miscs75
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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build
- Thread starter PK Cronin
- Start date
Glorydays22
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- Nov 21, 2011
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Even though there is talks about this roster changing. This isn't PS5 NHL, we won't be able to move- Mayfield, Pelech, Envgall, Casey, Lee, Pageau, and Duclair in one off-season. So we have to tamper our expectations. My guess Casey will still be around. I don't like MacLean at all....for next year (short term) - if you signed Beau to a 1x1M - Beau-Casey-Gatcomb. But I really wouldn't mind some muscle/physical guy on the 4th line. We have become one of the softest teams in the league. Praying Ritchie shows he's ready in preseason and have him on the 3rd line
miscs75
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It was just an idea I had. Understandable that all those players wouldn’t move this offseason. If you have to keep 1 out of them all, Lee is probably the main one I’d keep with Pageau #2. Hopefully with Lou saying there will be changes, it’s more than letting UFAs walk and signing 1 guy in the offseason but I doubt it’ll be more than that. Possibly a new assistant that isn’t a Lou hire next year too.
SI
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- Feb 16, 2013
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Capitals had a PS5 NHL last offseason.
Let's see how aggressive mgmt will be.
I agree on Casey - he stays.
Difference is Johhny Had a Mean Streak and a more accurate Shot with a slightly quicker wind up.
Pulock does not seem to be that "Edged" and his wind up is laughable.
One more thing, Johnny could one time, Pulock, NO Freaking Way!
IslesNorway
Registered User
Because hockey is incestuous and people are just picked for jobs from a pool of ever revolving guys who all do and owe each other favours.
Now, just wait until Dan Bylsma and Peter Chiarelli will be our new tandem to to take this team to the next level...
Currently playing on the first/second line with the Eastern conference leading Capitals - pretty sure he could play up the lineup with this pathetic Isles squad. Not saying I’d want him back ,but he would be better than a lot of the forwards the Isles played down the stretch
Sounds about on par with what Lou would be thinking.
Equates to a defeatist attitude for all those who realize the benefits of conducting wise asset management.
Which is the modern way of GMing.
In light of the team's very predictable post-TDeadline finish, I'd have had much more interest/favor in knowing we had an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder and having gotten to see a Jefferies or Beckman or Maggio up here for the stretch run instead of the 3-2-5 same 'ol, same 'ol performance we got from a guy who we all knew wasn't going to be doing much here without a Barzal or Nelson anyhow.
And I think this viewpoint of mine is much more widespread among the fanbase than any favoritism for the path that was taken.
***
We all have no doubt that Lou is a big Palmieri fan. He wants him here. Heck, Palms is a guy from the area and it would seem logical that he'd want to stay here, maybe on a team-friendly deal.
If a fair and logical deal gets decided on, then you go with it. It just feels like as long as Lou remains GM, there's no guarantee (or indication) he'd be able to find an adequate replacement for Palms on the free market anyhow. And well, with the kind of contracts he's given out, Lou is not in a position of strength when it comes to making one of those "hockey trades" he's fondly mentioned here or there.
Not unless he's moving the guys we'd actually like to keep.
Now, IF Palms does decide to walk, then the path chosen by Lou will equate to a form of business malpractice in the eyes of many in this fanbase.
And it's exactly the kind of business malpractice this team's informed fanbase is absolutely sick and tired of seeing.
Merits here or there or not, it's the road we don't be going down anymore.
I know there will be those who would continue to think that it's ok and no big deal, but it feels like the section of the fanbase that would think that way is simply suffering from some form of Lamoriello Stockholm Syndrome.
PS) I'd once again like to add that if all Lou's in-house work consists of is taking care of the RFAs (which is going to be a big chunk of work), the only guys that we can let walk right now are Palms, Fasching, and Martin. And whereas the latter two are "logo", re-signing Palms practically eliminates our abilities on the UFA market.
And of those under contract, it only seems like MacLean and Engvall are all that buriable in the minors.
It ain't gonna be easy for Lamoriello to follow up on all that change talk he had after the trade deadline.
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GM4Hire
Registered User
The only way Lou or even his replacement (Trying to remain hopeful he is gone) , is a major deal, otherwise, like others have mentioned , the contracts and player values won’t allow for much maneuverability.
You can disagree with how anyone might weigh considerations, but trading away something from a team that has so little with 20ish games to go also has impacts on NYI assets - that is, players that whose rights and/or contracts remain with NYI after the season. My point about this year is that the consensus is that this year the 'I can't tell you what to expect' factor for draft prospects begins before the end of the 2nd round. My opinion is that if it were like the 2024 draft, I'd have different opinion. So, if you want to call my attitude 'defeatist' I'll call yours 'dogmatic'.
I have no idea what 'understanding' LL might have with Palmieri. My guess is LL gave him a framework for a deal, and Palmieri wasn't wowed enough to sign without checking the market, but Palmieri agreed he'd sooner play for money/years on that level with NYI than anywhere else so long as he wasn't traded.
From the pov of evaluation, I completely disagree with LL. I think Palmieri (unlike, say, Beauvillier) is a liability at even strength. But if *my* evaluation is correct, then he isn't even worth a 2nd round pick.
periferal
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Glory Days
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I never said he was as good as Boychuk. All I said was that I saw him as a Boychuk replacement. I never saw the offensive ability others were hopeful for.
Throttle
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One has to assume as you have that Lou presented the framework of a deal, but Palms played his hand and maybe did not want to get traded playing he will reup.
From Lou’s perspective, Palms needed to be moved based on the Isles position in the standings. If you moved Nelson and didn’t get an NHL player back, then you have already made your move: you are not supporting the team to get a playoff spot.
So, keeping Palms is beyond the pale. He’s a avg 25 G scorer the past two seasons, he’s money in the playoffs. He nets you a 1st or 2nd plus a mediocre prospect. More importantly, the Isles need to trade Palms to get assets for future use. That’s truly the only way the Isles will be able to solve their offensive woes - they need to use assets to acquire it - short and long term. Holding onto Palms doesn’t solve that.
Palms has every right to command another $4-5M salary after netting 24Gs with an anemic lineup up front. He knows it, so for what may be his last or second to last contract, he’ll chase it.
Throttle
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Doubtful it happens, but the Isles really need to flip JGP for asset(s), buy out Duclair, and trade Barzal to re deploy his cap space and adjust how the team plays.
I don’t see Lou moving anyone on the blueline - not his MO.
Mr Misunderstood
Loser Point User
For a team who needs as drastic a change as the current Isles do, I don't think you can shake a stick at an extra 2nd rounder.
Whether that was used to move up in the draft, used as a "sweetener" in some other player trade or even used to draft the potential of an 18 year old with the benefit of cutting the tie with Palmieri...those options are all better than where we currently stand with Palms.
Now if Palms signs a team-friendly 2yr/$4.5m per, I'll change my tune.
But letting him walk for nothing is terrible (prepare for one of HFIsles favorite buzzwords) "asset management" and is simply due to Lou's stubbornness.
Well, how much of a role did that play for Boston?
I mean, I guess we can't know. But Sweeney decided not to worry about that kind of thing whatsoever. With McAvoy out and an uphill battle for a wildcard spot, he decided to go all in on setting things up for next season and beyond - after years of contending.
As some of us have written along the way, the minute Nelson was moved off of a Barzalless team, the white flag had been waved. Not officially - but understood by all who understand the NHL world. So, why not just see it through and then give everyone a look who you need to know more about or who you have to make decisions on?
I just don't think a Lee or Horvat or the Dmen would have given a darn if management had taken a little bit more of a clean house route, especially if none of the core players were involved. Even if someone did feel a bit buthurt, then that's when you say, "You're ending this season pretty much like each of the last four. Changes in course happen. Time to be a pro and suck it up."
Don't think it'd get that far though. These guys would understand.
I'd say - and I think the scouting community would agree with me - that there are players to be found in every single draft. It's your scouting staff's job to find them. Give them darts, their abilities have a greater chance of unfolding.
Besides, draft picks aren't just there to be used, but also give you more ammo to make deals with.
I see where you're coming from but I think 'pragmatic' would be more accurate. My statements of late are based to a degree on what we've experienced over the past four seasons, but this season is the one that has pushed fans over the top and thus, in the direction of my last post (and many in recent weeks).
You can only keep doing the same thing for so long and keep getting the roundabout same results before enough should be enough.
Now the ball is in Malkin's court.
The pragmatic fan would say, if your upcoming UFA won't sign and you're not sitting in a secured playoff spot, then you're damned to move him.
It has to be done. It's business.
It's a back-to-the-wall position in which you're required to turn one asset into another.
I know that's a little too cut-n-dry for some in the fanbase, but having a GM who'd work like that would be a fresh breeze for the diehards out there.
The positive resonance of the Nelson deal was certainly a sign of that.
I think, in addition to what I wrote in the last post, Lou wants to keep Palmieri in the fold to be a 20+ goal scorer here and felt his best shot of achieving that - although anything but a certainty - was by not moving him.
Obviously, there are fans here that don't think Palms even SHOULD be part of our next step, but that's neither here or there with respect to what his trade value was.
Now, if you're trying to indicate that Beauvillier - who did earn his team a 2nd round pick - was worth more on the trade market at the beginning of March than the 20-goal Palms would have been, I think most of us here will be questioning your understanding of the market.
Alas, Palmieri's trade value at the deadline would have been set by the market - at a heightened stage, no less(!) - and we saw players having worse seasons get moved for a return that'd indicate that Palmieri was certainly going to fetch a 2nd rounder - perhaps even a B prospect on top depending on the competition for his services.
That's certainly what no less than i.e. the Beauvillier, Laughton, Tanev, and Kuzmenko deals told me.
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leeroggy
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On the broadcast, they mentioned he had only 2 goals after coming over, and that was with playing a chunk with Ovi and Strome.
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I'd take Bylsma for Bridgeport but not for the NHL club. I think Bylsma has a pretty good track record in the AHL if I'm remembering correctly.
Mr Misunderstood
Loser Point User
We wouldn't be asking him to score goals, we'd be asking him to be an upgrade over Gatcomb, Fasching, MacLean.
And come on, you know Beau shows up bigger in the playoffs anyway
leeroggy
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But we have to MAKE the playoffs first . . . and I don't see him as an upgrade on GatcombWe wouldn't be asking him to score goals, we'd be asking him to be an upgrade over Gatcomb, Fasching, MacLean.
And come on, you know Beau shows up bigger in the playoffs anyway
Okay, I take back the dogmatic, and I'll go with uncharitable.
I do NOT know the market, and I do not have any information about NYI trade negotiations (who does?), but i can identify a player whose turnovers lead to goals against because the player who turned the puck over couldn't get back in the play. so maybe Palmieiri was worth about the same as the only comparable player in your list - Kuzmenko. the rest are different or play completely different roles.
As for Boston... well Don Sweeney is the GM best known for firing Bruce Cassidy, and Jim Montgomery. So, he's definitely not impulsive.
(the sarcasm is meant to gob, not drip)
doublechili
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Just using your post as an opportunity to talk about "asset management". Asset management is mentioned a lot because it's very important - it's basically a GM's job description. They take info from their scouts, cap people, analytics staff, etc., and juggle players, prospects, picks, cap space, etc. to maximize asset values. If a GM isn't managing assets well, they're not doing their job. It's Lou's biggest problem - he has a pre-Cap/UFA/RFA mindset (ie., philosophy and capacity) in a Cap/UFA/RFA league. And it's why I don't quite get the talk about Weekes for a GM job - what in his background indicates he's qualified to do all the things that an NHL GM needs to do to be successful? Knowing/evaluating players is just one part of the job, and that's really something that can be delegated to staff to a large extent. I'm not picking on Weekes per se, and maybe he'll end up being great, but I'm not sure I see his executive qualifications as basically an ex-player, broadcaster, rumor compiler?
If Beau only scores 13 goals for us I don’t think that’s an upgrade over Gatcomb, unless he’s willing to accept Gatcomb’s salary. I believe Gatcomb can get to 13 goals if he plays 82 games and might only command 875-900,000. Beauvillier will get $2M as a UFA.We wouldn't be asking him to score goals, we'd be asking him to be an upgrade over Gatcomb, Fasching, MacLean.
And come on, you know Beau shows up bigger in the playoffs anyway
IslesNorway
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