Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[LeapOnOver]

I don't disagree with that and DeAngelo has been very good overall. My only point is that because of our dismal organizational depth Lou was forced to bring in players who, from a character and/or work ethic point of view, he would not normally have on one of his teams.

I get ya, and my only point is that even a team with great organizational depth would have been pretty decimated with the injuries we encountered on defense.

 

[LeapOnOver]

If you had to buyout Duclair or Engvall, who are you selecting?

Judging by what I see from Duclair on the Isles, it is him. I have not followed his career or even really noticed him when we played against teams he was on. He looked great in preseason and before he got injured. So, I really don't know what's going on there. Is he Player Assistance Program bound? He's not what he looked like he would be.

Engvall's gripes are pretty simple. He's a big guy that doesn't use his body enough and he makes poor decisions with the puck in especially the defensive and neutral zone. He's really a pond hockey player with enough skill to play in the NHL. I'd keep him over Duclair because I still think the effort is gonna be there from Engvall, and the speed is always a weapon, he just needs sheltered minutes and has to be with some defensively responsible forwards due to his mental lapses.

I'm not even sure I could continue to unpack what is wrong with Duclair. His history suggests he's not a terrible hockey player, but that's what he looks like right now. He's either bad at hockey or going through it. No idea what it is, but as an outsider looking in it doesn't seem even definable.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Duclair.

Hated this signing from the beginning. Not gonna go back and revisit those, but I was very opposed to this. Plenty of reasons it wouldn't work out, only a small chance it would, and it's been a complete disaster.

[B]@impaaaaaact thought dude was gonna be great[/B] and defended how he had a couple of good seasons. He's not great, he's barely touches good on rare instances, and clearly this signing has been an objective failure with a player who clearly has a shit attitude and can't last on a team.

Rent free huh?

This isn’t the dunk you think it is. He’s a speedster that got hurt in game 4 of the season.

I always gave the caveat that he would need to stay healthy to be effective, and that injuries had plagued him throughout his career.

He went from being 96th percentile in high speed bursts last year/pre injury this season to something like 70th afterwards. Obviously losing your best asset as a player is not ideal. Hopefully he’s able to heal up and contribute next season.

 

[periferal]

Mental health issues or not, a quick look at Duclair record should raise a few red flags, but clearly Lou didn't do his due diligence properly.

Correct.

And of course there's the argument that Roy wanted Duclair and thus Lou did him a favor/wanted his coach to be happy. If that is the case then....

1. What does that say about Lou hiring Roy?
2. What does that say about how Roy would fare as a GM?

With each passing moment it's so clear the entire front office needs to be cleared out. Lou, Roy, Chris L, anyone in scouting who blew a top 15 pick over the past decade - Erase the whiteboard and let's get a top notch executive/coaching/scouting team and inject some excitement back into this franchise.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Lou's offseason already starts with the most pressing issue, Noah Dobson.

Then he has to accomodate Romanov and Holmström, two RFAs who have arguably been our brightest lights this season and hold immense promise for our desired success in coming years.

Then comes Tsyplakov.

Boqvist, Gatcomb, and Perunovich are RFAs as well.

On the farm, Bolduc and Beckman are also notable RFAs.

The whole lot of them is arbitration eligible.

No telling where he's going with UFAs Palmieri, DeAngelo, Reilly, Fasching, and Martin, but we know he obviously will be looking to retain Palmieri and he sure as hell should be looking to retain DeAngelo.

Most all of that has to be done by the time draft weekend arrives and if we've got a top 10-12 pick, then we're staring at a very solid prospect addition. For those wondering, we've actually got all 7 picks this summer.

Mindblowing... I know.

In other words, Lou has a $%§king boatload of incredibly important work before free agency even begins.

And he can't mess up the Dobson situation.

As mentioned recently elsewhere, he's either signed at market value on a long-term contract or you move him in a blockbuster deal (likely allowing the trade partner to come to a deal with him first in order to solidify the return).

Is a one-year bridge deal possible, allowing him to become a UFA next summer?

A rational person certainly wouldn't go that route.

If you ask me, it's too much work to have on your plate when your key goal is to actually get better heading into next season while looking to "get younger".

And I haven't mentioned the dead weight he has to get off this roster...

 

[duster19]

I know right, LOL....

They are letting this shit show go on and on. Our AHL is a joke, Lou's Son is incompentent and should not have a job. The Lou & Roy show is comical. Once again, we are looking like a joke of an organization to everyone in the NHL.

Front office is a huge problem. There are 0 checks it’s just Lou and his son doing whatever. Staple implying Lou is back next year. I’m hoping they move him to a president role and bring in a GM. I’m not sure a 82 year old GM is the face we want trying to lure free agents.

 

[doublechili]

Another way to look at all of this is, why complain about the contracts of Duclair, Engvall, Mayfield, etc., when they're exactly the kind of guys you want on your team if you want to tank and rebuild?

 

[periferal]

Another way to look at all of this is, why complain about the contracts of Duclair, Engvall, Mayfield, etc., when they're exactly the kind of guys you want on your team if you want to tank and rebuild?

Nice spin.

Most other franchises voluntarily do a rebuild as part of a plan. No one wants to do a rebuild. It's not fun for anyone. However sometimes you have no other choice.

Instead we have a GM who absolutely refuses to consider a rebuild...But ironically is so poor at his job that he is leading us to where it's going to be necessary regardless.

 

[doublechili]

Nice spin.

I make a joke about a few of the bad contracts and it's "spin"? And then you (or your bot) type the same thing that you type in every other post. Do you not see the irony, oh Spin-Meister?

This place is turning into a den of group-think - totally lacking in nuance. I'm a bad man, a very bad man. I'll show myself to The Cornfield.

 

[isles55]

I’m not sure burning bridges with Duclair with only 8 games to go—in what was essentially a lost season—was a smart move.

Instead of writing off this season and trying again next year, they might be in a position where either Roy or Duclair has to go.

 

[leeroggy]

I make a joke about a few of the bad contracts and it's "spin"? And then you (or your bot) type the same thing that you type in every other post. Do you not see the irony, oh Spin-Meister?

This place is turning into a den of group-think - totally lacking in nuance. I'm a bad man, a very bad man. I'll show myself to The Cornfield.

View attachment 1006211

Shane, come back!

 

[periferal]

I make a joke about a few of the bad contracts and it's "spin"? And then you (or your bot) type the same thing that you type in every other post. Do you not see the irony, oh Spin-Meister?

This place is turning into a den of group-think - totally lacking in nuance. I'm a bad man, a very bad man. I'll show myself to The Cornfield.

View attachment 1006211

Chill chili...

The emoji was literally a playful way of saying I agreed with your post.

 

[doublechili]

Shane, come back!

I'm not going anywhere - I just can't resist an opportunity to work in that Twilight Zone episode.

 

[IslesNorway]

Duclair was a classic case of high risk-high reward UFA signing. He could have turned out to be a great signing, but alas has fallen into the Islanders sink hole of being decidedly average. He could still turn it around next season, but he needs momentum, and getting momentum is hard with the team being what it is. But the way he has become a total nonfactor is worrying indeed.

Engvall, on the other hand, has somehow stepped it up of late. He now looks a 3 million player some nights.

 

[Doublechin]

Between the mediocre prospect pool, I think Eiserman becomes another Oliver Wahlstrom to the extremely mid NHL roster I think now's the time to blow it up.

Knowing Lou, he's too old to rebuild, I think the move is to move on and get a GM and commit to a rebuild.

This year's draft is average at best and the quality sees a dip at 10 but the next two drafts have two of the best prospects in recent times (McKenna and Dupont)

Now's the time to commit and rebuild but in order to do so, 4 guys have go to go and these are Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat and Dobson

I Don't get why owners allow their organizations to stand in such a situation, where you're either struggling to make the playoffs or miss and then draft late in the lottery. That's the recipe for being stuck in a mediocrity loop

You either win or commit to lose and now's the time

I'd post the same thing in the Red Wings, Penguins and Bruins forums if I wasn't bored

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

Rent free huh?

This isn’t the dunk you think it is. He’s a speedster that got hurt in game 4 of the season.

I always gave the caveat that he would need to stay healthy to be effective, and that injuries had plagued him throughout his career.

He went from being 96th percentile in high speed bursts last year/pre injury this season to something like 70th afterwards. Obviously losing your best asset as a player is not ideal. Hopefully he’s able to heal up and contribute next season.

Rent free is quite the bold assumption. You just made it more obvious than most how amazing you thought he was going to be. You can eat crow, you were wrong. But when someone is so vocally supportive of a player it's easy to remember.

He's getting older, speed and aging generally don't go well together. And based on you thinking he was going to provide any sort of difference and he's been awful, that's the dunk my guy. He wasn't in the top 10 in speed bursts from EDGE last season, nor any of the past few seasons. Point, Mackinnon, McDavid, those are actual difference makers with speed.

Injuries sure, but this piss attitude of taking a leave from absence at the end of the year because the coach hurt his feelings? He's been called out by a coach before. Seems like maybe it's an attitude problem as well.

He won't contribute next year either and this contract will be another weight holding the team down. Too many years and too much money for a guy who isn't a difference maker.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Rent free is quite the bold assumption. You just made it more obvious than most how amazing you thought he was going to be. You can eat crow, you were wrong. But when someone is so vocally supportive of a player it's easy to remember.

He's getting older, speed and aging generally don't go well together. And based on you thinking he was going to provide any sort of difference and he's been awful, that's the dunk my guy. He wasn't in the top 10 in speed bursts from EDGE last season, nor any of the past few seasons. Point, Mackinnon, McDavid, those are actual difference makers with speed.

Injuries sure, but this piss attitude of taking a leave from absence at the end of the year because the coach hurt his feelings? He's been called out by a coach before. Seems like maybe it's an attitude problem as well.

He won't contribute next year either and this contract will be another weight holding the team down. Too many years and too much money for a guy who isn't a difference maker.

it’s obviously rent free if you’re cold tagging me into a conversation I wasn’t participating in over posts from 6 months ago lmao.



Anyway I saw this in graph form but couldn’t find it again just now - hopefully Friedman is a reputable enough source. He was obviously not healed up from the major injury he had. I for one hope he’s able to get back to being able to use his defining characteristic as a hockey player because he obviously sucks without it.

 

[xECK29x]

it’s obviously rent free if you’re cold tagging me into a conversation I wasn’t participating in over posts from 6 months ago lmao.



Anyway I saw this in graph form but couldn’t find it again just now. He was obviously not healed up from the major injury he had. I for one hope he’s able to get back to being able to use his defining characteristic as a hockey player because he obviously sucks without it.

All he has is his skating and shot if one is gone he’s done

 

[impaaaaaact]

All he has is his skating and shot if one is gone he’s done

Yeah, which is part of the reason why I kept making sure to say if he's healthy it'll be a great addition. That's how it is with speedy wingers... when they start slowing down they don't really have anything to offer. Gotta hope with Duclair that he'll be able to rest it now and get back up to speed in the offseason or else he's a definite buyout candidate.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

it’s obviously rent free if you’re cold tagging me into a conversation I wasn’t participating in over posts from 6 months ago lmao.



Anyway I saw this in graph form but couldn’t find it again just now - hopefully Friedman is a reputable enough source. He was obviously not healed up from the major injury he had. I for one hope he’s able to get back to being able to use his defining characteristic as a hockey player because he obviously sucks without it.

Nah, just called having a decent memory. It's not tough. Plus you made some outlandish accusations to me last time so it stuck.

That speed graph means nothing when he doesn't do anything with it. Even when he's had speed, no one would confuse him for Point or Mackinnon. That graph also doesn't show that he's not in the top 10 in any recent year, which can easily be tracked.

Injury or not, he's not a star who's capable of combining speed and shot. Now as injuries and age build, he'll be even more inept than he's already been. A one year flier would have been okay, but 4 years for this bum was absurd and most people knew it.

It's okay to root for players for whatever reason, homegrown, like their play style, from the same area, etc. I've had a number of players over the years I was a big fan of, but it didn't work. It sucks, but you just gotta admit it.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Nah, just called having a decent memory. It's not tough. Plus you made some outlandish accusations to me last time so it stuck.

That speed graph means nothing when he doesn't do anything with it. Even when he's had speed, no one would confuse him for Point or Mackinnon. That graph also doesn't show that he's not in the top 10 in any recent year, which can easily be tracked.

Injury or not, he's not a star who's capable of combining speed and shot. Now as injuries and age build, he'll be even more inept than he's already been. A one year flier would have been okay, but 4 years for this bum was absurd and most people knew it.

It's okay to root for players for whatever reason, homegrown, like their play style, from the same area, etc. I've had a number of players over the years I was a big fan of, but it didn't work. It sucks, but you just gotta admit it.

yeah I’m just not going to agree with you here. Obviously he’s not a star, no one has ever claimed that and he’s not being paid to be one. Not sure that Point or MacKinnon are relevant comps here.

That being said he has always produced when healthy and playing in a top 6 and there’s literally been no new information on that front because he got injured immediately. He gets back to full health and hopefully he looks like he did in the preseason and first couple of games.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

yeah I’m just not going to agree with you here. Obviously he’s not a star, no one has ever claimed that and he’s not being paid to be one. Not sure that Point or MacKinnon are relevant comps here.

That being said he has always produced when healthy and playing in a top 6 and there’s literally been no new information on that front because he got injured immediately. He gets back to full health and hopefully he looks like he did in the preseason and first couple of games.

You don't have to, but when you insult me like you did before, I'm going to remember incidents and call someone out when they're wrong.

The comps are quite relevant because your continued focus is on his speed and what percentile he's in. I'm showing that players with higher speed also generally come with higher skill, a notable exception being Owen Tippett. You only defend Duclair because you like him, not because he's some great player.

He's rarely healthy, and even when he has he's surpassed 20 goals only 3 times and eclipsed 50 points once. For someone being in the league 10 years, that's not star power. He's not a top 6 player.

He should have been back to full health now, but he decided his hurt feelings are more important than his teammates and finishing strong. What a way to show your coach!

 

[YearlyLottery]

If Duclair was playing so hurt you would think Roy would have kept his cool about him. The whole situation is amateur hour and something that I have not felt for the organization since the Snow era.

 

[impaaaaaact]

You don't have to, but when you insult me like you did before, I'm going to remember incidents and call someone out when they're wrong.

The comps are quite relevant because your continued focus is on his speed and what percentile he's in. I'm showing that players with higher speed also generally come with higher skill, a notable exception being Owen Tippett. You only defend Duclair because you like him, not because he's some great player.

He's rarely healthy, and even when he has he's surpassed 20 goals only 3 times and eclipsed 50 points once. For someone being in the league 10 years, that's not star power. He's not a top 6 player.

He should have been back to full health now, but he decided his hurt feelings are more important than his teammates and finishing strong. What a way to show your coach!

Bro it’s an insane argument to compare Duclair to MacKinnon lmao. All credibility gone. Again, no one has ever called him a star. You have once again very loudly lost the plot. Muting because I remember where this goes..

 

[impaaaaaact]

If Duclair was playing so hurt you would think Roy would have kept his cool about him. The whole situation is amateur hour and something that I have not felt for the organization since the Snow era.

Yeah, the whole thing is weird. When they announced Duclair wasn’t at practice I assumed they shut him down and put him on the IR because the team was out of the race.
But they didn’t, and didn’t even bring anyone else up so maybe they’re anticipating him coming back? Whole thing makes no sense