great and the teams Roy played on, GM'd, or coached so great. The will to win, and the hate of losing.
He needs more time, but I trust (if the GM does his job) Roy will succeed as he always does.
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Glory Days
Registered User
Rebuild, Retool - whatever.....I will call it a remodel.3-5 years sounds more like a retool to me.
The team needs solid change and updating to bring it up to today's standards.
How's that.
Glory Days
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Rehabguy
In ROY I trust
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Here's a wonderful article about Roy from his former teammates about what kind a man he was, his hate of losing, and his passion for hockey.
Roy knows how to win
Here's 29 yo 3X Vezina winning goaltender who buys a hockey team at that young age and between his starts as a goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning champs he's coaching/managing the team he purchased from his apartment. Who does that? On top of that I read that he's a fanatical hockey card collector and spends apparently much of his little off time dealing in hockey cards. It just shows you the passion he has for the game. He's not your regular goaltender turned coach/gm. I mean what was Lambert doing at 29 years of age between games. Probably picking his nose at some sleazy bar.
Roy knows how to win
Here's 29 yo 3X Vezina winning goaltender who buys a hockey team at that young age and between his starts as a goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning champs he's coaching/managing the team he purchased from his apartment. Who does that? On top of that I read that he's a fanatical hockey card collector and spends apparently much of his little off time dealing in hockey cards. It just shows you the passion he has for the game. He's not your regular goaltender turned coach/gm. I mean what was Lambert doing at 29 years of age between games. Probably picking his nose at some sleazy bar.
impaaaaaact
Registered User
Yep, this is the guy that you want to keep around the org and most costs. That might mean giving him an AGM title or something when they lose Lou. I’m not opposed as long as the GM has a little experience
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
Problem is Roy wasn't hired to come in and right a ship, or develop young players, or anything that coaches are hired for on struggling teams. He was brought in to contend. Islanders aren't contending, so he's part of the problem.
Hey, if he was brought in and Islanders had already started a rebuild, I'd be more patient. But, to come in you'd expect to see improvement somewhere. Where has there been any improvement?
Blowing third period leads - no improvement
Power play - no improvement
Penalty kill - no improvement
I mean, realistically is there anything we can say Roy is doing well?
Hey, if he was brought in and Islanders had already started a rebuild, I'd be more patient. But, to come in you'd expect to see improvement somewhere. Where has there been any improvement?
Blowing third period leads - no improvement
Power play - no improvement
Penalty kill - no improvement
I mean, realistically is there anything we can say Roy is doing well?
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
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3-5 years sounds more like a retool to me.
I agree with your first post above! Seriously, I usually add "tear down" before rebuild to make it clear that's what most people mean when they say "rebuild". Trade away assets, compile picks, tank to get high picks and basically start over. That takes more like 7-8 years. Pretty much anything else it a "retool", IMO.
Re: Roy, he's a passionate guy, which I like. But I don't see a reason to hand him the keys as GM, and as a practical matter if a new GM (without the last name "Lamoriello") comes in, you get a new coach.
Glory Days
Registered User
I agree with your retool and rebuild definitions. I would also say I’m firmly in the retool camp but with a new GM. Nelson, Palms, Lee and Pageau will all be off the books by the end of next year. Draft picks or prospects can be had for those expiring contracts. The prospect pool can be replenished. The cap room can be better utilized. There can be a lot for a new GM to work with help retool. Quite frankly this is what most GM’s should be doing on a regular basis.
Rehabguy
In ROY I trust
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A retool to me is clearly the way to go. If Vancouver is asking for Dobson and Nelson for Elias Pettersson I would ask for Pettersson and a late 1st round pick. Maybe the Isles can sweeten the deal with one of our decent prospects. It's too bad because Dobson has a lot of potential but his soft approach to the defensive side of the game is concerning. It would be worth the trade IMO to seek Pettersson and a late 1st round pick. The trade really being Pettersson for Dobson to address the headache Vancouver is dealing with between Elias and JT Miller and the headache the Isles are dealing with Dobson's recent poor play. Nelson is the wild card center that Vancouver needs IF they were to make the playoffs this year. The late 1st round pick is compensation for Nelson. Seems fair to me. For the Isles, Pettersson would fill the void left by Nelson and get the team a little younger and at this point any one of our young D can step in for Dobson. (George)
But this isn't gonna happen because you know, it's Lou.
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LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
Why would you even waste time linking a video, lol. What a douche move. Yes, Lou brought him in because he thought the team should be one contending. He didn't bring Roy in to develop a team full of young players, or work with a rebuilding team. Perhaps using the 'right the ship' was not the right term, but if you had any lick of reading comprehension talent, you would have gotten the point. Go back to YouTube.
And next time have courage to reply to my post instead of just typing underneath hoping I don't see it.
Rehabguy
In ROY I trust
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I’m an old douche and I figured this child won’t get the quote unless I posted the video so…
Oh I got the point all right and your point sorry to say was pretty lame. Everybody knows Roy was brought in to fix a struggling team if not why replace Lambert? Your point makes no sense whatsover.
