Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[CupHolders]

I watched Dobson in the Q and he played the exact same game with the exact same strengths and weaknesses. He was never a defensive stalwart and was the same offensive defenseman he is now.

The only saving grace for him in the Q was that it wasn’t very physical so he didn't fold under pressure as much, however, he was always soft in his own zone.

That said, I loved him as a prospect and always thought he could improve that part of his game. Unfortunately, he hasn't.

True, I only watched a handful of his junior games (all playoffs). And most things are on a range of degrees over absolutes. So to be clear, I’m not suggesting he was some kind of Scott Stevens defensive stalwart.

Most scouting from that time frame mentioned his need to bulk up. And yes, Dobson as skinny rangy kid likely benefited from playing similarly underdeveloped junior players.

But me calling him a minute eating defensive backbone of memorial cup teams was based on his coaches comments (could play top pair minutes) and his playoff minute usage (often around 30min a game).

One lengthy article from back in the day that touched upon some of the above:

The Road Less Travelled

 

[Osakahaus]

True, I only watched a handful of his junior games (all playoffs). And most things are on a range of degrees over absolutes. So to be clear, I’m not suggesting he was some kind of Scott Stevens defensive stalwart.

Most scouting from that time frame mentioned his need to bulk up. And yes, Dobson as skinny rangy kid likely benefited from playing similarly underdeveloped junior players.

But me calling him a minute eating defensive backbone of memorial cup teams was based on his coaches comments (could play top pair minutes) and his playoff minute usage (often around 30min a game).

One lengthy article from back in the day that touched upon some of the above:

the biggest issue with Dobson is that he cannot play scared. When he gets scared, the game is over. thats the biggest issue with him.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I subscribe to the Eric DeCosta school. You never strip it down to rebuild and your goal is to make the playoffs every year, because once you’re in anything can happen.

I have no interest in stripping it to the bone and spinning the wheel of fortune to see if you get lucky enough to draft a franchise player or two over a half decade+ of ugly losing seasons with absolutely no guarantee you’ll ever come close to building a “contender”.

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Give me at minimum a shot at the playoffs every year. Retool as you go.

The extensive list of failed rebuilds, including our own, should make it abundantly clear that rebuilding is a failing strategy.

 

[IslesNorway]

Who's advocating for a rebuild? There's no need for the Isles to rebuild. I think we all agree that this roster can be better by a few tweaks and smart moves. I'd trade Dobson for Robertson and I could entertain trading down from 1 to 2 for a heavy overpayment, but the most important bits is getting rid of the deadwood and not signing stupid deals in free agency.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

they have zero intention of changing their mind - No matter what data is shared (as they'll just morph into whatever serves your opinion).

Do we just leave this here or...

 

[SI]

the biggest issue with Dobson is that he cannot play scared. When he gets scared, the game is over. thats the biggest issue with him.

Apologies but I hate posts like this.

 

[SI]

Even those with the most limited observation skills know that when someone says, "Change my mind," they have zero intention of changing their mind - No matter what data is shared (as they'll just morph into whatever serves your opinion).

Don't fret though...None of this changes the fact you're a super nice guy.

Also don't forget to call San Jose and Chicago and tell the NHL teams there that because they started a total rebuild (*post 2015) that they have zero hope of ever winning a Cup again.

The Sharks have missed the playoffs for the last 6 seasons and will most likely miss next season and the year after that. The Hawks have missed the last 5 seasons and are also nowhere near a playoff berth.

The truth is, if the Isles went to rebuild, we are looking at 2032 as a playoff team.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The Sharks have missed the playoffs for the last 6 seasons and will most likely miss next season and the year after that. The Hawks have missed the last 5 seasons and are also nowhere near a playoff berth.

The truth is, if the Isles went to rebuild, we are looking at 2032 as a playoff team.

What people want I feel like is a Garth Snow era rebuild. There is no way to tear it down, rebuild it all, and compete in 3 years. It simply is not possible.

 

[mm11]

im too old for a full rebuild so that clears it up. Were going to retool unlike the fastest rebuild the boys from Gotham did . LGI

 

[Konk]

True, I only watched a handful of his junior games (all playoffs). And most things are on a range of degrees over absolutes. So to be clear, I’m not suggesting he was some kind of Scott Stevens defensive stalwart.

Most scouting from that time frame mentioned his need to bulk up. And yes, Dobson as skinny rangy kid likely benefited from playing similarly underdeveloped junior players.

But me calling him a minute eating defensive backbone of memorial cup teams was based on his coaches comments (could play top pair minutes) and his playoff minute usage (often around 30min a game).

One lengthy article from back in the day that touched upon some of the above:

The Road Less Travelled

That is a good point, he does thrive with more ice time. I believe that was a big reason for his 70 point year, when he was being trusted with a lot more ice time than he was last year. If he receives similar ice time next season I think that will only help him rediscover his form from two years ago, but he has to earn it.

My disagreement stemmed from your claim that his defensive and offensive abilities have flipped, suggesting a fundamental shift from a defensive to an offensive defenseman. However, he has always been an offensive defenseman with the same weaknesses -- only now more pronounced at the professional level.

With that said, he was more reliable defensively in the Q than he has been in the NHL. He has been completely unreliable at times in the NHL.

 

[beach]

Who's advocating for a rebuild? There's no need for the Isles to rebuild. I think we all agree that this roster can be better by a few tweaks and smart moves. I'd trade Dobson for Robertson and I could entertain trading down from 1 to 2 for a heavy overpayment, but the most important bits is getting rid of the deadwood and not signing stupid deals in free agency.

How do you define rebuild? The Isles' 3rd and 4th lines suck. Pageau doesn't score enough to be 2nd line center. Pelech, Pulock, and Mayfield are in decline on D. We don't know if Varly will be able to play going forward and able to play well.

 

[TeamKidd]

The Real Question We Need to Ask:


What does this team actually need to become a legitimate Stanley Cup contender?
What do we need to be a consistent, high-level competitor year after year?


Obviously, landing a generational talent is one route—teams like Pittsburgh and Edmonton have benefited immensely from drafting Crosby and McDavid. But for the majority of franchises, that kind of luck simply doesn’t happen.


So what’s a more realistic path forward for us?


Current State of the Team:


Our biggest strength—the one area that’s truly Cup Contender Caliber (CCC)—is goaltending. Sorokin is absolutely elite. No question. He's CCC.


But what about the forward group?


Our two best forwards are Horvat and Barzal. They’re excellent players and great complementary pieces, but in a true contender’s lineup, they’re likely your third and fourth-best forwards, not your top two.

NEED: A true #1 center and a true #1 goal scorer

On defense, we have some nice pieces and decent depth, but we’re missing a clear-cut #1 all-star caliber defenseman.
Dobson has shown flashes but hasn’t yet proven he can carry that load. Pelech and Pulock can’t stay healthy enough to be relied on. Romanov is solid, but we desperately need more offensive punch and skating ability on the blue line.

NEED: A true #1, top-pairing defenseman

---

So let’s cut through the noise.
Forget the hypotheticals and esoteric team-building theories.


The question is simple: How do we acquire these three key players?


If you truly believe Schaefer (or Misa) can become one of those foundational pieces, you do not trade back unless you’re getting a serious return—something like the possibility of acquiring two of the three key needs. And frankly, I doubt Chicago (or anyone else) is making that kind of offer.

Get those players.
Build the pipeline.
See the success.

 

[periferal]

SJ was forced into a rebuild after going for it for years and years and coming up short. They had a really long run, maybe they just relied on some very good players that just don’t have the extra gear to be a winner. Too bad. They were bone dry when the lightbulb went on.

Chicago won and was fading, the off ice drama gave them a reason to bottom out, but they were going there soon enough anyway.

When people reference these teams, they elected rebuilds for specific reasons and also after years of success and winning. They didn’t just miss the playoffs and go ‘time to rebuild’ - the swell was coming anyway.

The point isn't why a team might go through a rebuild.

The issue is...Some people here think that if you rebuild, you cannot win a Cup.

So according to these few knowledgable hockey fans...Despite being backed into a rebuild, Chicago and San Jose will unfortunately never win a Cup again.

Legit don't know what their fans buy tickets or ownership employs so many front office staff as they're just wasting time and could save so much money.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

You have too many long term deals on the books to do an actual rebuild. Aside from the real crappers (5 years left on the Mayfield/Engvall deals and 3 on Duclairs') you got 6-5-4 years left on Horvat, Pulock and Pelech's deals too as they all turn 30.

Barzal (28) and Sorokin (29) are just getting started on their long term deals as well (6 and 7 years left) and they aren't exactly young chickens anymore....

Again, I am not in love with the Palms deal because of his age, but I can live with 2 years and 4.75 million per for someone who has played all 82 games and averaged 27 goals and 50 points the last two seasons.

As far as the rest of the offseason goes it is pretty simple really- no bad contracts handed out to peeps over 30 and getting younger and faster with any other moves we make.

Personally, I am not trading our two young RFA defenseman unless I am getting players equally young or younger with upside.

Lou shat the bed with "trusting in this team" and made it nearly impossible to do a rebuild. So, you try and move 2 of your blueliners (ones signed already long term in SM/AP/RP or due a big raise in ND and AR) and/or JGP and influx some young good talent on this roster- with our draft picks or via trades...

It is a retool and there isn't too much we can do about it really- just don't make it worse

 

[seabass45]

The extensive list of failed rebuilds, including our own, should make it abundantly clear that rebuilding is a failing strategy.

Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington, Tampa, Florida, Colorado, even St. Louis and LA went with rebuilds in one form or another.

Just because we blew it with a bunch of top five picks doesn't mean it didn't work for other teams.

 

[The Real JT]

Today’s reality check. We are most likely a lottery team next season.

I’m glad that Nelson was traded to restock our asset pool. With that being said, his absence makes us a worse team. Our prospect pool is much better, but we can’t realistically expect any of them to contribute next season. We continue to have no identifiable first pairing defenseman. We do not have any elite scorers. Some of our trusted veterans are at the point in their careers where based on age alone their play may noticeably deteriorate. On a final positive note, Sorokin is a stud despite some hiccups over the course of this prior season.

In no way am I suggesting that we tear this down and completely rebuild. I’d give this squad a chance to compete, but if we are at best a bubble playoff team at the TDL then I can only hope that the new GM is a seller assuming we have assets of value at that time.

 

[periferal]

The extensive list of failed rebuilds, including our own, should make it abundantly clear that rebuilding is a failing strategy.

What's abundantly clear is that if you have bad ownership/management you will never win whether you're rebuilding, retooling, or going all in. You're really going to use inept humans like Charles Wang/Garth Snow and Terry Pegula/Kevyn Adams as reasons why rebuilds can never work?

Would like to hear you give your "magic bullet" explanation as to how over the past 20 years the Penguins, Blackhawks, Lightning, Avalanche all won Cups...

I wish those few "Never rebuild under any circumstance" fans would just admit they don't want to go through 3-5 years of the pain of sucking before things get better.

 

[boredmale]

So according to these few knowledgable hockey fans...Despite being backed into a rebuild, Chicago and San Jose will unfortunately never win a Cup again.

Odds are they won't. In the past 20 years we had 13 different Cup winners which means way more losers.

The one issue I see with these teams is it's great to build a solid core of forwards but you need to surround them properly. I look at the Blackhawks victories in the 2010s. What made them great was the fact they had a bunch of defenseman drafted in the early 2000s who were hitting their peak just as Kane and Toews where starting to hit their peak. The combo was instant Stanley cup success

If I was purposefully trying to build the best possible team I could using high draft picks, I would start off by drafting defense first, which probably means we stink for a few extra years(since defense takes longer to reach it's peak) where I draft forwards

Hindsite being 20/20 we would have been better off drafting Hedman in 2009 not because he ended up the better player 10 years after the fact but because it means are team would have been worse in 2010, 2011 and 2012 thus meaning we probably end up with better players then we ended up in those drafts

 

[periferal]

The Sharks have missed the playoffs for the last 6 seasons and will most likely miss next season and the year after that. The Hawks have missed the last 5 seasons and are also nowhere near a playoff berth.

I agree that if you decide to rebuild you're looking at 3-5 years of sucking. But...Given how they're currently constructed the Isles could get 1-2 high picks (top 5) and totally change things around and not need to be bad that long. Getting (lucky) with the #1 pick this year is an example of that. The Blackhawks drafted Toews in 2006 and Kane in 2007 (both in top 3), and won the Cup in 2010.

The truth is, if the Isles went to rebuild, we are looking at 2032 as a playoff team.

Well since you know the future....What if the Isles keep going for it until 2032 and never get past the 1st round of the playoffs, and now their "core" is all in the mid/late 30's (or retired).

At some point whether you want it or not, if you can't replace your aging talent (which might not be that great) with younger homegrown/drafted talent, you're going to wind up sucking to the point of getting top 10 picks whether you decide to go that route or not.

The funny thing is that for all the "never rebuild" fans out there...Lou's "sell the future/go all in with average talent" plan had us on this path to a "forced rebuild," and Darche might actually save us from it.

 

[periferal]

Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington, Tampa, Florida, Colorado, even St. Louis and LA went with rebuilds in one form or another.

Just because we blew it with a bunch of top five picks doesn't mean it didn't work for other teams.

A-MEN.

I'd even take Washington and St. Louis off that list if you're talking true rebuild.

That said every one of those teams had a key part of their team drafted in the top 5 - If not several of them. And to draft those player(s) required having truly terrible season(s) to earn those top pick(s).

Call that a rebuild, a retool, or just regular roster construction...The data supports the idea that in order to become a true Cup contender you need to have homegrown talent, which means you need to hit on your draft picks, and some of those picks need to be near the very very top of the draft.

 

[TeamKidd]

A-MEN.

I'd even take Washington and St. Louis off that list if you're talking true rebuild.

That said every one of those teams had a key part of their team drafted in the top 5 - If not several of them. And to draft those player(s) required having truly terrible season(s) to earn those top pick(s).

Call that a rebuild, a retool, or just regular roster construction...The data supports the idea that in order to become a true Cup contender you need to have homegrown talent, which means you need to hit on your draft picks, and some of those picks need to be near the very very top of the draft.

The question is, what does a rebuild vs retool mean? what do you get for trading your best players? how do you hit on your draft picks? Some of the isles issues with the isles past rebuilds were that they didnt hit on their picks - which in part was bad luck. MDC was a fine pick given the circumstances, he just didnt work out.

To me, barzal, sorokin, maybe horvat are young enough that they could be pieces moving forward. Given our needs, im really not for a complete tear down. If more of a retool/trim the fat is done well- we hit on this #1 pick, trade off extraneous pieces at this deadline, get another top 10 pick next year, something good with COL's pick, and another couple of 2nd rounders- we are well on our way to a better pipeline and success.

But a complete gut, trading barzal and sorokin for draft picks in the hopes you eventually develop a player as good as either one of them, seems silly. Sure every player is tradable, but what are we getting for them and how does that address our biggest needs?

Every situation and team is unique, to apply a blanket philosophy to specific situations is dangerous. Most of those teams that went thru a full rebuild was because they had to - they had nothing left but old expensive players. we arent exactly in that situation - so why apply that exact philosophy?

 

[SI]

All this smoke around Jason Robertson - could a Dobson for Robertson hockey trade be the ticket?
Or Pulock, 2026 1st (Colorado), + for Robertson, is it possible?

If it is Dobson, then Matt Grzelyck makes sense as free agent signing.
If it is Pulock, it is just a DeAngelo signing and move on

 

[IslesNorway]

A great start to a rebuild, whatever form you choose, is amassing picks in a strong draft. If 2026 is great, then they should be looking at acquiring picks in that draft. The 1st overall this year is a kickstarter but following it up by selling off Lee and Pageau during the season should give us maybe 3 or 4 high picks and maybe more.

 

[beach]

A great start to a rebuild, whatever form you choose, is amassing picks in a strong draft. If 2026 is great, then they should be looking at acquiring picks in that draft. The 1st overall this year is a kickstarter but following it up by selling off Lee and Pageau during the season should give us maybe 3 or 4 high picks and maybe more.

I don't think Pags will still be here come Oct.

 

[MarsTBOW]

Dobson for Robertson straight up.
Sign Tony D for short term.
Draft Schaeffer...