Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[impaaaaaact]

Was my biggest concern coming into the year and both have gotten worse. Way too over committed to both. 1 absolutely has to go this offseason. I think as fans we’d prefer Pelech out but I think Pulock is more appealing to the league at large.

Pelech could end up on Rebids island if he has one more injury while Lou is still here. I agree, Pulock would be easier to move. If we lose them both this offseason it'll be kind of like the bizarro Leddy/Boychuk free agency

 

[xECK29x]

Before you know it, the argument will be he needs a different defensive partner, coach, and forwards…hmm.

For all his offense, he’s a massive trade off defensively and a lot of times at the wrong time in a game. I don’t think that’s being nitpicked or short viewed, it’s 2 plus years of the same scenario. It’s only masked bc he scored 70 points (once).

He needs another Andy Greene types steady two way D who defends well and blocks shots but can also move the puck and skate.

 

[MJF]

Setting aside the merits of such a proposed trade for a moment, can we please stop discussing Dobson as though he is recently graduated prospect who just entered the league. He is 350+ games into his NHL career and who he is as a player, while perhaps not fully formed, is coming into view; he's an offensively gifted talent and a butter-soft defensive liability.

You can't teach offense. If Dobson has that gift you don't trade him now, you find someone who can teach him NHL defense, not Tomy Albelin and Patrick Roy.

Islanders fans for years have been regretting trading Devon Toews. We shouldn't compound it by trading the guy who made Toews expendable without giving him a fighting chance with a coaching staff that values D zone competence, ie; how to box out around the crease, when to leave your position and when not to chase, communication with your teammates, how not to screen your goalie.

What plays in our favor this summer is that Dobson is playing himself down from a Fox contract to a Pulock contract.

Before you know it, the argument will be he needs a different defensive partner, coach, and forwards…hmm.

And those things are going to come.

Is it any coincidence Dobson's best years came during the remnants of Barry Trotz's staff and didn't go sour until St Patrick got here?

 

[On Edge]

You can't teach offense. If Dobson has that gift you don't trade him now, you find someone who can teach him NHL defense, not Tomy Albelin and Patrick Roy.

Islanders fans for years have been regretting trading Devon Toews. We shouldn't compound it by trading the guy who made Toews expendable without giving him a fighting chance with a coaching staff that values D zone competence, ie; how to box out around the crease, when to leave your position and when not to chase, communication with your teammates, how not to screen your goalie.

What plays in our favor this summer is that Dobson is playing himself down from a Fox contract to a Pulock contract.


And those things are going to come.

Is it any coincidence Dobson's best years came during the remnants of Barry Trotz's staff and didn't go sour until St Patrick got here?

Really well said. I have been on the “ship him out” group but your post contributed to me reconsidering. The only challenge is what to pay this guy. If he is asking for $8m at this point it may be time for a change. I don’t know what the right number would be but maybe a 2-3 short term giving him option for FA at a young age while building his overall game up. $5-6m sound right x 3?

 

[MJF]

Really well said. I have been on the “ship him out” group but your post contributed to me reconsidering. The only challenge is what to pay this guy. If he is asking for $8m at this point it may be time for a change. I don’t know what the right number would be but maybe a 2-3 short term giving him option for FA at a young age while building his overall game up. $5-6m sound right x 3?

Agreed about Dobson’s upcoming contract. He should be paid what Pulock is getting.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Really well said. I have been on the “ship him out” group but your post contributed to me reconsidering. The only challenge is what to pay this guy. If he is asking for $8m at this point it may be time for a change. I don’t know what the right number would be but maybe a 2-3 short term giving him option for FA at a young age while building his overall game up. $5-6m sound right x 3?

Walking him to FA could be scary. Look at what’s happening with Necas right now

 

[periferal]

I'm very skeptical about labeling drafts weak or strong. Just look at the last 5 drafts on Hockeydb.com and tell me about the value of low 1st round picks that we might get for Nelson or Palms.

I'd rather do the Giroux for Tippett type deals. Those last 5 drafts were not very productive for most teams.

Again...We need to stop thinking about 1st round picks as just 1st round picks. It's just an asset - No different than a player (or cap space).

Once you have a 1st you can then flip it again for young talent...But having multiple 1sts from Nelson/Palmieri trades is light years better than resigning them.

We need options, and signing declining players into the mid/late 30's not only takes options away, but is 100% counterproductive if you're trying to get this organization back to Cup contention.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m still following along, you know me - I’m complain and feign my disinterest but I’m still watching.

But, I lurk here, I haven’t been very active on Twitter/X - I have lots of adult stuff taking up all the hockey time in my life these days LOL

Not to mention - the cost to attend games, the travel time to and from - all limit what I do in person these days.

It’s a lot when things aren’t strong on the ice.

I still bleed blue and orange. Always.

I hear you, but the point is...If this team was younger, more exciting, and gave you more hope you'd prioritize your interest in them, follow them more, and be more excited overall.

Right now this is just a dying roster on the road to nowhere good. That would lead any fan to lost interest.

 

[periferal]

I think that's the tentative number. I wouldn't have a link because it's a podcast but Friedman mentions the cap could jump to 97 because of the growth and the players paying back their money they owe.

Great. Now Lou will offer Nelson/Palmieri that much more.

 

[SI]

lol we aren’t getting Ohgren for Palmieri. This is like 5 trades… fantasy land

Palmieri is getting traded -

Pelech could be traded in the offseason once his contract moves to m-NTC.

Ohgren was just an example of a cost controlled player.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Palmieri is getting traded -

Pelech could be traded in the offseason once his contract moves to m-NTC.

Ohgren was just an example of a cost controlled player.

he’s getting traded but his value is closer to a second and a third than a former first rounder who will probably be a full time NHLer next season. I’d be shocked if Varly waives his NMC too.

As it stands now I think the spots vacated by Nelson and Palmieri will be filled internally. Eiserman, Nelson, Jefferies, Finley… Maggio and dufour I guess will get a crack at them too. My guess is they go to Jefferies and Nelson but who knows.

 

[BarzyClub]

“Dobson hasn’t been good bc he’s worried about making the Four Nations team” is a new one.

It’s a thing. Young players put a lot of pressure on themselves to make these rosters and it can become a distraction.

Before the Dec 4 rosters were announced Dobson had 11 pts in 26 games . After that , he’s gone 9 pts in 13 GP. Pretty much the same points in half the games.

Bouchard in Edmonton was in the same situation .

 

[seabass45]

It’s a thing. Young players put a lot of pressure on themselves to make these rosters and it can become a distraction.

Before the Dec 4 rosters were announced Dobson had 11 pts in 26 games . After that , he’s gone 9 pts in 13 GP. Pretty much the same points in half the games.

Bouchard in Edmonton was in the same situation .

You're trying to make the case that this is a half-season issue but you also said he was on a great pace last year, and the implication to that statement is that he didn't finish the season as well as he started. Which is true, he fell off and we're now approaching a full year of wondering how good he could be. And now you're saying that he's in his head because he was trying to make a team where there were one or two open spots at most. Pietrangelo was a lock, Parayko a near-lock. And so he's torpedoing his long-term value, a chance at an eight year contract for at least 8 mil per year, for *that*? No.

I said this elsewhere, there's an easier case to be made that he's just struggling with Roy. He has different demands of his players, some have excelled with him and others have struggled. The big question is if Dobson can figure it out. Maybe Roy has to make adjustments himself.

 

[periferal]

Palmieri is getting traded -

I pray that you are right, but I just don't know how you could say Palmeiri is being traded (and not resigned) with such "matter of fact" confidence. Lou has literally never sold unless FORCED to (cap/expansion draft), so if he sells anyone before the deadline it would be his first time doing so with the Isles.

I'm not putting a bet on anyone doing something when their record of behavior shows they've only done the exact opposite.

 

[Torrey Redux]

You can't teach offense. If Dobson has that gift you don't trade him now, you find someone who can teach him NHL defense, not Tomy Albelin and Patrick Roy.

Islanders fans for years have been regretting trading Devon Toews. We shouldn't compound it by trading the guy who made Toews expendable without giving him a fighting chance with a coaching staff that values D zone competence, ie; how to box out around the crease, when to leave your position and when not to chase, communication with your teammates, how not to screen your goalie.

What plays in our favor this summer is that Dobson is playing himself down from a Fox contract to a Pulock contract.


And those things are going to come.

Is it any coincidence Dobson's best years came during the remnants of Barry Trotz's staff and didn't go sour until St Patrick got here?

I'm not necessarily on the ship him out train, though I wouldn't be against it if the right value came back. I just want people to stop treating him like he is still a rookie. Dobson's basic MO won't change at this point but, as you note, those things that he is weak at can improve with the right coaching and must improve to at least minimal NHL competence for him be an integral piece. And, of course, he must have the right partner.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Great. Now Lou will offer Nelson/Palmieri that much more.

In all seriousness, I know we've talked about Lou selling/not selling before but writing was on the wall when he didn't extend them in the offseason.

 

[Glory Days]

In all seriousness, I know we've talked about Lou selling/not selling before but writing was on the wall when he didn't extend them in the offseason.

I think not extending Nelson and Palms last off season was more about the Isles cap situation than his belief in those players.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I think not extending Nelson and Palms last off season was more about the Isles cap situation than his belief in those players.

Idk, cap was going up anyway.

 

[SI90]

What do we have to lose? I’d take a shot

 

[The Real JT]

What do we have to lose? I’d take a shot

How ironic is it that just a couple of months ago there were proposals on this board to trade our trash for someone else’s trash (Wahlstrom for Kaliyev).

Now they’ve both been waived. I guess that was fair value after all.

 

[Glorydays22]

What do we have to lose? I’d take a shot

We should be all over this....low risk, high reward. Let Roy work with him.

 

[SI90]

The vatrano extension is going to open up the flood gates for teams to start deferred money deals.

His cap his is lower than his actually value. Teams will now look to do this to lower cap hits.

 

[duster19]

In all seriousness, I know we've talked about Lou selling/not selling before but writing was on the wall when he didn't extend them in the offseason.

I don’t think so at all. Mayfield. Engvall. Both signed at the UFA wire or after it.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I don’t think so at all. Mayfield. Engvall. Both signed at the UFA wire or after it.

I mean that's true too, we've seen both.

 

[MJF]

What do we have to lose? I’d take a shot

Pass. The guy already can’t skate and is coming off an injury that caused him to miss camp. Sign him in the offseason if you feel strongly about him. I’m sure he’ll be available.

As an aside, isn’t Kaliyev from NYC?

 

[Kevin27NYI]

The vatrano extension is going to open up the flood gates for teams to start deferred money deals.

His cap his is lower than his actually value. Teams will now look to do this to lower cap hits.

Hope we take advantage too.