Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[saintunspecified]

Let's assume the rumors are true and Dobson wants 8 years and $8 million per year. That is what I expect a top pairing defenseman to get. Should we not expect top pairing play out of him?

tbh 8M as an AAV in the new salary cap context is reasonable. that's what Chabot gets, but NYI would be buying several more UFA years than Chabot's contract did. Neal Pionk just signed for 7M AAV. He's also pretty good in transition, and not really a top PP guy. But he hasn't played Dobson's minutes, nor put up nearly so many points.

Dobson for 8M would be an extremely valuable asset. Obviously details like NMC/NTC or bonus structure matter, but if those are fine I'd be fine with that deal right now. Lots of teams would take him for that.

If that's what he wants, okay. Even with all my criticisms, 8MAAV is just fine. If NYI can do that, they could put together their team and can also add a couple of guys at up to 4M total for the bottom 6 (short term).

NYI can consider moving Pelech or Pulock over the summer. (Pelechs modified NTC makes moving him more likely, but imo he's not going to be moved without retention and if so, the return has to make it a better deal than buying him out after one more year.)

I think, btw, that the issues with the roster in terms of dead salary are massively overblown. Palmieri is gone. The right decision on Nelson was made. Lee is a potential asset on an expiring deal. (He can do what Corey Perry does + more). Pageau can babysit Barzal or Ritchie for a year. NYI need a bottom 6 center, and Cizikas can shift to the wing where he might be more effective to round out his career.

A true star defender, in Dobson's context, would be worth idk, a LOT. Like 10M AAV probably more.

 

[JRD76]

Let's assume the rumors are true and Dobson wants 8 years and $8 million per year. That is what I expect a top pairing defenseman to get. Should we not expect top pairing play out of him?

Also, your last paragraph you may be mixing me up with someone else. I would only trade Dobson for the third pick if there was a fairly big plus coming back the other way.

Dobson is a good NHL player, but in the cap era we have to make a decision if he is worth a massive contract of elite money with one elite season of play.

to compare the latest contracts that Dmen got..
You got 30yr old Pionk who got a 6yr contract at 7mil a year who has average about 35pts a year in his career.
Is better defensively and hits more. Think more of a Pulock type. 39pts +21 on the best team last season.

You got 27yr old Chychrun who got a 8yr contract at 9mil a year who put up a career year 47pts +17 on the second best team this past season and averages the same amount of hits as Dobson( last year on a bad Ottawa team--41pts -30)

Dobson put up 39 pts -16 on a bad islander team. He had an off year as did the whole team.
You don't think he's worth 8mil in this market?
If his contract was up last year without this recent bad season, is he worth 8mil? with 49, 52 and 70 point seasons?

 

[Throttle]

Points, points, points. I guess everyone is willing to wash away his past 3 seasons of point sucking defense gaffes that led to wins to losses.

This season he was probably close to costing the Isles 8 points to his own direct malfeasance. That’s a playoff spot right there.

Has he stepped up in the playoffs? Nope. Big games? Nope.

 

[periferal]

Would you pay $8 million dollars for a second pairing defenseman who struggles defensively? Because that is what you are risking. The second he gets off to a 50 point start instead of a 70 point one he becomes an anchor. I am not willing to sign up for giving a player top pairing money who has only done it on the offensive side one season.

I don't think anyone here can tell me with complete seriousness that Tony DeAngelo looked worse than Noah Dobson.

Again....You're not "carrying the one" here. Totally fine if you don't like Dobson and want to trade him, but the part you're missing is this....

One NHL team has to give him a very large contract this summer.

So if you don't want to pay Dobson, stands to reason that several other teams won't want to pay him either. And if they don't want to pay him...Then they won't want to trade for him.

You can't bash a player, but think that other professional scouts/GM's won't see the same warts on Dobson you're saying and not want to trade for him (much less resign him).

The way you describe Dobson sounds like he would only return like two 2nd round picks and at that price it would be embarrassing to trade him. Either he returns at least what Nelson did or you keep him and pay him.

The Islanders are so devoid to top talent we need to be VERY careful about trading away a RIGHT shot defenseman who could be a TOP-PAIRING d-man. And I'd much rather bet on that happening (since we've seen it before), than dump him because we're afriad of paying him. The Islanders have literally given out some of the worst contracts in NHL history over the years and of all of them I'd make the argument that Dobson is a smarter bet to pay than most.

 

[periferal]

Dobson was a plus defender before Roy came along. New coaching staff will have him back to that.

This should seriously not be overlooked.

 

[periferal]

Dobson is a big softie Unfortunately. My two cents. Lgi.

Brock Nelson was the mascot for Charmin and look how he turned out. Not every player has to be Scott Stevens to have value.

 

[MJF]

Would you pay $8 million dollars for a second pairing defenseman who struggles defensively? Because that is what you are risking. The second he gets off to a 50 point start instead of a 70 point one he becomes an anchor. I am not willing to sign up for giving a player top pairing money who has only done it on the offensive side one season.

I don't think anyone here can tell me with complete seriousness that Tony DeAngelo looked worse than Noah Dobson.

DeAngelo absolutely looked worse in his own end than Dobson.

 

[seabass45]

How confident do you feel with Dobson out there in the last minute, holding a one goal lead?

 

[YearlyLottery]

tbh 8M as an AAV in the new salary cap context is reasonable. that's what Chabot gets, but NYI would be buying several more UFA years than Chabot's contract did. Neal Pionk just signed for 7M AAV. He's also pretty good in transition, and not really a top PP guy. But he hasn't played Dobson's minutes, nor put up nearly so many points.

Dobson for 8M would be an extremely valuable asset. Obviously details like NMC/NTC or bonus structure matter, but if those are fine I'd be fine with that deal right now. Lots of teams would take him for that.

If that's what he wants, okay. Even with all my criticisms, 8MAAV is just fine. If NYI can do that, they could put together their team and can also add a couple of guys at up to 4M total for the bottom 6 (short term).

NYI can consider moving Pelech or Pulock over the summer. (Pelechs modified NTC makes moving him more likely, but imo he's not going to be moved without retention and if so, the return has to make it a better deal than buying him out after one more year.)

I think, btw, that the issues with the roster in terms of dead salary are massively overblown. Palmieri is gone. The right decision on Nelson was made. Lee is a potential asset on an expiring deal. (He can do what Corey Perry does + more). Pageau can babysit Barzal or Ritchie for a year. NYI need a bottom 6 center, and Cizikas can shift to the wing where he might be more effective to round out his career.

A true star defender, in Dobson's context, would be worth idk, a LOT. Like 10M AAV probably more.

to compare the latest contracts that Dmen got..
You got 30yr old Pionk who got a 6yr contract at 7mil a year who has average about 35pts a year in his career.
Is better defensively and hits more. Think more of a Pulock type. 39pts +21 on the best team last season.

You got 27yr old Chychrun who got a 8yr contract at 9mil a year who put up a career year 47pts +17 on the second best team this past season and averages the same amount of hits as Dobson( last year on a bad Ottawa team--41pts -30)

Dobson put up 39 pts -16 on a bad islander team. He had an off year as did the whole team.
You don't think he's worth 8mil in this market?
If his contract was up last year without this recent bad season, is he worth 8mil? with 49, 52 and 70 point seasons?

Again....You're not "carrying the one" here. Totally fine if you don't like Dobson and want to trade him, but the part you're missing is this....

One NHL team has to give him a very large contract this summer.

So if you don't want to pay Dobson, stands to reason that several other teams won't want to pay him either. And if they don't want to pay him...Then they won't want to trade for him.

You can't bash a player, but think that other professional scouts/GM's won't see the same warts on Dobson you're saying and not want to trade for him (much less resign him).

The way you describe Dobson sounds like he would only return like two 2nd round picks and at that price it would be embarrassing to trade him. Either he returns at least what Nelson did or you keep him and pay him.

The Islanders are so devoid to top talent we need to be VERY careful about trading away a RIGHT shot defenseman who could be a TOP-PAIRING d-man. And I'd much rather bet on that happening (since we've seen it before), than dump him because we're afriad of paying him. The Islanders have literally given out some of the worst contracts in NHL history over the years and of all of them I'd make the argument that Dobson is a smarter bet to pay than most.

Again all of the above posts are fine. But you are all willing to pay top pairing money for potential and a hope that Roy's system is the problem. We paid Bo Horvat market value and I cannot say that contract is going to turn out well.

I mean we are at the point where we are showing the amount of hits Dobson has to prove he is worth his contract?

The BEST defense and one I do not mind is the salary cap in increasing and $8 million may not be looked at the same in 4-5 years.

You are still paying top pairing money for a defenseman you can only trust in offensive situations and was elite offensively for one season.

DeAngelo absolutely looked worse in his own end than Dobson.

Well are we even paying all this money for the defensive end? For a 1-2 year deal and half the AAV you can have DeAngelo.

 

[mm11]

Brock Nelson was the mascot for Charmin and look how he turned out. Not every player has to be Scott Stevens to have value.

True, would not pay Brock Nelson 9 million a year or Mr 6'4 softie on Defense. Was a fan of Dobson but without that Alpha mentality he just may carve out a very solid top D 4 career. Albeit, not too shabby for a 12 overall but kinda disappointing. Hey, its not my money though

 

[periferal]

Again all of the above posts are fine. But you are all willing to pay top pairing money for potential and a hope that Roy's system is the problem. We paid Bo Horvat market value and I cannot say that contract is going to turn out well.

I mean we are at the point where we are showing the amount of hits Dobson has to prove he is worth his contract?

The BEST defense and one I do not mind is the salary cap in increasing and $8 million may not be looked at the same in 4-5 years.

You are still paying top pairing money for a defenseman you can only trust in offensive situations and was elite offensively for one season.


Well are we even paying all this money for the defensive end? For a 1-2 year deal and half the AAV you can have DeAngelo.

We've gotta stop this love affair with Tony DeAngelo. You think the Isles are getting closer to a Cup by resigning DeAngelo and trading Dobson?There's a reason why he was playing in the KHL this season. There are defensive needs all over the place in the league and yet not one single team wanted to pay him minimum wage. At best he's a short-term stop-gap d-man who can fill in when you have injures (as the Isles did).

And I'm not sure one single Islander is earning his contract right now. Still I'd rather have all of Barzal, Horvat, and Sorokin with their current contracts as opposed to Duclair, Pageau, Engvall, Mayfield who would all cost less than half what they would. Those first 3 players net out positive because they both help the team and have much higher upsides that can still be tapped into.

Same goes for Dobson...And that's why I would pay him before I took a subpar trade deal for him.

And I still don't get...If you think Dobson is so poor then how can you argue we'd get anything of value for him in a deal? Again someone is paying him a huge contract this summer...Which you think he's not worth. You can't believe that, but then also believe that we're going to get a haul worth trading him for.

And if we're not going to get a haul then you don't trade a player with his upside for anything less. If he bombs I can live with that, because if Dobson is traded I'd bet that a few years from now it would make the Toews trade look good.

 

[saintunspecified]

Again all of the above posts are fine. But you are all willing to pay top pairing money for potential and a hope that Roy's system is the problem. We paid Bo Horvat market value and I cannot say that contract is going to turn out well.

Look at this list, and filter to RD.

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Who counts as top pairing RD? How many are there?

If you can come up with 15 players who you'd want over Dobson from this list, you're doing better than me.

If NYI can make sending Pulock out and sign D'Angelo look good while reducing long term salary commitment, I'm all for it.

 

[Konk]

We've gotta stop this love affair with Tony DeAngelo. You think the Isles are getting closer to a Cup by resigning DeAngelo and trading Dobson?There's a reason why he was playing in the KHL this season. There are defensive needs all over the place in the league and yet not one single team wanted to pay him minimum wage. At best he's a short-term stop-gap d-man who can fill in when you have injures (as the Isles did).

Yeah, because he likes the 'N' word, not because he's a bad player...

 

[MJF]

How confident do you feel with Dobson out there in the last minute, holding a one goal lead?

Turning that question around, who did you feel confident with out there? Mayfield? Pelech?

 

[MJF]

Well are we even paying all this money for the defensive end? For a 1-2 year deal and half the AAV you can have DeAngelo.

We’re paying for the whole package. Did you see enough out of DeAngelo on the power play to want to keep him here? Or is it the price tag that makes TDA attractive?

 

[seabass45]

Turning that question around, who did you feel confident with out there? Mayfield? Pelech?

Not exactly confident with either of them but they're not being paid like an all situations #1.

 

[periferal]

Yeah, because he likes the 'N' word, not because he's a bad player...

Ah...How simple you make it out to be. DeAngelo just used the "N" word as if that's the only reason he had to play in Russia. He's obviously not blackballed as desperate Lou gave him a deal.

Look at the graphic below. There's more but it cut off due to size...

I think the fact that he has a lot of talent and still no one other than Lou would even give him a league minimum deal speaks to how poor his character is and how most believe despite is talent he nets out as a negative.

 

[Throttle]

How confident do you feel with Dobson out there in the last minute, holding a one goal lead?

Zonk, goal … against.

 

[ekill08x]

Even though he is absolutely infuriating, I still think we have to keep Dobson for the long-term. 8mil per is very steep and 70 points was clearly an outlier but he is still a possession tilting player. Don't want to give up on him yet.

 

[Konk]

Ah...How simple you make it out to be. DeAngelo just used the "N" word as if that's the only reason he had to play in Russia. He's obviously not blackballed as desperate Lou gave him a deal.

Look at the graphic below. There's more but it cut off due to size...


View attachment 1032753


I think the fact that he has a lot of talent and still no one other than Lou would even give him a league minimum deal speaks to how poor his character is and how most believe despite is talent he nets out as a negative.

Oh I'm well aware of his history and I clearly simplified it, but your post was vague and lacked clarity regarding his character issues as the overwhelming reason he was in the KHL.

 

[periferal]

Oh I'm well aware of his history and I clearly simplified it, but your post was vague and lacked clarity regarding his character issues as the overwhelming reason he was in the KHL.

The (long) graphic I put above was the reason I was saying Tony D was in the KHL. Sounds like we're both aware of his history, and just not sure if you know it all how we could think he would be a short/long term replacement for Dobson - Much less want to have someone like that in your locker room (and the young players we will ultimately bring in).

 

[NC 1972]

How confident do you feel with Dobson out there in the last minute, holding a one goal lead?

He doesn’t have to be.

 

[Konk]

The (long) graphic I put above was the reason I was saying Tony D was in the KHL. Sounds like we're both aware of his history, and just not sure if you know it all how we could think he would be a short/long term replacement for Dobson - Much less want to have someone like that in your locker room (and the young players we will ultimately bring in).

I do agree DeAngelo is not a long term solution. That said, with a new GM, he likely won't be brought back anyway.

The Dobson situation is a precarious one given his shortcomings and contract status. With that said, I don't think his book has been written yet and he should be given another year before making a decision on his future.

 

[seabass45]

He doesn’t have to be.

Why shouldn’t he be? We’re debating making him the highest paid defenseman on the team and we have a very notable issue with holding leads in the last minute. If you’re paying someone to be a franchise #1 you should have at least some confidence that he can step out there in all situations.

 

[Chockey22]

I really wish the NHL kept stats on 'puck retrievals on dump ins' and 'winning board battles', because they are so important and because I think the Islanders are below average at both of them, collectively. Dobson in particular, to me, seems poor at both, but I don't actually know if that is true and is just based on a couple of egregious examples. I remember a game last year where he seemed afraid to get hit on a dump in and lost the puck retrieval leading to a goal (there were probably several of these games). However, the next game I watched specifically for Dobson's puck retrieval on dump ins to his side and he almost always came away with the puck and led a decent breakout. He was way more effective than any other Isles D (that game anyway).
In short, I don't really know what we have in Dobson; but I think he's worth an 8x8.5 contract and man would I hate to see him flourish elsewhere like Toews has after getting a piss poor return.