MadArcand
Whaletarded
Yeah, you're right. Doesn't change what I said in the whole post. As another decisive victory is posted for Lundqvist...
Guess you Lundqvistitis is incurable.
![laugh :laugh: :laugh:](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif)
Yeah, you're right. Doesn't change what I said in the whole post. As another decisive victory is posted for Lundqvist...
The stat: 47-24-8 (or whatever) fails to capture the context of the situation - that's a frequent occurrence in hockey.
Guess you Lundqvistitis is incurable.![]()
Side note: I assume you're absolutely unaware of it, but your sentence comes very close in wording & meaning to a quote by Johan Cruyff, one of the best soccer players and coaches ever: "Often a result is confused with the situation".
I guess great minds think alike.![]()
![]()
I'd be lying if I said I knew who that was
Side note: I assume you're absolutely unaware of it, but your sentence comes very close in wording & meaning to a quote by Johan Cruyff, one of the best soccer players and coaches ever: "Often a result is confused with the situation".
I guess great minds think alike.![]()
![]()
That's because of what you said in the post before: "I'm American".
I think the Cruyff quote shows that it's actually a frequent occurence in teams sports in general.
Among the early guys, I have LeSueur over Connell.
I've got him ranked 12th on my all-time greatest soccer player list.
Don't know if this will surprise you or not, but that's the right order imo. LeSueur's innovation cred (obviously a real mind for the game, as could probably be said for many of the early day player/coaches) trumps Connell's proven ability to excel before and after forward pass changes (less fame from his early success in Ottawa than later in Montreal, though)... or at least that's largely how it boils down for me, given lack of great separation between them in terms of championships, commonly discussed awards, etc - or even era, for that matter.
You need to expand your circle beyond the stats community. The undercounting in NJ was a running joke by Doc Emrick on local broadcasts for years in early 00s. It went like this - after a flurry of shots on goal, the game would go to commercial. Emrick: "and as we head to commercial, shots are 1-0 in favor of NJ. -laughs- well it certainly seems like more than that!" And then he and the broadcast partner would laugh. Seriously, you never heard anyone mention shot counting in New Jersey before the stats community starting taking it seriously in 2009? TheContrarianGoaltender can back this up - I'm sure he got a lot of irate email from NJ fans complaining about how his use of save percentages was underrating Brodeur because of rampant undercounting in NJ. You know why? Because it was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched the team on a regular basis that more shots were being directed towards net than were being recorded.
Recording bias in N.J is about 7%. It's not, and probably never was, blatantly obvious.
And even if N.J. fans were generally privy to it, there's no evidence that GMs were.
another good example is mike vernon in '95.
mike vernon
19-6-4
.893 sv% (44th among all 68 goalies, and 35th of 49 goalies with 10 games)
2.52 GAA
1 SO
vernon's backup osgood
14-5-0
.917 (2nd to hasek)
2.26
1 SO
osgood had a much easier schedule
Some stats for Ottawa in 1930-31.
Player|GP|MIN|W|L|T|GA|GAA|SO|H GP|H MIN|H W|H L|H T|H GA|H GAA|H SO|R GP|R MIN|R W|R L|R T|R GA|R GAA|RSO
Beveridge|9|520|0|8|0|32|3.69|0|6|340|0|5|0|15|2.65|0|3|180|0|3|0|17|5.67|0
Connell|36|2190|10|22|4|110|3.01|3|17|1020|6|9|2|49|2.88|2|19|1170|4|13|2|61|3.13|1
For games I found shot totals for
Player|GP|MIN|W|L|T|GA|GAA|SOG|SV%|SO|SOG/60|H GP|H MIN|H W|H L|H T|H GA|H GAA|H SOG|H SV%|H SO|H SOG/60|R GP|R MIN|R W|R L|R T|R GA|R GAA|R SOG|R SV%|R SO|SOG/60
Beveridge|7|400|0|6|0|23|3.45|191|.880|0|28.65|6|340|0|5|0|15|2.65|159|.906|0|25.41|1|60|0|1|0|8|8.00|32|.750|0|32.00
Connell|20|1200|5|12|3|51|2.55|694|.927|1|34.70|12|710|3|7|2|31|2.62|381|.919|0|32.20|8|490|2|5|1|20|2.45|313|.936|1|38.33
When you watch a game of hockey, a large number of shots come in short spurts. And that's when it was blatantly obvious that the scorekeeper wasn't counting them. This was back before most "mainstream" fans cared about save percentages, so it was funny when you'd notice from time to time.
Some stats for Ottawa in 1930-31.
Player|GP|MIN|W|L|T|GA|GAA|SO|H GP|H MIN|H W|H L|H T|H GA|H GAA|H SO|R GP|R MIN|R W|R L|R T|R GA|R GAA|RSO
Beveridge|9|520|0|8|0|32|3.69|0|6|340|0|5|0|15|2.65|0|3|180|0|3|0|17|5.67|0
Connell|36|2190|10|22|4|110|3.01|3|17|1020|6|9|2|49|2.88|2|19|1170|4|13|2|61|3.13|1
For games I found shot totals for
Player|GP|MIN|W|L|T|GA|GAA|SOG|SV%|SO|SOG/60|H GP|H MIN|H W|H L|H T|H GA|H GAA|H SOG|H SV%|H SO|H SOG/60|R GP|R MIN|R W|R L|R T|R GA|R GAA|R SOG|R SV%|R SO|SOG/60
Beveridge|7|400|0|6|0|23|3.45|191|.880|0|28.65|6|340|0|5|0|15|2.65|159|.906|0|25.41|1|60|0|1|0|8|8.00|32|.750|0|32.00
Connell|20|1200|5|12|3|51|2.55|694|.927|1|34.70|12|710|3|7|2|31|2.62|381|.919|0|32.20|8|490|2|5|1|20|2.45|313|.936|1|38.33
That's some acute - quasi-robotic, really - perception that you and other Devils fans have been blessed with. Oh, and in looking below your post, apparently Mikey F too.
In any event, you guys (save for BM67, as he probably ran the numbers himself) should be thankful that the statheads bothered to actually investigate the matter, through analyzing the data which was available to everyone, and validating your self-serving conjecture.
After all, it's allowed reasonable people everywhere to recognize that Martin Brodeur isn't grossly overrated, but only moderately so!
That's some acute - quasi-robotic, really - perception that you and other Devils fans have been blessed with. Oh, and in looking below your post, apparently Mikey F too.
In any event, you guys (save for BM67, as he probably ran the numbers himself) should be thankful that the statheads bothered to actually investigate the matter, through analyzing the data which was available to everyone, and validating your self-serving conjecture.
After all, it's allowed reasonable people everywhere to recognize that Martin Brodeur isn't grossly overrated, but only moderately so!
That's some acute - quasi-robotic, really - perception that you and other Devils fans have been blessed with. Oh, and in looking below your post, apparently Mikey F too.
In any event, you guys (save for BM67, as he probably ran the numbers himself) should be thankful that the statheads bothered to actually investigate the matter, through analyzing the data which was available to everyone, and validating your self-serving conjecture.
After all, it's allowed reasonable people everywhere to recognize that Martin Brodeur isn't grossly overrated, but only moderately so!
It doesn't matter whether the GMs knew or not really...a .918 or .920 save pct. would have had no effect on their decision...the talent and impact was the thing that was blatantly obvious...
People paying close attention realized the shots were wonky (a non-Devils fan typing this message realized, so did Doc but I think he figured that some shots were blocked by the "unseen hand")...what can you do...
It's Brodeur's presence in a hockey game that was the most blatantly obvious thing to me. Worth the price of admission.
Wow!!!
I can honestly say, having seen Brodeur play live maybe a dozen times, I've never felt the presence.