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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

Chockey22 said:
Respectfully disagree - not a single rental over the past decade has brought in that quality of a return.
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Highly unusual return, I admit.

But I pointed out that I could see that type of thing coming from Yzerman thanks to the many assets in that organization and the desire to pep up what is looking like a very special 2nd half to this season after years outside of the playoffs.

Just a gut feeling.

***
As has been mentioned a number of time throughout the season, the current market dynamics would mean that Lou should not receive a return that is anything less than what the NYI paid for Horvat.
 
Chapin Landvogt said:
Ye of little faith.

If Nelson is made available, hardly another center on the market will be more coveted and there'll be a good 5+ teams in the hunt who just need that impactful #2 center.

If all Lou would get back is a young NHLer like Berggren and a mid to late 1st, then that would likely be entirely on him. There'd be better pitches made.
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Can you point to a trade similar to the one you suggested that happened for a rental?

Also, McCann is available. Nelson is now #2.

Chapin Landvogt said:
Highly unusual return, I admit.

But I pointed out that I could see that type of thing coming from Yzerman thanks to the many assets in that organization and the desire to pep up what is looking like a very special 2nd half to this season after years outside of the playoffs.
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Just because a team has a bunch of assets doesn't mean they're going to overpay for everything. That would be criminally bad GMing. I'm a fan of 99.9% of your posts, but I think expecting a return like this for Nelson is going to be setting yourself up for a world of disappointment.
 
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LeapOnOver said:
These are the types of posts from you that drive me crazy. You say something like the above in bold and then treat it as an indisputable fact that drives the whole rest of your narrative saying there is an "obvious" path to take. I have one question for you: Can you predict the future? If you are sane, and the answer is no, then just admit that there's no obvious path to take, just the one you want them to take based on your opinion. Don't treat your opinion as fact....it's not.
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Well of course everything I write is just my opinion. And of course literally nothing that hasn't happened yet can't be stated as 100% absolute fact.

But that doesn't mean that based on past patterns you can't make obvious and concrete assumptions on what will happen going forward.

I mean you can't say to me right now that any plane scheduled to fly later today will land safely. On some level everyone knows this and yet...Millions of people fly each day. Why...? Because there's enough PAST EVIDENCE to say that air travel is an incredibly safe way to fly.

Similarly we have enough evidence based on Lou's past GM work to confidently say that we know how the next few years of Islander hockey will play out - If he's allowed to continue on as GM. Look at just the last 3 years:

  • 22-23: 53 points in 57 games
  • 23-24: 53 points in 57 games
  • 24-25: 53 points in 57 games

Without stating it as fact you really think it's beyond outlandish to think that if Lou is still GM that the Isles won't be in the same ballpark a year from now? Well I think it's crazy to ignore patterns we've seen already and think things will be different when there's literally no evidence to support that.

If you want change in on ice results then some form of ownership, management, coaching, and/or players must change. Well ownership isn't changing, but Lou has changed coaches and has made multiple trades and signings and yet...Still a fringe playoff team at best.

While again of course nothing in life is certain, if you don't think we can make a very confident guess as to how things will play out as long as Lou is GM, then I'd say that you're ignoring all the evidence right in front of you.

But hey...That's just like...My opinion man.
 
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impaaaaaact said:
Can you point to a trade similar to the one you suggested that happened for a rental?

Also, McCann is available. Nelson is now #2.
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Marian Hossa from Atlanta to Pittsburgh for Armstrong, Christensen, 2007 1st rounder Esposito, and a 2008 1st rounder?

Admittedly, Dupuis (who had been on a considerable downward trend in Atlanta) was thrown in there as a "extra" and then became real nice for Pittsburgh for several seasons, but I remember it being seen as Atlanta getting quite a shipment of promise for a top-flight Hossa who was having a bit of a down season in comparison to his prior seasons.

And, well, Hossa was a rental (one who paid off in spades!).

***
McCann has another year on his deal with a 5 MM cap hit. Yes, that could make him more attractive to some, or less attractive to others.

Still, he and an available Nelson pretty much top the list up the middle.

And again, there should be a good 5 interested parties. Might become more due to McCann not being a UFA.

impaaaaaact said:
Just because a team has a bunch of assets doesn't mean they're going to overpay for everything. That would be criminally bad GMing. I'm a fan of 99.9% of your posts, but I think expecting a return like this for Nelson is going to be setting yourself up for a world of disappointment.
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I'm expressing a gut feeling on the lengths to which a specific GM would go to win out a possible bidding war for a guy who'd theoretically fit like a plug without giving up a single body he doesn't already have in spades within his organization.

Nelson being moved for less than what's suggested in this unique situation (one in which Berggren and Buium are anything but B level players and Danielson has been underwhelming in his first pro season) would hardly bring about a world of disappointment. No worries.

I think my thought would have first become anywhere from unrealistic to outlandish if I had suggested Kasper, Sandin-Pellikka, and the picks as the return.
 
Chapin Landvogt said:
Marian Hossa from Atlanta to Pittsburgh for Armstrong, Christensen, 2007 1st rounder Esposito, and a 2008 1st rounder?

Admittedly, Dupuis (who had been on a considerable downward trend in Atlanta) was thrown in there as a "extra" and then became real nice for Pittsburgh for several seasons, but I remember it being seen as Atlanta getting quite a shipment of promise for a top-flight Hossa who was having a bit of a down season in comparison to his prior seasons.

And, well, Hossa was a rental (one who paid off in spades!).

***
McCann has another year on his deal with a 5 MM cap hit. Yes, that could make him more attractive to some, or less attractive to others.

Still, he and an available Nelson pretty much top the list up the middle.

And again, there should be a good 5 interested parties. Might become more due to McCann not being a UFA.



I'm expressing a gut feeling on the lengths to which a specific GM would go to win out a possible bidding war for a guy who'd theoretically fit like a plug without giving up a single body he doesn't already have in spades within his organization.

Nelson being moved for less than what's suggested in this unique situation (one in which Berggren and Buium are anything but B level players and Danielson has been underwhelming in his first pro season) would hardly bring about a world of disappointment. No worries.

I think my thought would have first become anywhere from unrealistic to outlandish if I had suggested Kasper, Sandin-Pellikka, and the picks as the return.
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I hear you - I respectfully disagree about the potential size of a package for Brock Nelson. If the closest thing we can think of is a trade 20 years ago for a 28 year old coming off of a 100 point season, I don't think we realistically have a comp for what you've laid out, but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised!

I think a closer comp for the Hossa trade would be the Guentzel trade last year... where they gave a second rounder, an NHL middle 6 winger, a couple of mid second round guys and a fourth round guy. That was a weird trade, and probably a not the best one for both teams
 
Interesting - the Isles House guys are saying they think Lou planted the Barzal injury timeline with Lebrun to take some heat off of himself in case he decides to add. They're basically saying he would catch a ton of heat if he decided to add with Barzal out for the year.

Sort of plays into Botta's take that Lebrun and Lou are very close and have a great working relationship, and the fact that we've literally never seen an insider break Isles news. Interesting...
 
If Lou is buying, then he’s buying to retain and advance the cause, aka Romanov type of deal. It’s a weak draft (every contender has traded their 1st already), so Lou may move it for a youngish signed forward.

If he wants to get a scorer for pennies on the dollar (and a malcontent that doesn’t play 5x5), he can probably get Laine from MON. He’s worn out his welcome there…

Dobson, good luck on getting a big payday…
 
periferal said:
Here's the problem...

The Isles roster is both broken and stuck. I'd so much rather admit that then keep trying to do the same thing over and over again. This team is nowhere near a Cup with Nelson at #2C...So we should bring him back again next year and be nowhere near a Cup again (and again, and again, and again)? When does it stop? Doing the same broken thing over and over makes so much less sense than trying to do something new - Even if new means it's going to get very ugly in the short-term.

At some point you have to stop trying to fix a pipe with duct tape and actually replace the pipe. Lou simply keeps adding non difference making players to this roster, and then signing bad contract after bad contract. Meanwhile the results on ice are stagnant at best. If we don't get rid of Lou guess where the 25-26 Islanders are going to be in the standings a year from now?

So I'd much rather (get rid of Lou), get young assets from Nelson/Palmieri, not have a good #2 center next year, and possibly be in a race to get McKenna, Belchetz, or Roobroeck...Then run everything back for thr 4th year in a row and know that we're a fringe playoff team at best (with less good assets in the organization).

If you want to win a Cup then I literally think it's insane to keep things as they are. I'd rather be the last place team in the league and have a chance at drafting the true future difference-makers at 18 then just missing the playoffs year after year as one of the older teams in the league (with basically no farm system to give hope for the future).

I legit don't know how anyone who wants to win a Cup could argue for Lou to come back and keep doing what he's been doing. If Trotz never came here this team might not have made the playoffs in the 6 years under Lou. We're seeing that bare out now when Lou doesn't have a Hall of Fame coach to overcome his repeat GM mistakes.
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💯 💯 💯
 
C'mon, you guys are slipping. McCann is available and no one has suggested a Barzal to SEA deal yet?! :laugh:
 
beach said:
I agree. I think that is exactly what this means.
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I think it means he's a goner. Wasserman is a huge agency, and his new agent represents McDavid and Matthews. He's looking to get PAID paid, which in this case probably means a 4 year deal to walk him to UFA so he can get paid again after the cap jump... not dissimilar to the Matthews deal. The absolute last thing we need Lou doing is giving him some crazy 9Mx4 deal, and honestly I bet he doesn't have any interest in doing that.

New team, new agent. Wipes the slate clean.
 
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I highly doubt Dobson is looking for an AM contract structure - that is a very unique structure done by an premier established player that’s ok with taking on a ton of risk to go short term and ride the market reset for his financial benefit vs 99% of other players that want term (ie security) all day long as soon as they can get it.

I give AM a ton of props for structuring his contract like that.

That contract ain’t for Dobson, he’s going to be arguing that he should be valued at a 70 point d-man, which is a big yikes.
 
impaaaaaact said:
I hear you - I respectfully disagree about the potential size of a package for Brock Nelson. If the closest thing we can think of is a trade 20 years ago for a 28 year old coming off of a 100 point season, I don't think we realistically have a comp for what you've laid out, but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised!

I think a closer comp for the Hossa trade would be the Guentzel trade last year... where they gave a second rounder, an NHL middle 6 winger, a couple of mid second round guys and a fourth round guy. That was a weird trade, and probably a not the best one for both teams
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I can follow this comparison of the Guentzel and Hossa moves. I quite liked what Pittsburgh was able to pick up there, but I admittedly had a thing for Ponomarev and Koivunen as unsuspecting midrange prospects, so getting a usable Bunting and a conditional first, much less the lesser Lucius and a late-rounder seemed like quite a haul.

And of course, Guentzel walked as a UFA - but without a Cup, despite being the least of Carolina's problems.

***
Other than being tall and lefty shots, I've never seen a reason to think of comparing Nelson and Tanner Jeannot, so I didn't throw that out as a comparison of any sort in response, even if Jeannot did get moved as an upcoming free agent (albeit RFA, not UFA).

That deal would however be a very recent example of a deal of considerable magnitude with respect to how many pieces were sent in one direction for a single player.

And considering the GM who moved all those pieces was once Yzerman's understudy...

One way or another, we'll be seeing what comes of all this within less than 4 weeks.

Richie Daggers Crime said:
You can see it because you want to.
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I can see you being the cleverest fellow around in whatever greater Atlanta district you're living in.
 
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doublechili said:
Looks like while McCann is listed as a C, he actually plays LW (posters say he's not really well-suited for C).
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yeah I've read that too since then. I remember him playing C for the penguins, but maybe it was the move to wing that unleashed him.

TBH, at 5M for the next two seasons... I'd love to get him. Gotta think Seattle will get a haul though, one that we'll be outbid for.
 
I have mentioned a few times that I would prefer to pay Dobson on a bridge deal to take him to UFA status. He would still get a nice raise. If he thinks he should be paid now double digits, this team needs to look to move on.

I watch a lot of western conference hockey due my time zone. It's a slow week and totally a fantasy perspective as I wonder what teams "could" look to acquire him. A few random thoughts: Probably picks or prospects to even out deals.

Byfield- LA already has Clarke and Doughty on the right side. Could see him breakout either on Kings or a new destination.
Berniers- I believe Montour is a rhd. I like the player
Karlsson- Ana may be in need of a rhd. LK is a horse and possibly a fit. I think Verbeek would be crazy to give him up, but maybe Jedi mind trick.
Lekkermaki +- Hronek is a rhd but maybe they look for an upgrade

Dallas could use a rhd. They have some fine young talent as does Columbus.


Bottom line Nelson and Palms need to be traded for assets.
 
Tahoeblue said:
I have mentioned a few times that I would prefer to pay Dobson on a bridge deal to take him to UFA status. He would still get a nice raise. If he thinks he should be paid now double digits, this team needs to look to move on.
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Could be mistaken but I think he's arbitration eligible. If that's the case I would imagine he'd take that route if he can't get what he wants on a long term deal. One year to raise his value and even if he doesn't, still high likelihood that he'd be the best UFA RD option the following year.
 
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