Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Not at all...just curious, back when the team was winning and the general consensus was that Lou was the reason, I was just wondering who could see past the initial euphoria that maybe this wasn't our best option as GM. Never expected that we would see a 180 degree change from just about everyone.

Two things can be true at the same time.

 

[doublechili]

Not at all...just curious, back when the team was winning and the general consensus was that Lou was the reason, I was just wondering who could see past the initial euphoria that maybe this wasn't our best option as GM. Never expected that we would see a 180 degree change from just about everyone.

I think most people are fans of the team and rate the GM strictly based on how the team is looking (and not with any bias about the GM himself). That can be the team winning vs. losing, or how the future looks for a losing team. Under Snow the Isles were bad. Lou/Trotz came in and had their roster evaluation pow wow, and the team turned it around on the ice and also in their perception around the league. They were one of the final 4 teams two straight years, arguably missing a Cup via a 1-0 game 7 loss to TBL. The GM and the coach were on the same page as to how the team should be constructed and how they should play. I question why anyone would be legitimately complaining about the GM at that point, even if they had reservations?

The next season, missing the playoffs and firing Trotz, people had reason to complain and did. No reason to question that either. I think the % of posters who are personally invested in a GM (or coach) one way or the other is much less than you might think. It's really just job performance at the end of the day.

 

[MJF]

Nelson to WIN for a 1st in 25, 3rd in 26, 5th in 27
Palmieri (50%) to LA for a 2nd in 26, 3rd in 25
Pageau to NJD for a 2 2nds in 25 and Erik Haula
Casey to TOR for a 3rd in 26, 4th in 27 and Ryan Reaves.

I don’t mind any of these. Just don’t think the Devils would move Erik Haula.

Not at all...just curious, back when the team was winning and the general consensus was that Lou was the reason, I was just wondering who could see past the initial euphoria that maybe this wasn't our best option as GM. Never expected that we would see a 180 degree change from just about everyone.

Well I never expected that when Lou got to the fork in the road in 2022 he would take the wrong route, because up until that point thing were going well.

 

[PK Cronin]

Not at all...just curious, back when the team was winning and the general consensus was that Lou was the reason, I was just wondering who could see past the initial euphoria that maybe this wasn't our best option as GM. Never expected that we would see a 180 degree change from just about everyone.

I think he did a nice job during the initial years and a not so nice job after that. Am I supposed to just dig my heels in and not change my view on the job he's doing currently because I liked what he did in the past?

Were you right about Lamoriello in game 3 of the ECF in 2020? Were you right about him in game 6 of the ECF in 2021? Every GM is going to have shortcomings and there will always be a time when they are relieved of their services, Lamoriello has now surpassed his serviceable window and should be replaced, and that's okay.

If someone asked me if I'd take that same chance after seeing the results, I'd absolutely say yes. That was the best hockey I've ever seen the Islanders play in my lifetime. It didn't work out, that's sports. Everything from his first day to now is still worlds better than anything that came before it in my life. Now it's time to improve on that.

I do take issue with the senile, passing the game by, the over the top criticism of his rules, because I largely think that's just a matter of opinion. Some people wants players to wear suits to games, others think it is ridiculous. Some like building from the net out and some want high flying offense. It's just a matter of preference. People want to praise Trotz but shit on Lamoriello but that's just a personal bias because the truth is that it is impossible to parse out the impact one had on the other, and they were a team during that stretch. I'm glad it aligned the way it did because it was a lot of fun. Hopefully we get more fun times in the not so distant future.

 

[periferal]

I think he did a nice job during the initial years and a not so nice job after that.

But what did Lou really do in those "initial years"? The teams that went to the ECF in 2020 and 2021 were essentially Snow's teams with Barry Trotz.

And don't underestimate the honeymoon period Lou would've had regardless given we were coming off the embarrassing wang/snow/capuano/weight years.

Of course many will say that Trotz would've never come here without Lou and I think that's bogus. Trotz left Washington because they weren't willing to meet his price on a new contract...Which Malkin obviously was willing to do. Add in the fact that when Trotz was let go by the Caps there was exactly ONE job open in the entire NHL...The Isles.

Lou is also the one who (rightly) felt intimidated by Trotz wanted to be a GM and let him go. Since then he's had to hired two more coaches and we're a fringe playoff team at best because he didn't have one of the best coaches of all time here to bail him out from his terrible roster creation.

Lou is doing now what he did back in 2018 which is a bad job (as we can see by the results). He's just fully exposed now.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I think he did a nice job during the initial years and a not so nice job after that. Am I supposed to just dig my heels in and not change my view on the job he's doing currently because I liked what he did in the past?

Were you right about Lamoriello in game 3 of the ECF in 2020? Were you right about him in game 6 of the ECF in 2021? Every GM is going to have shortcomings and there will always be a time when they are relieved of their services, Lamoriello has now surpassed his serviceable window and should be replaced, and that's okay.

If someone asked me if I'd take that same chance after seeing the results, I'd absolutely say yes. That was the best hockey I've ever seen the Islanders play in my lifetime. It didn't work out, that's sports. Everything from his first day to now is still worlds better than anything that came before it in my life. Now it's time to improve on that.

I do take issue with the senile, passing the game by, the over the top criticism of his rules, because I largely think that's just a matter of opinion. Some people wants players to wear suits to games, others think it is ridiculous. Some like building from the net out and some want high flying offense. It's just a matter of preference. People want to praise Trotz but shit on Lamoriello but that's just a personal bias because the truth is that it is impossible to parse out the impact one had on the other, and they were a team during that stretch. I'm glad it aligned the way it did because it was a lot of fun. Hopefully we get more fun times in the not so distant future.

The first bolded: You and I have had that discussion before and I still think it is a total cop out. It's like saying you won the first few battles of a war but lost the war. In the end what have you really achieved? You've expended resources and gained a few feel good moments but in the end you left things worse than you found them. That is Lou's legacy.

As for the second bolded, and I mean this sincerely, it puts how you feel about Lou and these last seven years in perspective. It also makes me feel sorry for you if the Lou years are the high water mark of your Islander and I am assuming NHL fandom experience.

 

[Glorydays22]

Pettersson is trash absolutely wild that people want him. His game has regressed hard. If you think Barzal is frustrating just wait to watch Pettersson making 11+ a year. Keep that guy far far away from here. Damaged goods. No f***ing thank you.

Preach brother, Preach

 

[PK Cronin]

But what did Lou really do in those "initial years"? The teams that went to the ECF in 2020 and 2021 were essentially Snow's teams with Barry Trotz.

Have you ever worked somewhere with bad management? Have you ever been somewhere that the bad management was replaced by someone who really knew what they were doing? I think it helps lift everything up and it does have impact on the quality of work done within the organization. His stature around the league immediately brings credibility to the organization and the new ownership, with players, coaches, media, and agents.

I happen to like Lou's rules. There's no definitive way to say that they made a positive or negative impact but my opinion is that they're a positive.

He was able to bring in some veterans that performed well in those early years. Filppula, Komorav (despite the complaints people have), Lehner, Brassard, Varlamov, Pageau, Greene, and a few smaller moves were all done in the first two seasons. The Palmieri move later was also a good one.

Also, there's no way to prove it but I do not believe Trotz comes to the Islanders if Lamoriello isn't in charge. It was a similar roster, but not the same, it was missing the best player from the previous years and there was a better overall performance.

And don't underestimate the honeymoon period Lou would've had regardless given we were coming off the embarrassing wang/snow/capuano/weight years.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly or how that's measurable.

Of course many will say that Trotz would've never come here without Lou and I think that's bogus. Trotz left Washington because they weren't willing to meet his price on a new contract...Which Malkin obviously was willing to do. Add in the fact that when Trotz was let go by the Caps there was exactly ONE job open in the entire NHL...The Isles.

The idea that Trotz was forced to take the Islanders job because it was the only one available is frankly ludicrous. Lots of coaches sit around and wait for a good opportunity to become available, it usually doesn't take long. Further, if we're looking at this objectively then this is a moot point. Lamoriello was GM when he hired Trotz and that's just a fact so he gets to take credit, whether you like it or not.

Lou is also the one who (rightly) felt intimidated by Trotz wanted to be a GM and let him go. Since then he's had to hired two more coaches and we're a fringe playoff team at best because he didn't have one of the best coaches of all time here to bail him out from his terrible roster creation.

I don't know about him feeling intimidated by Trotz but he owns the decision for letting him go and the results that have followed. I'm a huge fan of Trotz and the way he coached but I don't think Trotz is coaching this team to the playoffs this year either because of the other decisions Lamoriello has made.

Lou is doing now what he did back in 2018 which is a bad job (as we can see by the results). He's just fully exposed now.

That's because you want to give all the credit to Trotz and none to Lamoriello for the success they did have. You're free to do that but the facts don't change because of your opinion on the matter, even if you might be right. We'll never actually know and the thing we do know is that the New York Islanders have made the playoffs 5 out of 6 seasons with Lamoriello at the helm (likely about to be 5 of 7). We also know that the team is on a downward trajectory at the moment.

We don't need to diminish past accomplishments to criticize the moves he's made since. He's made bad decisions and it's costing the team. I'm not interested in him being in charge of a retool so I think he needs to go. Even if he doesn't go, I hope he does take steps towards fixing the roster that he's been too attached to.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I don’t mind any of these. Just don’t think the Devils would move Erik Haula.

I think that's a big part of the deal, that guy sucks and is a contract anchor.

 

[PK Cronin]

The first bolded: You and I have had that discussion before and I still think it is a total cop out. It's like saying you won the first few battles of a war but lost the war. In the end what have you really achieved? You've expended resources and gained a few feel good moments but in the end you left things worse than you found them. That is Lou's legacy.

It's not a cop out. On a long enough timeline every team is going to have ups and downs, it doesn't make it a cop out to enjoy the good times. If the team doesn't win the cup then it's not a success, I understand that. That doesn't mean I couldn't have had fun along the way. Everyone's version of success is totally different and you can always be pessimistic and be right, it's the easiest position to have.

The Islanders had the opportunity to win the cup, with an older group, and took it. It didn't work out and that sucks.

I also don't think this team is worse than when Lamoriello came aboard. If anything, it's the fact that it's pretty much exactly the same that is my issue with it (in terms of overall skill).

As for the second bolded, and I mean this sincerely, it puts how you feel about Lou and these last seven years in perspective. It also makes me feel sorry for you if the Lou years are the high water mark of your Islander and I am assuming NHL fandom experience.

I can't help what year I was born and everything that transpired after. Why wouldn't any Islanders fan who is of similar age view it as a positive? Hell, even for the fans who saw the dynasty, how are the most successful seasons in 30 years viewed negatively? Simply because they didn't win it all? Okay, I guess.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

One funny thing to me, is I do think Lou changed his style over the years of not being loyal (cutting Eberle, Bailey, even Cal being effective in his last year), his free agency/trades of instead of targeting Andy Greene's, Komarovs, Khunackels and going for speed in Duclair, Engvall and less heavy guys has not worked out. I think back to Trotz of Filpula, Khunackel and Leo saying they are hard workers and winners. Now we go for a different identity and it hasn't worked.

 

[The Real JT]

Does anyone here randomly check in on this board hoping there’s a surprise thread announcing one of those things that nearly all of us think needs to be done?

I do it it on a daily basis. Apparently today is not that day.

 

[PK Cronin]

One funny thing to me, is I do think Lou changed his style over the years of not being loyal (cutting Eberle, Bailey, even Cal being effective in his last year), his free agency/trades of instead of targeting Andy Greene's, Komarovs, Khunackels and going for speed in Duclair, Engvall and less heavy guys has not worked out. I think back to Trotz of Filpula, Khunackel and Leo saying they are hard workers and winners. Now we go for a different identity and it hasn't worked.

Remember when Lamoriello was definitely 100% going to trade the Islanders 1st round draft pick at the deadline last year? Then he was definitely going to trade it before the draft...we just ignore those moments he doesn't do the thing we've been assured he was going to do because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Remember when Lamoriello was definitely 100% going to trade the Islanders 1st round draft pick at the deadline last year? Then he was definitely going to trade it before the draft...we just ignore those moments he doesn't do the thing we've been assured he was going to do because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Even the trade to pick up an extra second was great, didn't get credit for that.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Remember when Lamoriello was definitely 100% going to trade the Islanders 1st round draft pick at the deadline last year? Then he was definitely going to trade it before the draft...we just ignore those moments he doesn't do the thing we've been assured he was going to do because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Some people enjoy being preemptively upset by hypothetical scenarios.

 

[Zeeker]

Remember when Lamoriello was definitely 100% going to trade the Islanders 1st round draft pick at the deadline last year? Then he was definitely going to trade it before the draft...we just ignore those moments he doesn't do the thing we've been assured he was going to do because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Maybe, but there is a bit of a false equivalence of the above to the “Lou definitely won’t trade the UFAs” concerns.

It is much more likely that he’ll hold onto the UFAs than he was to trade the first round pick last year.

 

[MarsTBOW]

If Lou Runs the same team back out there next year how many will defend him?
Are we trying to win a championship or just treading water so everyone is comfy on the Island?
This Core ain't winning shit....