Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[isles55]

Am I the only person that doesn't mind this as long as he's not the decision maker? Who better to guide a transition to a first time GM? If this is what gets us a Darche then I'm not opposed

From everything we hear about Lou, it sounds like he is a control freak. I don’t think he wants another guy having the final say, but if he does then it’s fine. I’m not sure this works out though.

Having an understudy to Lou is something that should have been done five years ago.

 

[YearlyLottery]

We've gotta stop this love affair with Tony DeAngelo. You think the Isles are getting closer to a Cup by resigning DeAngelo and trading Dobson?There's a reason why he was playing in the KHL this season. There are defensive needs all over the place in the league and yet not one single team wanted to pay him minimum wage. At best he's a short-term stop-gap d-man who can fill in when you have injures (as the Isles did).

And I'm not sure one single Islander is earning his contract right now. Still I'd rather have all of Barzal, Horvat, and Sorokin with their current contracts as opposed to Duclair, Pageau, Engvall, Mayfield who would all cost less than half what they would. Those first 3 players net out positive because they both help the team and have much higher upsides that can still be tapped into.

Same goes for Dobson...And that's why I would pay him before I took a subpar trade deal for him.

And I still don't get...If you think Dobson is so poor then how can you argue we'd get anything of value for him in a deal? Again someone is paying him a huge contract this summer...Which you think he's not worth. You can't believe that, but then also believe that we're going to get a haul worth trading him for.

And if we're not going to get a haul then you don't trade a player with his upside for anything less. If he bombs I can live with that, because if Dobson is traded I'd bet that a few years from now it would make the Toews trade look good.

Hold on a second here. I do not have a love affair with Tony DeAngelo. I have simply stated that offensively he was just as good as Dobson this past year. Tony DeAngelo was just as good offensively as the guy we want to be our top pairing defenseman.

Also, I agree that if we do not get a good trade you hold him. But if he is so valuable why would we not get a good trade?

I'm not saying Dobson is terrible (again you stating false statements from me), I just do not think he is worth top pairing money.

Let's fast forward to when this team gets back to the playoffs..... Is Noah Dobson going to be able to handle playing top defensive minutes against Toronto, Florida, Tampa, etc? What about offense in the playoffs? Have we seen him dominate once offensively in his 30+ playoff games?

But I'm the crazy one because I am hesitant to give him a huge contract? These are fair questions to ask when we give a contract of this magnitude.

We’re paying for the whole package. Did you see enough out of DeAngelo on the power play to want to keep him here? Or is it the price tag that makes TDA attractive?

My hope in a perfect world is we can trade Dobson for an attractive piece at forward (or a haul of high draft picks). If that does not happen we have to hold onto him.

TDA is attractive to me compared to Dobson because of two factors:

-if he ends up being a liability defensively/attitude wise we can quickly cut bait. While Dobson will not be an attitude problem he still has defensive concerns.

- I've seen enough out of TDA to be willing to give it another go for 1-2 seasons.

I'm not even saying TDA is some fantastic player. I am using him as an example to point out the price difference between him and Dobson for bringing a fairly similar level of play offensively.

 

[periferal]

Hold on a second here. I do not have a love affair with Tony DeAngelo. I have simply stated that offensively he was just as good as Dobson this past year. Tony DeAngelo was just as good offensively as the guy we want to be our top pairing defenseman.

That's the thing though...

DeAngelo was an emergency solution due to insane injuries to our D corps, and who should not be counted on for anything but that.

Truth is I don't want DeAngelo back because I personally don't want his character in our locker room...And certainly not around any young players who might be on this team in 5 months.

Also, I agree that if we do not get a good trade you hold him. But if he is so valuable why would we not get a good trade?

I'm not saying Dobson is terrible (again you stating false statements from me), I just do not think he is worth top pairing money.

Well I think he's going to ask for, and get, top pairing money. Assume that's true and also assume you don't get a good enough offer to trade him. I guess you're saying you'd live with keeping him long term?

Let's fast forward to when this team gets back to the playoffs..... Is Noah Dobson going to be able to handle playing top defensive minutes against Toronto, Florida, Tampa, etc? What about offense in the playoffs? Have we seen him dominate once offensively in his 30+ playoff games?

Maybe not, but consider that he's an offensive defenseman which is very rare....And then a righty shot at that which is even more rare. We don't need him to be Nicklas Lidström the same way we wouldn't count on Barzal to be on the penalty kill. Doesn't mean a player doesn't net out positive.

But I'm the crazy one because I am hesitant to give him a huge contract? These are fair questions to ask when we give a contract of this magnitude.

Well certainly a fair question, but as we discussed there's probably no ideal solution. One way or the other it's not going to be clean.

My hope in a perfect world is we can trade Dobson for an attractive piece at forward (or a haul of high draft picks). If that does not happen we have to hold onto him.

I mean if you don't trust Dobson to play top defensive minutes during the playoffs...Then what defensemen in the entire organization do you trust to do so. I would hope none and if you're trading the defenseman with the highest upside in all of Islanderland it sure sounds like you'd be committing to a total rebuild.

Many here (not saying you) don't like to draft defensemen with a top pick because "they take so long to develop." At minimum Dobson is a top-4 NHL defenseman now and will be for the next decade. You trade him and you have exactly ZERO legit defensive prospects coming up. Then you almost have to draft Schaefer in 6 weeks and do you want to throw him to the wolves on a bad team with defensive stalwarts Pelech, Puluck, Mayfield, and no Dobson.

TDA is attractive to me compared to Dobson because of two factors:

-if he ends up being a liability defensively/attitude wise we can quickly cut bait. While Dobson will not be an attitude problem he still has defensive concerns.

- I've seen enough out of TDA to be willing to give it another go for 1-2 seasons.

I'm not even saying TDA is some fantastic player. I am using him as an example to point out the price difference between him and Dobson for bringing a fairly similar level of play offensively.

Again....DeAngelo was because there were no other option. He served his purpose, but now he shouldn't be around the locker room - Especially if Schaefer is on the team next year.

 

[boredmale]

Again....DeAngelo was because there were no other option. He served his purpose, but now he shouldn't be around the locker room - Especially if Schaefer is on the team next year.

DeAngelo makes sense if we trade Dobson for whatever reason, otherwise move on.

As for Schaeffer, I can't see him playing in the NHL next year. Maybe a 9 game stint but that is it even then it might just be best sending him back given his age and lack of play last year

 

[NC 1972]

Why shouldn’t he be? We’re debating making him the highest paid defenseman on the team and we have a very notable issue with holding leads in the last minute. If you’re paying someone to be a franchise #1 you should have at least some confidence that he can step out there in all situations.

It has been discussed at great length here what compensation is for players with similar abilities, and it appears he will be payed accordingly to his peers. If you have D-men who are more physical it would be negligence for the coach not to have them out there in the closing minute of a one goal game. When I think of defending in a crucial moment I want to manhandle the opposing players and crush their spirit, no one said he’s the complete package yet , I don’t ever see him being a physical presence. But he has skills he wasn’t drafted in the top five. I believe it was 13th . He was always viewed as a transporter and distributer. I feel as mentioned by many this was an off year for him and others, the team was plagued by injuries and honestly my feelings on Roy are he’s lacking as a coach. His rah rah style doesn’t fly. Dobson is young and will continue to evolve those calling for him to be traded for an unproven commodity are looking for a quick fix that doesn’t exist drafting and developing players takes time. Dobson will only get better.

 

[YearlyLottery]

That's the thing though...

DeAngelo was an emergency solution due to insane injuries to our D corps, and who should not be counted on for anything but that.

Truth is I don't want DeAngelo back because I personally don't want his character in our locker room...And certainly not around any young players who might be on this team in 5 months.




Well I think he's going to ask for, and get, top pairing money. Assume that's true and also assume you don't get a good enough offer to trade him. I guess you're saying you'd live with keeping him long term?




Maybe not, but consider that he's an offensive defenseman which is very rare....And then a righty shot at that which is even more rare. We don't need him to be Nicklas Lidström the same way we wouldn't count on Barzal to be on the penalty kill. Doesn't mean a player doesn't net out positive.




Well certainly a fair question, but as we discussed there's probably no ideal solution. One way or the other it's not going to be clean.




I mean if you don't trust Dobson to play top defensive minutes during the playoffs...Then what defensemen in the entire organization do you trust to do so. I would hope none and if you're trading the defenseman with the highest upside in all of Islanderland it sure sounds like you'd be committing to a total rebuild.

Many here (not saying you) don't like to draft defensemen with a top pick because "they take so long to develop." At minimum Dobson is a top-4 NHL defenseman now and will be for the next decade. You trade him and you have exactly ZERO legit defensive prospects coming up. Then you almost have to draft Schaefer in 6 weeks and do you want to throw him to the wolves on a bad team with defensive stalwarts Pelech, Puluck, Mayfield, and no Dobson.




Again....DeAngelo was because there were no other option. He served his purpose, but now he shouldn't be around the locker room - Especially if Schaefer is on the team next year.

I think the biggest difference here is you don't want TDA because of his off the ice issues and I am willing to give it a shot for as long as he can handle it. I would also draft Schaefer 1 and not think too hard about it.

I don't think we have a defenseman who can currently play top pairing minutes in the playoffs. I think Lou felt Dobson and Romanov would become our new Pelech and Pulock which simply put has not happened.

I guess regarding the bolded you have to keep him. It is not an easy decision and I would also love to keep Dobson if he were getting paid more 2/3 money instead of top pairing. I think you can start to dream about the makings of a VERY good defense if they draft Schaefer one and can get Dobson at a reasonable deal.

I don't hate Dobson but I hate paying him top pairing money when he is not that yet.

 

[NC 1972]

Why shouldn’t he be? We’re debating making him the highest paid defenseman on the team and we have a very notable issue with holding leads in the last minute. If you’re paying someone to be a franchise #1 you should have at least some confidence that he can step out there in all situations.

When BT wanted to close out a game the Islanders were winning in the closing minute he put Martin, Cizikas and Cluterbuck out there not our most expensive forwards or our best forwards he put out those that were best in that situation.

 

[seabass45]

When BT wanted to close out a game the Islanders were winning in the closing minute he put Martin, Cizikas and Cluterbuck out there not our most expensive forwards or our best forwards he put out those that were best in that situation.

BT isn’t here anymore nor are two of the players (all forwards btw). Meanwhile there are some suggestions here that if we need a RD to pot 50 points, we can just re-sign Tony DeAngelo. Point being: if you’re a defenseman making that much money you should be trusted in all facets of the game.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Ah...How simple you make it out to be. DeAngelo just used the "N" word as if that's the only reason he had to play in Russia. He's obviously not blackballed as desperate Lou gave him a deal.

Look at the graphic below. There's more but it cut off due to size...


View attachment 1032753


I think the fact that he has a lot of talent and still no one other than Lou would even give him a league minimum deal speaks to how poor his character is and how most believe despite is talent he nets out as a negative.

Why do you keep saying the bold? Where's your source for that? Did he say, "Islanders are the only ones that wanted to sign me?". I missed the part where his agent contacted every team and every team said no except the Islanders. Provide the link please, I must have missed it.

 

[YearlyLottery]

BT isn’t here anymore nor are two of the players (all forwards btw). Meanwhile there are some suggestions here that if we need a RD to pot 50 points, we can just re-sign Tony DeAngelo. Point being: if you’re a defenseman making that much money you should be trusted in all facets of the game.

Bingo. This is not a pro TDA even. This is simply a reaction to what Noah Dobson has shown us. Some want to pay him off the one elite offensive season he has shown and some would rather trade him because they do not see enough elite seasons left (and that is completely ignoring the defensive side of the game).

 

[periferal]

DeAngelo makes sense if we trade Dobson for whatever reason, otherwise move on.

If we trade Dobson then we are totally rebuilding and no other defensemen should be signed so we can go after McKenna a year from now.

 

[LeapOnOver]

If we trade Dobson then we are totally rebuilding and no other defensemen should be signed so we can go after McKenna a year from now.

Well, they will probably have to sign a league minimum guy, but yeah, don't spend on a 50pt defenseman. No reason. We are talking about the Perunovichs, Reillys, Boquists of the world. I mean, I'm okay with inviting George to the dumpster fire, but better to let him get another season of big minutes in the A.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

That's the thing though...

DeAngelo was an emergency solution due to insane injuries to our D corps, and who should not be counted on for anything but that.

Truth is I don't want DeAngelo back because I personally don't want his character in our locker room...And certainly not around any young players who might be on this team in 5 months.




Well I think he's going to ask for, and get, top pairing money. Assume that's true and also assume you don't get a good enough offer to trade him. I guess you're saying you'd live with keeping him long term?




Maybe not, but consider that he's an offensive defenseman which is very rare....And then a righty shot at that which is even more rare. We don't need him to be Nicklas Lidström the same way we wouldn't count on Barzal to be on the penalty kill. Doesn't mean a player doesn't net out positive.




Well certainly a fair question, but as we discussed there's probably no ideal solution. One way or the other it's not going to be clean.




I mean if you don't trust Dobson to play top defensive minutes during the playoffs...Then what defensemen in the entire organization do you trust to do so. I would hope none and if you're trading the defenseman with the highest upside in all of Islanderland it sure sounds like you'd be committing to a total rebuild.

Many here (not saying you) don't like to draft defensemen with a top pick because "they take so long to develop." At minimum Dobson is a top-4 NHL defenseman now and will be for the next decade. You trade him and you have exactly ZERO legit defensive prospects coming up. Then you almost have to draft Schaefer in 6 weeks and do you want to throw him to the wolves on a bad team with defensive stalwarts Pelech, Puluck, Mayfield, and no Dobson.




Again....DeAngelo was because there were no other option. He served his purpose, but now he shouldn't be around the locker room - Especially if Schaefer is on the team next year.

He had no issues in our locker room, nor did he in his previous time with the Canes.

If you look past the sensationalized headlines from when he was a teenager and being grumpy in the KHL, can't blame for that, there isn't anything to suggest his character is a concern.

I find it odd when people create and follow, then get other to join in, on a narrative when they are not even in a situation they would know.

To ignore the people around him saying the opposite of something started on a bankrupt hack website like deadspin really doesn't make sense.

I firmly believe the majority of the people that dislike him do so merely for his politics and often won't say it. I am indifferent to what a player does at the voting poll. If they perform well, act proper, and fit the team, they could vote for Mickey Mouse every year and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[YearlyLottery]

If we trade Dobson then we are totally rebuilding and no other defensemen should be signed so we can go after McKenna a year from now.

If trading Noah Dobson ends up igniting a rebuild I would rather do that compared to keeping Noah Dobson as a top pairing defenseman when he has never shown he can handle it aside from one season solely on the offensive side of the puck.

 

[doublechili]

If trading Noah Dobson ends up igniting a rebuild I would rather do that compared to keeping Noah Dobson as a top pairing defenseman when he has never shown he can handle it aside from one season solely on the offensive side of the puck.

I hear you, but Dobson was a developing kid and then had a breakout season and we considered him untouchable. Then Roy was hired and he regressed. I'd hate to see him become a stud RHD with another team.

 

[The Real JT]

I hear you, but Dobson was a developing kid and then had a breakout season and we considered him untouchable. Then Roy was hired and he regressed. I'd hate to see him become a stud RHD with another team.

I think we all share that concern but that’s exactly why you get high value for your young prospects.

There’s risk on both sides. For my money, he’s too soft, almost pathologically so, and that will never change. By no means would I trade him just for the sake of doing so but for the right price? Absolutely.

 

[Schaefer48]

Dobson has been up and down during his entry into the NHL, which is probably normal for most young Defensemen. I’m more of the belief that if our forward group were faster and got to pucks quicker and maintained possession longer, it would certainly help the defence. It’s a lot easier to defend when you are in the offensive zone which if we’ve watched the islanders of recent years, that hasn’t been their strong suit. Any move of Dobson would need to bring back young NHL ready player or players and would only be made to correct a cap issue. It would also have to include a terrible contract along with it, otherwise there is no reason to move him.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I hear you, but Dobson was a developing kid and then had a breakout season and we considered him untouchable. Then Roy was hired and he regressed. I'd hate to see him become a stud RHD with another team.

I have a feeling Dobson will get a lower deal than many expect. I just do not see a world in where a new GM comes in and makes multiple excuses up as to why he will be a top pairing guy.

Yes it would hurt to lose him if he becomes a bonafide top pairing guy. HOWEVER, if they get fair value for him it will not hurt because an impact player will be coming back the other way with multiple assets.

The worst possible outcome is keeping Dobson, giving him a boatload of money, and figuring out he is too soft to play in the playoffs and his contract becomes immovable.

 

[doublechili]

I have a feeling Dobson will get a lower deal than many expect. I just do not see a world in where a new GM comes in and makes multiple excuses up as to why he will be a top pairing guy.

Yes it would hurt to lose him if he becomes a bonafide top pairing guy. HOWEVER, if they get fair value for him it will not hurt because an impact player will be coming back the other way with multiple assets.

The worst possible outcome is keeping Dobson, giving him a boatload of money, and figuring out he is too soft to play in the playoffs and his contract becomes immovable.

Yeah, the key would be getting good value. If the Isles draft Schaefer that would hopefully fill the elite #1 D slot. If they could turn Dobson into a #1 C, mission accomplished.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Yeah, the key would be getting good value. If the Isles draft Schaefer that would hopefully fill the elite #1 D slot. If they could turn Dobson into a #1 C, mission accomplished.

I think Lou felt after Dobson's current deal was up he would establish himself as a a future star defenseman. There is always the choice of waiting this year out as well since he is a RFA. But the Islanders also have to make a crucial decision to either

A.) lock him all long term due to UFA status
B.) trade him however that would likely have to happen this offseason but since he is so close to UFA he can push where he goes.

This really is not the best situation but I would rather they figure it out this offseason. Drafting Schaefer would put less pressure on Dobson, but should we worry about putting pressure on a player many want to make our #1 defenseman for the next 8 years?

 

[periferal]

He had no issues in our locker room, nor did he in his previous time with the Canes.

If you look past the sensationalized headlines from when he was a teenager and being grumpy in the KHL, can't blame for that, there isn't anything to suggest his character is a concern.

I find it odd when people create and follow, then get other to join in, on a narrative when they are not even in a situation they would know.

To ignore the people around him saying the opposite of something started on a bankrupt hack website like deadspin really doesn't make sense.

I firmly believe the majority of the people that dislike him do so merely for his politics and often won't say it. I am indifferent to what a player does at the voting poll. If they perform well, act proper, and fit the team, they could vote for Mickey Mouse every year and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

This is an amazing post. Are you in a "situation where you would know" if DeAngelo was had any issues in our locker room?

No.

But here's what we do know...Despite DeAngelo being a very talented player, those same Carolina Hurricanes (where is seemingly had "no issues") didn't even think he was worth a minimum wage contract to stay there (and they could absolutely use him right now). Neither did the rest of the NHL.

If you want to blame it on politics you can, but if you think that he's the only trump supporter in the NHL you are sadly sadly mistaken. There are things way beyond politics that are probably at play here.

Sure DeAngelo has been in the news for some very negative/questionable acts, but just because you aren't making headlines now doesn't mean you aren't a jerk that coaches/GM don't want in their locker room.

 

[MJF]

If trading Noah Dobson ends up igniting a rebuild I would rather do that compared to keeping Noah Dobson as a top pairing defenseman when he has never shown he can handle it aside from one season solely on the offensive side of the puck.

Dobson was on a positive trajectory until Patrick Roy was hired as coach. From then on Dobson's defensive reads seemed to have him caught in the middle too often. Then with Tommy Albelin running the defense and PK this season the entire team took a step backwards.

Dobson's never going to be Drew Doughty, but I can see him becoming a John Carlson type of defenseman with better coaching.

So no, I'm not interested in paying Dobson 8 years at $8M per. I would like to see him come in to sign a Pulock contract.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Dobson was on a positive trajectory until Patrick Roy was hired as coach. From then on Dobson's defensive reads seemed to have him caught in the middle too often. Then with Tommy Albelin running the defense and PK this season the entire team took a step backwards.

Dobson's never going to be Drew Doughty, but I can see him becoming a John Carlson type of defenseman with better coaching.

So no, I'm not interested in paying Dobson 8 years at $8M per. I would like to see him come in to sign a Pulock contract.

So we pretty much agree 100% on what he is. For a Pulock type contract I say you lock him up and be VERY happy about it.

 

[MJF]

So we pretty much agree 100% on what he is. For a Pulock type contract I say you lock him up and be VERY happy about it.

We agree that his production warrants that type of contract. Where we may disagree is that Pulock was paid for offense that he never delivered. Dobson has already delivered goals more times than Pulock in half the career and I don't think we've seen the best of Dobson yet.

 

[impaaaaaact]

So we pretty much agree 100% on what he is. For a Pulock type contract I say you lock him up and be VERY happy about it.

FWIW - with the cap increases an 8M contract will be the same portion of the cap as a 6.2M is now in 3 seasons. Pulock's salary is 6.15M.