Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[SI]

As far as a Dobson trade goes I completely agree on going for value no matter what. I still think there needs to be a fit on the new team if he wants $10 mil which limits the options a little.

I think the Sabres are too obvious for this type of trade. They’re desperate and need to make a competitive move going forward.
What about Dobson + Pageau for Kulich + Power/Byram.
This stops the Sabres from paying 3 LHD $8mil+ and gives them a dynamic RHD they’ve needed plus Pageau gives them experience to replace Kulich which they need or they could flip him for 2nd/3rd at next seasons deadline.
Isles would get a small decline in defense but Power or Byram helps you have another talented defenseman to replace Dobson. I’m also high on Kulich and think he could easily slot into the 2C next season, helping us get exponentially younger. I’d love Horvat-Kulich-Ritchie-Cizikas down the middle next season. And if Ritchie blows up he could move to 2C and Kulich to the wing since he’s versatile.
I think there’s a real trade possibility here. I’d like Peterka too in a Dobson trade, but I don’t think we’d be able to get a quality defenseman in return in addition to replace Dobson.

I like the thinking here... not sure Sabres would give up Kulich, but Sabres and islanders would make great trade candidates - IMO, Power holds more value over Dobson, but I could be wrong. There is also the possibility that swapping of 1st rounders could get Isles closer to Hagens .

There is also Jack Quinn, who could be available and Noah Ostlund a C in Rochester, who might possibly make the jump next season.

 

[Throttle]

Dobson aint that special of a player. The PP sucks with him on it. He’s a waif of a defensive player.

Is there anything in the past 24 months of actually watching the hockey games that says he can anchor a defense and lead it? Nope.

Dobson impacts the game for all the wrong reasons - there’s plenty of evidence of that and there’s zero evidence he’s going to grow out of it.

The Isles already made this mistake at forward. Going with two overpaid underperformers ain’t helping a retool or whatever name you call it.

 

[SI]

If they trade Dobson they need to hit it out of the park and I believe there will more than enough suiters and trade offers to get it right .

my preference is someone like Will Smith (SJS) should Grier decide to parlay a chip like that into a D while drafting a F like Misa , Martone , Hagens to replace Smith to a certain degree

Strong Idea here as well - I doubt the Sharks will trade Will Smith, who also has 2 more years on his ELC and just turned 20!

 

[icelander25]

I like the thinking here... not sure Sabres would give up Kulich, but Sabres and islanders would make great trade candidates - IMO, Power holds more value over Dobson, but I could be wrong. There is also the possibility that swapping of 1st rounders could get Isles closer to Hagens .

There is also Jack Quinn, who could be available and Noah Ostlund a C in Rochester, who might possibly make the jump next season.

Yea, I especially like the idea because I think Buffalo would be willing to overpay a little to get this done, since they're the first team literally everyone will have on their no trade list.
As for Power, I think he's definitely less valuable than Dobson, not by a crazy amount but Dobson's clear. Dobson has an incredibly high offensive ceiling, more so than Power. Also, Power is on the 3rd line making $8mil, and I've seen Buffalo fans prefer Byram over him for similiar money. The only upside with Power over Dobson is age and that's he's locked down long-term.
I could see them being hesitant to trade Kulich, but they're gonna have Tage and Norris as their 1 & 2, with McLeod as a very good 3C. They could easily play him on the wing which isn't a problem but that's devaluing him a bit when you could get a player like Dobson. Also, they have Helenius who will likely come up in 1-2 years. At some point, they need to turn their prospects into real players for wins NOW. Pageau and Dobson do that, while the Isles get younger and cheaper for a couple years.

 

[doublechili]

I'm surprised I haven't seen a Dobson/Barzal package deal to MTL suggested yet. C'mon, get with it.

 

[Throttle]

I'm surprised I haven't seen a Dobson/Barzal package deal to MTL suggested yet. C'mon, get with it.

Suzuki sure does a lot more for $7.88 than Barzal at $9.15. Lou over invested and Barzal has underperformed. Oh well.

 

[SI]

Suzuki sure does a lot more for $7.88 than Barzal at $9.15. Lou over invested and Barzal has underperformed. Oh well.

You continue to misrepresent the situation. Please include the full context regarding why Suzuki's AAV is $7.88 million.

This is Barzal’s third contract—he had a bridge deal. Suzuki, on the other hand, did not take a bridge deal and signed an eight-year contract. In such cases, the AAV is always lower due to the years without arbitration rights following the entry-level contract. Additionally, Suzuki was coming off just one 20-goal season at the time of signing.

 

[Throttle]

You continue to misrepresent the situation. Please include the full context regarding why Suzuki's AAV is $7.88 million.

This is Barzal’s third contract—he had a bridge deal. Suzuki, on the other hand, did not take a bridge deal and signed an eight-year contract. In such cases, the AAV is always lower due to the years without arbitration rights following the entry-level contract. Additionally, Suzuki was coming off just one 20-goal season at the time of signing.

Barzal had how many 20 goal seasons in Oct 2022 when he signed his contract? One, a Dougie hockey special.

So, a bridge deal justified a $2M+ bump for a producing the roughly the same under his bridge deal - and that’s the issue really. $7M for a 55 point ‘center’ - yeesh. He was overpaid on his bridge deal, which then caused the bump on his third deal. Overinvested, underperformed.

 

[LAIcelanders]

The big time .81 PPG, career -65 player has significantly better value than the guy who has a $1.27 million higher cap hit with a higher PPG, double the playoff games and is a career positive player. Suzuki does so much more.

 

[Throttle]

The big time .81 PPG, career -65 player has significantly better value than the guy who has a $1.27 million higher cap hit with a higher PPG, double the playoff games and is a career positive player. Suzuki does so much more.

Newsflash - he ain’t on a good team.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Newsflash - he ain’t on a good team.

Newsflash, neither one are on a good team, lol.

 

[mm11]

The big time .81 PPG, career -65 player has significantly better value than the guy who has a $1.27 million higher cap hit with a higher PPG, double the playoff games and is a career positive player. Suzuki does so much more.

Plus

The big time .81 PPG, career -65 player has significantly better value than the guy who has a $1.27 million higher cap hit with a higher PPG, double the playoff games and is a career positive player. Suzuki does so much more.

The . 81 ppg guy never put up multiple 80 point seasons, generated any NHL hardware or won more playoff rounds. .81 guy played what six seasons now. As one says. Ain't gonna get better right? No room for improvement

 

[impaaaaaact]

Plus
The . 81 ppg guy never put up multiple 80 point seasons, generated any NHL hardware or won more playoff rounds. .81 guy played what six seasons now. As one says. Ain't gonna get better right? No room for improvement

Suzuki is definitely more valuable than Barzal right now but comparing their contracts is peak cherry picking lolol. Suzuki scores the same amount of points but more of them are goals, and he's stuck at center

 

[Osakahaus]

I think the sad reality is that this team "deserves" playoffs but the team literally shouldn't even be this close to begin with.

 

[Osakahaus]

Barzal had how many 20 goal seasons in Oct 2022 when he signed his contract? One, a Dougie hockey special.

So, a bridge deal justified a $2M+ bump for a producing the roughly the same under his bridge deal - and that’s the issue really. $7M for a 55 point ‘center’ - yeesh. He was overpaid on his bridge deal, which then caused the bump on his third deal. Overinvested, underperformed.

His wingers? The islanders wingers are ineffective at scoring with Barzal. Never a lick at trying to get an actual offensive winger for him.

 

[WangMustGo]

this team is full of problems, Barzal is not one of them. On a true contender Barzal is your 3rd best forward, unfortunately Lou completely failed to find better forwards, and that is not on Barzal.

 

[Osakahaus]

this team is full of problems, Barzal is not one of them. On a true contender Barzal is your 3rd best forward, unfortunately Lou completely failed to find better forwards, and that is not on Barzal.

Neither is Sorokin but the fanbase needs scapegoats other than the general manager

 

[Arsenalogist24]

I think our decaying and waiver wire defense is a much bigger problem than Barzal and Sorokies.

Hoping this summer 1 or 2 of Mayfield Pulock Pelech is shipped out. Deangelo-Romanov has been a good pairing so I’m in favor of signing Tony. I’ve gotta look at the UFA class this summer for more defenders

Really only George on the way up, Bolduc seems a long shot now. Odelius? Pulkkinen and Veilleux still a ways away if they even come good.

Best player in the draft is still the way to go, but I hope it’s a DMan.

 

[PK Cronin]

Neither is Sorokin but the fanbase needs scapegoats other than the general manager

It can be both.

The idea among those dissatisfied with Barzal has always been to trade him for something else worthwhile. I'll never understand why this is a crazy idea. It isn't working with Barzal, it hasn't worked with him being the guy, whether it's his fault or not doesn't matter. What is the path forward to acquire the talent we're all looking for?

 

[Throttle]

Newsflash, neither one are on a good team, lol.

Ones been playing lotto balls, the other playing in playoff bracket. So, while you might not want to classify one as a good team, the standings demonstrate otherwise.

 

[miscs75]

this team is full of problems, Barzal is not one of them. On a true contender Barzal is your 3rd best forward, unfortunately Lou completely failed to find better forwards, and that is not on Barzal.

I got 99 problems but Barzal ain’t one.

 

[Throttle]

Plus
The . 81 ppg guy never put up multiple 80 point seasons, generated any NHL hardware or won more playoff rounds. .81 guy played what six seasons now. As one says. Ain't gonna get better right? No room for improvement

That hardware is 3 coaches ago. Those playoff stats are two coaches ago under Barry as a 4 line team.

Tossing Suzukis -60 is kinda like saying Tkachuk sucks too bc he’s -60. Both are on not so good teams. Being a - player year over year is expected. Bedard is -82.

 

[Throttle]

It can be both.

The idea among those dissatisfied with Barzal has always been to trade him for something else worthwhile. I'll never understand why this is a crazy idea. It isn't working with Barzal, it hasn't worked with him being the guy, whether it's his fault or not doesn't matter. What is the path forward to acquire the talent we're all looking for?

It’s so funny how this fanbase gets so triggered over any criticism of Barzal.

Your paragraph summarizes it simply and accurately.

 

[Chockey22]

I think our decaying and waiver wire defense is a much bigger problem than Barzal and Sorokies.

Hoping this summer 1 or 2 of Mayfield Pulock Pelech is shipped out. Deangelo-Romanov has been a good pairing so I’m in favor of signing Tony. I’ve gotta look at the UFA class this summer for more defenders

Really only George on the way up, Bolduc seems a long shot now. Odelius? Pulkkinen and Veilleux still a ways away if they even come good.

Best player in the draft is still the way to go, but I hope it’s a DMan.

I think they are all problems - to greater or lesser extents; but you can’t solve every problem in a single offseason; it takes foresight and planning, which is not something our GM seems to have. Getting rid of 2 of Mayfield, Pulock or Pelech would be huge in terms of addressing the cap situation, but probably does not make the team better next year (if that’s the goal). We don’t really have good replacements for Pulock or Pelech. On the right side, Deangelo is not good defensively, nor is Boqvist - so having them replace Pulock weakens the right side D. On the left, George is not ready and there are no replacements in the system for Pelech. I am not sure there are any UFA D that would be an improvement either, and would likely entail ridiculous overpayment.
So, I agree Lou should be moving two of those three, but on the expectation that it likely makes the D core worse while providing cap flexibility for the future.

 

[Throttle]

this team is full of problems, Barzal is not one of them. On a true contender Barzal is your 3rd best forward, unfortunately Lou completely failed to find better forwards, and that is not on Barzal.

And what true contender is that? Toronto and TB are the only contenders that have $9M 3rd best forwards. And TBs is a UFA contract. So, that argument fails pretty quickly, but ok.