Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Osakahaus]

1) We agreed so you shouldn't have mentioned his signing in your original post

2) I said nothing about trading them, I said getting rid of their contracts. I agree however that I see no real reason to do that UNLESS it is to sign someone who is talented and YOUNG. I agree we do NOT add assets to trade them...period. I don't however have any problem with the low cap hit (even for ten years) if and when they have to be bought out

3) Lee and JGP have MODIFIED trade stipulations not full trade clauses. Most players who are traded have these and WITHOUT A DOUBT they need to be moved NO LATER THAN THE DEADLINE NEXT SEASON. And no, with a rather bleak FA market, the market will be more robust than usual for those two BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPIRING DEALS. I do however agree that they will be even more attractive come deadline time- assuming they don't drop off a map (also possible)

4) Much more likely to be 18 than 20 is the ONLY point I was making, but your dooms day comment had the highest end possible outlook

5) Again, for anyone willing to take a short deal and is YOUNG. Don't need the cap space really it was in reference to you saying we couldn't create any while signing our RFA's....which is simply not the case

6) That just simply isn't true. You would expect 20-25 games as a backup to Sorokin and he has AVERAGED 27 starts in his 6 years as an Islander. most of it doing that very thing. Sure, we need a better #3 than we currently have- but it is not an automatic by any shape or form that Semyon can't return and give us that

7) Different? Not sure what you mean by that. Different in that we are focusing on our long term success....Yes, most definitely. Better? Hell, not very hard (with whatever roster we wind up with) then to be better than the suckage we were last season. Just a better return to form Sorokin, healthy Barzal, and infusion of young talent would in my eyes make us better...so yes, I will take those odds. If you mean compete for a chip- no that isn't likely to happen even if you do something dramatic like trade Romanov like you suggest

8) Yes, it isn't going to help us CONTEND NEXT SEASON- but of COURSE replacing some of the dead weight on the roster (which makes up half of it) and replacing them with YOUTH and UPSIDE is in fact going to help us in the long term- even if only a couple pan out

In short, I am not overly concerned with what we do with the cap this season but the game plan remains the same:

X) Acquire young assets and do not trade the good ones you have (and yes both Dobbie and Romanov would fall into that category)

X) Keep and ONLY ADD TO the draft picks you currently have

X) Unload ASAP/when it is most ideal the contracts you can that don't figure into our future...in this order:

1. Engvall
2. Mayfield
3. Duclair
4. JGP
5. Lee
6. Cizikas
7. Pulock/Pelech

It isn't rocket science...

the biggest issue is that the islanders arent attractive to work with right now

 

[Schaefer48]

There is a lot of reshaping that needs to happen soon, not sure who they have eyes on , but they better decide soon on a Lou replacement.

 

[Strickland]

1) We agreed so you shouldn't have mentioned his signing in your original post

2) I said nothing about trading them, I said getting rid of their contracts. I agree however that I see no real reason to do that UNLESS it is to sign someone who is talented and YOUNG. I agree we do NOT add assets to trade them...period. I don't however have any problem with the low cap hit (even for ten years) if and when they have to be bought out

3) Lee and JGP have MODIFIED trade stipulations not full trade clauses. Most players who are traded have these and WITHOUT A DOUBT they need to be moved NO LATER THAN THE DEADLINE NEXT SEASON. And no, with a rather bleak FA market, the market will be more robust than usual for those two BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPIRING DEALS. I do however agree that they will be even more attractive come deadline time- assuming they don't drop off a map (also possible)

4) Much more likely to be 18 than 20 is the ONLY point I was making, but your dooms day comment had the highest end possible outlook

5) Again, for anyone willing to take a short deal and is YOUNG. Don't need the cap space really it was in reference to you saying we couldn't create any while signing our RFA's....which is simply not the case

6) That just simply isn't true. You would expect 20-25 games as a backup to Sorokin and he has AVERAGED 27 starts in his 6 years as an Islander. most of it doing that very thing. Sure, we need a better #3 than we currently have- but it is not an automatic by any shape or form that Semyon can't return and give us that

7) Different? Not sure what you mean by that. Different in that we are focusing on our long term success....Yes, most definitely. Better? Hell, not very hard (with whatever roster we wind up with) then to be better than the suckage we were last season. Just a better return to form Sorokin, healthy Barzal, and infusion of young talent would in my eyes make us better...so yes, I will take those odds. If you mean compete for a chip- no that isn't likely to happen even if you do something dramatic like trade Romanov like you suggest

8) Yes, it isn't going to help us CONTEND NEXT SEASON- but of COURSE replacing some of the dead weight on the roster (which makes up half of it) and replacing them with YOUTH and UPSIDE is in fact going to help us in the long term- even if only a couple pan out

In short, I am not overly concerned with what we do with the cap this season but the game plan remains the same:

X) Acquire young assets and do not trade the good ones you have (and yes both Dobbie and Romanov would fall into that category)

X) Keep and ONLY ADD TO the draft picks you currently have

X) Unload ASAP/when it is most ideal the contracts you can that don't figure into our future...in this order:

1. Engvall
2. Mayfield
3. Duclair
4. JGP
5. Lee
6. Cizikas
7. Pulock/Pelech

It isn't rocket science...

1) I only mentioned Palms because you have to. The team is rumored to have a handshake extension with him. Does the next GM honor it? I dunno! I sure hope not.

2) You don't buy those guys out until you desperately need the cap space. I think you can squeeze two more years out of them before you can't even bury them anymore. Duclair would only have one year left at that point so probably could move him if you've rebuilt right and are in win now mode.

3) Again, Lee and JGP are deadline day deals. They're far likelier to waive for the best return at the deadline, rather than in the summer. And you're gonna get the best return at the deadline, provided they're healthy.

4) The "doomsday" outlook is $2 million more a year on the cap. $700k a player. C'mon. Stop.

5) They can't create MEANINGFUL cap space while signing their RFAs. Ehlers? Marner? Can't sign them and your RFAs at the same time. Not without doing something stupid.

6) Varly is 37 years old coming off a major injury. How can he be relied upon for anything? Who, with any modicum of intelligence, would count on anything from him at all?

7) If you want to focus on long term success, and you should, then you should rebuild. The universe has given you a boon. Matthew Schaefer fell in your laps. Do what you can to surround him with more elite young talent. You have assets to do it, so go do it. And ensure another high pick next season by sucking. Even more than this year.

8) I'm agnostic on trading Dobson and Romanov. If you can move out Pulock for some good assets, by all means do it. I just don't think you can do it. Maybe Horvat, who doesn't have deep ties to the area, will waive. And if he does, then move him. Even in a retool, you're 2 years away from anything and a 32 year old Horvat has more value for what he can get this summer than what he'll do for Calum Ritchie or (let us pray) Ryan Roobreck in 26-27.

You're advocating straddling the line between contention and rebuilding. I don't wanna straddle. Both feet in a rebuild. Do it well enough and get lucky and you can sit here next summer with more talent poised to make the team than it's had in decades, if ever.

 

[YearlyLottery]

1) I only mentioned Palms because you have to. The team is rumored to have a handshake extension with him. Does the next GM honor it? I dunno! I sure hope not.

2) You don't buy those guys out until you desperately need the cap space. I think you can squeeze two more years out of them before you can't even bury them anymore. Duclair would only have one year left at that point so probably could move him if you've rebuilt right and are in win now mode.

3) Again, Lee and JGP are deadline day deals. They're far likelier to waive for the best return at the deadline, rather than in the summer. And you're gonna get the best return at the deadline, provided they're healthy.

4) The "doomsday" outlook is $2 million more a year on the cap. $700k a player. C'mon. Stop.

5) They can't create MEANINGFUL cap space while signing their RFAs. Ehlers? Marner? Can't sign them and your RFAs at the same time. Not without doing something stupid.

6) Varly is 37 years old coming off a major injury. How can he be relied upon for anything? Who, with any modicum of intelligence, would count on anything from him at all.

7) If you want to focus on long term success, and you should, then you should rebuild. The universe has given you a boon. Matthew Schaefer fell in you laps. Do aht you can to surround him with more elite young talent. You have assets to do it, so go do it. And ensure another high pick next season by sucking. Even more than this year.

8) I'm agnostic on trading Dobson and Romanov. If you can move out Pulock for some good assets, by all means do it. I just don't think you can do it. Maybe Horvat, who doesn't have deep ties to the area, will waive. And if he does, then move him. Even in a retool, you're 2 years away from anything and a 32 year old Horvat has more value for what he can get this summer than what he'll do for Calum Ritchie or (let us pray) Ryan Roobreck in 26-27.

You're advocating straddling the line between contention and rebuilding. I don't wanna straddle. Both feet in a rebuild. Do it well enough and get lucky and you can sit here next summer with more talent poised to make the team than it's had in decades, if ever.

In this make believe world where one of Ehlers or Marner wants to be an Islander I sure hope we would forgo the maximum return on one of Lee/Pageau to make room for one of them.

 

[Strickland]

In this make believe world where one of Ehlers or Marner wants to be an Islander I sure hope we would forgo the maximum return on one of Lee/Pageau to make room for one of them.

Yeah thank god we won't have to find out. I want the maximum return.

 

[Osakahaus]

There is a lot of reshaping that needs to happen soon, not sure who they have eyes on , but they better decide soon on a Lou replacement.

they might be waiting a long time if the Stars stay in the race

 

[YearlyLottery]

they might be waiting a long time if the Stars stay in the race

In the grand scheme of things if they believe someone from Dallas should be the GM waiting a couple of weeks should not be the end of the world between having the right guy and not.

That being said, it is dumb to not allow management people take interviews. I can understand coaching staffs.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

We are a team much further from contention than a Marner would get us.

1) I only mentioned Palms because you have to. The team is rumored to have a handshake extension with him. Does the next GM honor it? I dunno! I sure hope not.

2) You don't buy those guys out until you desperately need the cap space. I think you can squeeze two more years out of them before you can't even bury them anymore. Duclair would only have one year left at that point so probably could move him if you've rebuilt right and are in win now mode.

3) Again, Lee and JGP are deadline day deals. They're far likelier to waive for the best return at the deadline, rather than in the summer. And you're gonna get the best return at the deadline, provided they're healthy.

4) The "doomsday" outlook is $2 million more a year on the cap. $700k a player. C'mon. Stop.

5) They can't create MEANINGFUL cap space while signing their RFAs. Ehlers? Marner? Can't sign them and your RFAs at the same time. Not without doing something stupid.

6) Varly is 37 years old coming off a major injury. How can he be relied upon for anything? Who, with any modicum of intelligence, would count on anything from him at all?

7) If you want to focus on long term success, and you should, then you should rebuild. The universe has given you a boon. Matthew Schaefer fell in your laps. Do what you can to surround him with more elite young talent. You have assets to do it, so go do it. And ensure another high pick next season by sucking. Even more than this year.

8) I'm agnostic on trading Dobson and Romanov. If you can move out Pulock for some good assets, by all means do it. I just don't think you can do it. Maybe Horvat, who doesn't have deep ties to the area, will waive. And if he does, then move him. Even in a retool, you're 2 years away from anything and a 32 year old Horvat has more value for what he can get this summer than what he'll do for Calum Ritchie or (let us pray) Ryan Roobreck in 26-27.

You're advocating straddling the line between contention and rebuilding. I don't wanna straddle. Both feet in a rebuild. Do it well enough and get lucky and you can sit here next summer with more talent poised to make the team than it's had in decades, if ever.

1. You could easily argue whether you had to mention him- what you cant dispute is of course I am going to respond to your mention

2. Until you have to is exactly what I referenced when saying get rid of them ASAP/when you can

3. They both have 15 and 16 team lists, so it is very possible no waving is necessary. I already said that both "could" get better returns at the deadline (a big risk though that their respective values would be better then)- but to label both of them as just deadline guys is just not true. In a weak FA market they will in fact be on a short list of available guys with a single year left on their deals. Either way, I conceded in both posts that deadline is an option (and quite possibly better but not just if they are healthy but if they have current value, which also is no sure thing)

4. Not sure what the argument is here, I used a more realistic 18 million (and dismissed the necessity of needing to sign Kyle) because you were being overly dramatic with us not having any cap space without trading one of our (few good assets) in RFA's....which simply isn't the case

5. I don't want meaningful cap space until we are contenders and netting one star isn't getting us there anyway, so if I am choosing one or the other it is to keep my young assets (RFA's) and not trying to net (and likely overpay just to get them to say yes) star....easy choice for me

6. I did say we need to sign a third, but unless he (SV) is going on the LTIR all season- especially with what we have on the roster- we should all hope he makes it back. Again, he has averaged over 27 starts- mainly serving as a backup his entire stent with us- he seems pretty determined to do so again and 37 is not end- all for netminders. The last two seasons alone you have had 160 such starts by goaltenders at that age or older...again, we are looking for 20-25 as a backup to Sorokin

7. They aren't rebuilding and one could argue that simply trading your young RFA's isn't doing that at all, especially if you are hanging on to much of your dead weight (PE, SM, AD and CC) and not able to trade the obvious other 3 (BH, PP, AP) because of their contracts and clauses (two of which actually have full NTC's)....that isn't rebuilding

8. They aren't likely trading Bo either, which will be extremely diffcult.

I dont agree I am straddling the fence just because I don't want to trade my few young assets I have. I am not wanting to go for it (clear space just to bid for a single star)...want to move my dead weight (at the best time), want to add ONLY young talent and keep my draft picks....period.

That is not straddling a fence....that is doing what we should have been doing all along

 

[Kevin27nyi]

Trading Horvat would be extremely easy. Many teams would kill to have him.

 

[Sparksrus3]

You never go full Buffalo Sabres

YEAH !!!! That was a bunch a BUFFALO CHIPS

 

[Chardo]

Why would you even want Marner? What has he ever done to deserve that lust?

 

[seabass45]

 

[boredmale]

Why would you even want Marner? What has he ever done to deserve that lust?

While still a longshot, it's more likely we sign Marner then get a better option in any other way to improve our anemic offense. Now I don't think it will happen but you can't say well since he isn;t McDavid let's not try make an effort,

You just hope in a different situation Marner can excel (ie maybe he will work better in terms of the playoffs on a team full of pluggers). Also for all the flack Marner get for his playoff performance he actually is a very good 2 way player

 

[miscs75]

Why would you even want Marner? What has he ever done to deserve that lust?

Personally I want Nylander if it’s anyone from the core 4.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Why would you even want Marner? What has he ever done to deserve that lust?

I think he'll perform better outside Toronto.

 

[SI]

Toronto would be crazy to resign both Tavares and Marner.

They need to resign Marner, but he may have other plans now.

I think Shanahan gets sacked.

 

[BMOK33]

Marner's playoff numbers are fairly bad, 50 points in 57 games but not many goals

 

[Throttle]

Chief did about a good a job as he could. However, to me, the issue with this ‘core’ and the team is it’s relying on guys that aren’t ‘it’ players.

I’ll track this back to the Dubas/Keefe regime that let the players ‘be themselves’ and fostered a poor mindset in these guys. The fact the Ryan O’Reilly had no interest in signing as a UFA was kinda telling.

(And Keefe is gonna do the same to the Devils since they have some of the same weak minded not ‘it’ players as well).

 

[PK Cronin]

Chief did about a good a job as he could. However, to me, the issue with this ‘core’ and the team is it’s relying on guys that aren’t ‘it’ players.

I’ll track this back to the Dubas/Keefe regime that let the players ‘be themselves’ and fostered a poor mindset in these guys. The fact the Ryan O’Reilly had no interest in signing as a UFA was kinda telling.

(And Keefe is gonna do the same to the Devils since they have some of the same weak minded not ‘it’ players as well).

The moment they started adding more grit and losing the high flying offense shit is when they finally started to seem like more of a threat and actually moved past the first round. Having all four of those guys was a mistake because they take up too much of the cap. They were always struggling to fill their defense or goaltending, year after year.

 

[SI]

Marner's playoff numbers are fairly bad, 50 points in 57 games but not many goals

Marner - 63 points in 69 games and 13 goals.
Nylander - 58 points in 66 games and 26 goals
Matthews - 59 points in 67 games and 26 goals

These guys have produced in the playoffs. These are all very good numbers.

The surrounding cast around them is not good enough, including goaltenders as well.
Tavares is not bad, but not great - 51 playoff games and 31 points.

 

[IslesNorway]

Signing someone like Ehlers, closing in on 30, to an eight year deal makes very little sense for the Isles or for him. Realistically, he will be pretty good for the first 3-4 years of that deal and then the contract will weight you down for the rest of the remaining years. This might work well for a team that feels close to winning the cup, like COL or CAR but maybe not quite being good enough right now. The Isles are years away, and if Ehlers wants to win, he would not choose to come to us.

I'd stay well clear of top free agents, but look for bargains on cheap and short deals instead.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Why would you even want Marner? What has he ever done to deserve that lust?

We already have plenty of grit, leadership, playoff warrior types. The things Toronto lacks. What we lack is top end skill.

 

[Throttle]

The moment they started adding more grit and losing the high flying offense shit is when they finally started to seem like more of a threat and actually moved past the first round. Having all four of those guys was a mistake because they take up too much of the cap. They were always struggling to fill their defense or goaltending, year after year.

I’ll go back to the Lou to Dubas transition. Lou never signs JT as the GM of Toronto. He uses the money for depth and defense. Freddy had warts as G, but Lou was going to stick with him.

And in the playoffs they annually lost to teams that were deeper and stronger than them. Now the cap goes up for them to spend in areas of need…too funny.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Signing someone like Ehlers, closing in on 30, to an eight year deal makes very little sense for the Isles or for him. Realistically, he will be pretty good for the first 3-4 years of that deal and then the contract will weight you down for the rest of the remaining years. This might work well for a team that feels close to winning the cup, like COL or CAR but maybe not quite being good enough right now. The Isles are years away, and if Ehlers wants to win, he would not choose to come to us.

I'd stay well clear of top free agents, but look for bargains on cheap and short deals instead.

100% correct

 

[LeapOnOver]

Marner - 63 points in 69 games and 13 goals.
Nylander - 58 points in 66 games and 26 goals
Matthews - 59 points in 67 games and 26 goals

These guys have produced in the playoffs. These are all very good numbers.

The surrounding cast around them is not good enough, including goaltenders as well.
Tavares is not bad, but not great - 51 playoff games and 31 points.

Saw a stat on Reddit that chains has more playoff points than JT dating back to 2018-2019 season.

Josh 'Chains' Bailey - 49 games, 39 points
John 'mom I wet my Maple Leaf pajamas' Tavares - 51 games, 31 points