Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build | Page 371 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

FWIW - with the cap increases an 8M contract will be the same portion of the cap as a 6.2M is now in 3 seasons. Pulock's salary is 6.15M.

So for the next three seasons we just have to eat an obvious overpayment in the hopes that for 2-3 seasons we get good value out of it before having an overpayment over the back half of the contract?

The majority of the contract if we give him $8 million will not be good.
 
There might be something to the idea that Roy is the cause of Dobson's regression, but it's still just a theory, and therefore still a gamble to sign him to a long, expensive contract even if they do make a coaching change.

And at that point, do we make excuses for Dobson just needing the right coach the way we make excuses for Barzal just needing the right line mates?
 
I hear you, but Dobson was a developing kid and then had a breakout season and we considered him untouchable. Then Roy was hired and he regressed. I'd hate to see him become a stud RHD with another team.
Good question to ask is what was it about Dobson that worked under Lambert and why isn't it working well with Roy.
 
There might be something to the idea that Roy is the cause of Dobson's regression, but it's still just a theory, and therefore still a gamble to sign him to a long, expensive contract even if they do make a coaching change.

And at that point, do we make excuses for Dobson just needing the right coach the way we make excuses for Barzal just needing the right line mates?


Great post. Since we have seen Dobson play very well under other coaching, I do think that Roy is at least part of the reason he's not playing well (mostly defensively) now.

I really like Roy the person, but I don't think he's a very good coach. The new GM should absolutely find a new coach (unless the new GM wants to totally rebuild and it doesn't matter).

As for Barzal...Yes - I would still like to see him play with a legit winger (or two). He's never had that. I also think Barzal is an ok 1st line center, but a stellar 2nd line center. When he faces an opposing team's top defensemen/defensive forwards he isn't as dynamic then if he could face their 2nd pairings. That bared out in his rookie year when Tavares was here and Barzal, as the #2 center, has 85 points that season (his best).

Barzal also had 80 points last year and that is also because he played part of it with Horvat (probably the most talented forward he's ever played with).
 
So for the next three seasons we just have to eat an obvious overpayment in the hopes that for 2-3 seasons we get good value out of it before having an overpayment over the back half of the contract?

The majority of the contract if we give him $8 million will not be good.
not sure if I'd call 1.8M an obnoxious overpayment, and in three years means 2 seasons (where the cap is also going up). So 2 out of 7 or 8 seasons where we're not likely to compete. That's not a majority.

Btw, good luck finding a Dobson at that price after the cap has already risen. I'm definitely not opposed to shopping him, but if he signs at 8M - 8.5M long term it will at the very least be a reasonable contract with upside.
 
not sure if I'd call 1.8M an obnoxious overpayment, and in three years means 2 seasons (where the cap is also going up). So 2 out of 7 or 8 seasons where we're not likely to compete. That's not a majority.

Btw, good luck finding a Dobson at that price after the cap has already risen. I'm definitely not opposed to shopping him, but if he signs at 8M - 8.5M long term it will at the very least be a reasonable contract with upside.

It has upside but it also has just as much downside. Romanov needs to be paid too and has looked much better come later in the season when the games get more physical. So once you give Dobson $8.5 what does Romanov get? $6-7?

Now all of a sudden you have your top four of Dobson/Romanov/Pulock/Pelech locked up longer term with all of them essentially making 6+ (Pelech is not there exactly but close). They've also got Mayfield locked up as well.
 
It has upside but it also has just as much downside. Romanov needs to be paid too and has looked much better come later in the season when the games get more physical. So once you give Dobson $8.5 what does Romanov get? $6-7?

Now all of a sudden you have your top four of Dobson/Romanov/Pulock/Pelech locked up longer term with all of them essentially making 6+ (Pelech is not there exactly but close). They've also got Mayfield locked up as well.
Romanov's contract number has nothing to do with Dobson's. He would get around 6.5M long term, regardless of if Dobson is on the team or not. The plan was probably always to sign both of them this year long term.

They're hopefully moving on from 2 of those 3 vets this season. The reason to move on from Dobson isn't because you've already signed Scott Mayfield to a shitty contract. You'd move him because he asks for way too much (10M+), or someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

Dobson can be infuriating, but he still has value to a hockey team and an incredible upside as we've seen. We have absolutely nothing in the pipeline on the right side, so it's not the greatest time to be shopping him from an organizational strength perspective. So signing him to a deal that amounts to a 3D's salary in a couple of seasons isn't the worst option in the world to me.
 
There might be something to the idea that Roy is the cause of Dobson's regression, but it's still just a theory, and therefore still a gamble to sign him to a long, expensive contract even if they do make a coaching change.

And at that point, do we make excuses for Dobson just needing the right coach the way we make excuses for Barzal just needing the right line mates?

I'd also like to add to this before paying Barzal good money we saw him have strong playoff production, ability to play first line minutes (much better than Dobson at least), and not only have one good season of production.

There are issues with Barzal but he showed a heck of a lot more before paying him.
 
He had no issues in our locker room, nor did he in his previous time with the Canes.

If you look past the sensationalized headlines from when he was a teenager and being grumpy in the KHL, can't blame for that, there isn't anything to suggest his character is a concern.

I find it odd when people create and follow, then get other to join in, on a narrative when they are not even in a situation they would know.

To ignore the people around him saying the opposite of something started on a bankrupt hack website like deadspin really doesn't make sense.

I firmly believe the majority of the people that dislike him do so merely for his politics and often won't say it. I am indifferent to what a player does at the voting poll. If they perform well, act proper, and fit the team, they could vote for Mickey Mouse every year and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
Spot on....I remember many years ago when the Dixie Chicks, now the Chicks, criticized GW Bush openly and suddenly all of Texas stopped playing their music. As a fan (okay judge me) I thought it was silly. I didn't listen to them for their political views, it was the music I liked. I thought the radio stations were being petty AF. Of course I'm not saying the same for bands that are based around politics like RATM or SOAD, but still, the point stands. I don't give a shit who they support or don't support. If I like what they are selling, I'll buy it.
 
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Good question to ask is what was it about Dobson that worked under Lambert and why isn't it working well with Roy.
It kind of stopped working under Lambert when he realized his one guy high blow the D zone early wasn’t creating more offense—only causing our goalies to face 40 shots a game. So in January of that year Lamert went back to a Trotzy D of everyone backcheck. That helped Dobson defensively. His offense didn’t struggle that year because our power play was a little better than it was this year. Dobson’s offensive numbers will be adequate on their own because he has good instincts on when to cruise up to the circle to look for a pass to shoot. On a team with a good power play that instinct will be even more productive
 
So for the next three seasons we just have to eat an obvious overpayment in the hopes that for 2-3 seasons we get good value out of it before having an overpayment over the back half of the contract?

The majority of the contract if we give him $8 million will not be good.
I love cap rationalizing of bad contracts. Such a fun game.
 
I don't really get why people are trying to pinch pennies over Dobson. You are supposed to pay your good players, especially when they're only 25. It doesn't really matter if they are "overpaid" by $1M or even $2M. Save money for what? To be able to sign the future versions of Duclair and Engvall?

Keep your star players unless it makes sense to trade them. If you can get the Hagens pick or a 1C for Dobson? Maybe it makes sense. Trade him because you are cheaping out on the contract? Absolutely does not make sense.
 
I don't really get why people are trying to pinch pennies over Dobson. You are supposed to pay your good players, especially when they're only 25. It doesn't really matter if they are "overpaid" by $1M or even $2M. Save money for what? To be able to sign the future versions of Duclair and Engvall?

Keep your star players unless it makes sense to trade them. If you can get the Hagens pick or a 1C for Dobson? Maybe it makes sense. Trade him because you are cheaping out on the contract? Absolutely does not make sense.
Probably because there’s evidence across the league on paying ‘good’ players great money. The isles have one at forward already too.
 
I don't really get why people are trying to pinch pennies over Dobson. You are supposed to pay your good players, especially when they're only 25. It doesn't really matter if they are "overpaid" by $1M or even $2M. Save money for what? To be able to sign the future versions of Duclair and Engvall?

Keep your star players unless it makes sense to trade them. If you can get the Hagens pick or a 1C for Dobson? Maybe it makes sense. Trade him because you are cheaping out on the contract? Absolutely does not make sense.

The problem is we do not know if he is a star.
 
I don't really get why people are trying to pinch pennies over Dobson. You are supposed to pay your good players, especially when they're only 25. It doesn't really matter if they are "overpaid" by $1M or even $2M. Save money for what? To be able to sign the future versions of Duclair and Engvall?

Keep your star players unless it makes sense to trade them. If you can get the Hagens pick or a 1C for Dobson? Maybe it makes sense. Trade him because you are cheaping out on the contract? Absolutely does not make sense.
The presumption all along was that you can trade Dobson if the return makes sense. That might be Hagens, or maybe it’s a team with a very good forward (someone on the level of Caufield or Robertson IMO) with needs at D. If we’re not excited about the potential return then I’d say figure out how to make it work with him. We’ll still have opportunities to make deals elsewhere.
 
The presumption all along was that you can trade Dobson if the return makes sense. That might be Hagens, or maybe it’s a team with a very good forward (someone on the level of Caufield or Robertson IMO) with needs at D. If we’re not excited about the potential return then I’d say figure out how to make it work with him. We’ll still have opportunities to make deals elsewhere.
Yeah, I mean if there's a trade out there at makes sense, sure. But he should only be traded because of that*, not because we're pinching pennies on a 25 year old player who is a good player (with the fancies backing it up).

*Or because he refuses to sign LT
 
Bouchard is a trainwreck defensively. However, he is on a team that can recover from it and he actually does run the power play.
He plays with two of the best offensive forwards in the world, as well and the Islanders offense pales in comparison to.
 
I think the biggest difference here is you don't want TDA because of his off the ice issues and I am willing to give it a shot for as long as he can handle it. I would also draft Schaefer 1 and not think too hard about it.

I don't think we have a defenseman who can currently play top pairing minutes in the playoffs. I think Lou felt Dobson and Romanov would become our new Pelech and Pulock which simply put has not happened.

I guess regarding the bolded you have to keep him. It is not an easy decision and I would also love to keep Dobson if he were getting paid more 2/3 money instead of top pairing. I think you can start to dream about the makings of a VERY good defense if they draft Schaefer one and can get Dobson at a reasonable deal.

I don't hate Dobson but I hate paying him top pairing money when he is not that yet.

I think the bold perfectly sums up the Dobson situation
 
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