Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Torrey Redux]

Yep, if you have a shot at Hagens, you take him.

He's another Jack Hughes. Sure, there are a couple of other goodins in that top 5, and they could be a bit better, but you just do not skip out on a talent of this nature with the connections he has to this Island and the NY Islanders. Doesn't matter if he ends up "only" being a Logan Cooley or so.

It's a dream scenario that would mean the world to this franchise - which still has a big, shiny building that will long depend on having fannies in the seats!

Run with it...

(Theoretically speaking.)

Besides... Seeing the efforts of some of these guys out there, it seems like they've already embraced #DogginForHagens.

Truly hate this mindset.

There is a lot of talk about the "country club" around here and how comfortable the boys are being Islanders on LI. I don't know if it's a valid thing or not but your reasoning feeds into that mindset IMO. He's a local boy, let's get him. Now, Hagens may be the best guy and the best fit, I don't know, and if he is and we are in a position to get him then by all means, we should. But where he's from or local connection or any of that should not in any way be a deciding factor. And yes, it does matter if he "only" becomes a Logan Cooley if there is a Macklin Celebrini or Connor Bedard available. I don't see that in this draft necessarily, but that isn't the point. GET THE BEST GUY to help the team win. That is it. That is all. Nothing else matters.

 

[seabass45]

This is the wrong thought process. James Hagens is from LI. Great, it's a wonderful place to grow up. That is the degree to which we should care. There is only one question when the draft comes and it should have nothing to do with where someone is from and that question is; is he the best player available?

If they are in position to do it, it would a perfectly Islander thing to do to choose Hagens over a potentially better player and better fit simply because he is from LI. And will it matter anyway since whoever we draft will probably spend some time in the black hole that is Bridgeport and never be heard from again.

There's a long history on these boards of people clamoring for prospects and young players just because they grew up on Long Island. I don't think management feels the same way. We could have drafted Shane Pinto in 2019, wouldn't have been the worst pick in that spot. They didn't do it. Since then I've seen proposals involving JG Pageau going the other way and "bringing our boy home" and as you can imagine Ottawa fans did not have a lot of interest in this.

 

[Torrey Redux]

There's a long history on these boards of people clamoring for prospects and young players just because they grew up on Long Island. I don't think management feels the same way. We could have drafted Shane Pinto in 2019, wouldn't have been the worst pick in that spot. They didn't do it. Since then I've seen proposals involving JG Pageau going the other way and "bringing our boy home" and as you can imagine Ottawa fans did not have a lot of interest in this.

And we wonder why we are where we are.

 

[Chockey22]

I think the mindset should always be to take the best player available; if they happen to be local, great; if not, who cares. If it basically a tossup between two prospects, fine, take the local player; but at the outset it should be to get the best player you can.

 

[periferal]

Always hated those out there that cry out anything to the effect of, "If we do a rebuild that will sink the Isles' fanbase." Such a simpleton overreaction probably born more out of a personal desire to not want a see a rebuild.

Because I'm older than most of you and seen this fanbase go from absolute madhouse of support in the early 90's when Torrey put together that special team that made a run to the semifinals....To about 25 years of utter/embarrassment/NHL Siberia....Back to the absolute madhouse of support that was the Trotz-led semifinals runs a few years ago.

If you think selling off parts of this uninspiring group of vets (which would lead to high picks and adding top-end young talent) is going to sink this franchise when Pickett, Spano, Milbury, Wang, Snow, and the Gang of 4 didn't, then you're just not dealing in reality.

In fact I'd argue that Lou is killing this franchise so much more than a rebuild would. This team is going nowhere, getting worse, and Lou won't stop doubling-down on this same lackluster group of average talent.

And in the face of all that if you'd like to measure the "sink levels" of the Isles fanbase currently, I'd say it's pretty bad right now (and going to get worse the longer Malkin doesn't make a change)....

 

[leeroggy]

 

[MikeyMike01]

There's a long history on these boards of people clamoring for prospects and young players just because they grew up on Long Island. I don't think management feels the same way. We could have drafted Shane Pinto in 2019, wouldn't have been the worst pick in that spot. They didn't do it. Since then I've seen proposals involving JG Pageau going the other way and "bringing our boy home" and as you can imagine Ottawa fans did not have a lot of interest in this.

This is mostly because those are the players/prospects that fans have actually heard of. No one watches minor league hockey, or most of the other NHL team’s games.

 

[gordie43]

I always hated the “just do something” mentality. You need to have a plan you can’t just do.

At this point they have to just do something. I can’t believe they keep running out the same players getting the same results and nothing changes.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Always hated those out there that cry out anything to the effect of, "If we do a rebuild that will sink the Isles' fanbase." Such a simpleton overreaction probably born more out of a personal desire to not want a see a rebuild.

Because I'm older than most of you and seen this fanbase go from absolute madhouse of support in the early 90's when Torrey put together that special team that made a run to the semifinals....To about 25 years of utter/embarrassment/NHL Siberia....Back to the absolute madhouse of support that was the Trotz-led semifinals runs a few years ago.

If you think selling off parts of this uninspiring group of vets (which would lead to high picks and adding top-end young talent) is going to sink this franchise when Pickett, Spano, Milbury, Wang, Snow, and the Gang of 4 didn't, then you're just not dealing in reality.

In fact I'd argue that Lou is killing this franchise so much more than a rebuild would. This team is going nowhere, getting worse, and Lou won't stop doubling-down on this same lackluster group of average talent.

And in the face of all that if you'd like to measure the "sink levels" of the Isles fanbase currently, I'd say it's pretty bad right now (and going to get worse the longer Malkin doesn't make a change)....

Is it dumb, silly or naive of me to think that a few rebuilding, poor standings seasons can foster a youth movement of fans?

In the late 90's, the team was as bad as we've ever seen in the history of the NHL. This lead to "sinking of the Isles fanbase" asses in the seats, just like you said. But that was something my family was able to take advantage of. We had 4 season tickets due to the sinking prices, and honestly I don't think I would be as crazy as a fan if I wasn't exposed to that much live hockey as a kid.

MSG consistently sells out regardless of the on-ice product and we make fun of that fact because it is the 'corporate suits' who aren't actually fans. Well, the Isles fanbase needs homegrown crazy fans to survive, so maybe a rebuild is an opportunity for a family of 4 to be able to afford more games at UBS and create NYI lifers.

Maybe this is a soppy one off story, but there can be a silver lining.

 

[seabass45]

This is mostly because those are the players/prospects that fans have actually heard of. No one watches minor league hockey, or most of the other NHL team’s games.

People here have a bit more awareness of what's happening around the league.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Truly hate this mindset.

There is a lot of talk about the "country club" around here and how comfortable the boys are being Islanders on LI. I don't know if it's a valid thing or not but your reasoning feeds into that mindset IMO. He's a local boy, let's get him. Now, Hagens may be the best guy and the best fit, I don't know, and if he is and we are in a position to get him then by all means, we should. But where he's from or local connection or any of that should not in any way be a deciding factor. And yes, it does matter if he "only" becomes a Logan Cooley if there is a Macklin Celebrini or Connor Bedard available. I don't see that in this draft necessarily, but that isn't the point. GET THE BEST GUY to help the team win. That is it. That is all. Nothing else matters.

I understand this. Completely.

I happen to think that Cooley is gonna be an 80-point player in this league. I also think Hughes (who I'd take over i.e. Barzal every day of the week and twice on Sunday) represents the height of anyone coming out of this draft. Don't see anyone this year turning into something more than he is.

Maybe. Time will tell.

But Hagens isn't just some player coming from Long Island. He's likely the best prospect Long Island has ever had, with the most clear-cut certainty at potentially being a face-of-the-franchise athlete and top 10 player in the league at his peak.

And the seperation between Hagens, Misa, Schaefer, and Martone, much less any of the others who may sneak into the conversation when everything gets overanalyzed after the U18 Worlds and CHL playoffs, is not as great as the seperation between Celebrini/Bedard and Cooley, so no worries there.

Health allowing, Hagens is going to be a dandy of an impact player in this league for many years. Could be the best in this draft class.

So, to make the point simpler:
There's no-one in this draft who is so much of a clear-cut better choice than Hagens that it would make it worth the Isles taking THAT guy over Hagens and the fairy tale story+importance he'd bring to this franchise if they have the chance.

Whether anyone thinks the ties to the team and Island is a negative or not.

Ownership and management would simply have to take that factor - which has implications in selling tickets WHILE making the team a contender moving forward - into account. Can't be left out of the equation.

All those other guys could be better down the road, but none are foreseeably gonna end up being that to any degree of certainty. It's a pretty strong, even-keeled top 4/5 players at the top of this draft.

If this team is in a position to take Hagens at the draft, it must be done.

It's an opportunity that cannot go unpassed.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I understand this. Completely.

The hate is unfounded though.

Despite my mentioning of Hagens "even" possibly only panning out as "Logan Cooley" to make the point I see you don't like (which no-one would know in advance - and mind you, I wrote that he's another Jack Hughes first and recently in another post. That's the projection I see just now), the seperation between Hagens, Misa, Schaefer, and Martone, much less any of the others who may sneak into the conversation when everything gets overanalyzed after the U18 Worlds and CHL playoffs, is not as great as the seperation between Celebrini/Bedard and Cooley, so no worries.

Health allowing, Hagens is going to be a dandy of an impact player in this league for many years. Could be the best in this draft class.

So, to make the point simpler:
There's no-one in this draft who is so clear-cut better than Hagens that it would make it worth the Isles taking THAT guy over Hagens and the fairy tale story+importance he'd bring to this franchise if they have the chance.

Whether anyone thinks the ties to the team and Island is a negative or not.

All those other guys could be better down the road, but none are foreseeably gonna end up being that to any degree of certainty. It's a pretty strong, even keel top 4/5 players at the top of this draft.

You are commenting on the micro of this years draft and my comments were about the macro of drafting in general. You may well be right in everything you say about this draft class and the relative differences between the players, or lack thereof. That is the general consensus out there. My point remains however; where a player is from should not make any difference. The shine of a player being a local product will quickly wear off if the team that drafts him gets it wrong and/or one of the other draftees that might have been available to that team far surpasses the other in terms of production. In short, keep the local charm blinders off and make the best hockey decision.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

• Dennis Bernstein suggested Kyle Palmieri as a potential target for Los Angeles on yesterday’s edition of “The Latest.” He has a $5M cap hit, so it would take both retention from the Islanders and possibly another club to make his contract fit for the Kings, but that would be an interesting play for Rob Blake.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

You are commenting on the micro of this years draft and my comments were about the macro of drafting in general. You may well be right in everything you say about this draft class and the relative differences between the players, or lack thereof. That is the general consensus out there. My point remains however; where a player is from should not make any difference. The shine of a player being a local product will quickly wear off if the team that drafts him gets it wrong and/or one of the other draftees that might have been available to that team far surpasses the other in terms of production. In short, keep the local charm blinders off and make the best hockey decision.

I agree.

I realized this and had altered my post a few minutes ago with the hope of doing so before anyone could respond.

And because my alterations are a bit more indicative of what I want to be saying.

 

[miscs75]

• Dennis Bernstein suggested Kyle Palmieri as a potential target for Los Angeles on yesterday’s edition of “The Latest.” He has a $5M cap hit, so it would take both retention from the Islanders and possibly another club to make his contract fit for the Kings, but that would be an interesting play for Rob Blake.

What are they actually offering for him?