Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Chardo]

What good is collecting picks when your drafting sucks?

 

[The Real JT]

Here is a comparison for you NFL fans.

Bill Belichek won 6 Super Bowls as a head coach/defacto GM and has a lifetime record of 266-121 with the Pats. Lou has been here 7 years already with a far worse record as an Isles GM and 0 Cups in case you didn’t remember.

Somehow Belichek got fired because his organization believes in accountability.

Well, Mr. Malkin?

 

[Chardo]

Here is a comparison for you NFL fans.

Bill Belichek won 6 Super Bowls as a head coach/defacto GM and has a lifetime record of 266-121 with the Pats. Lou has been here 7 years already with a far worse record as an Isles GM and 0 Cups in case you didn’t remember.

Somehow Belichek got fired because his organization believes in accountability.

Well, Mr. Malkin?

If Lou had Tom Brady...

 

[The Real JT]

If Lou had Tom Brady...

Fair point though Belichek was the defacto GM for the Pats and assembled a great surrounding cast for Brady for many years.

Belichek loved his vets but also consistently cut bait on them when they outlived their usefulness on his roster. Lou has never ever done that.

 

[leeroggy]

Fair point though Belichek was the defacto GM for the Pats and assembled a great surrounding cast for Brady for many years.

Belichek loved his vets but also consistently cut bait on them when they outlived their usefulness on his roster. Lou has never ever done that.

To be more accurate, Belichick would trade or cut them if their salary demands were too high, he didn't wait until they outlived their usefulness because a number of them were still productive with other teams. He was like a value investor in the stock market.

 

[The Real JT]

To be more accurate, Belichick would trade or cut them if their salary demands were too high, he didn't wait until they outlived their usefulness because a number of them were still productive with other teams. He was like a value investor in the stock market.

That’s also a fair point. So you’re saying that Belichek operated like an astute GM? Hmm, regardless of our baseline level of talent, it’s painfully obvious that we don’t see that side of Lou.

 

[leeroggy]

That’s also a fair point. So you’re saying that Belichek operated like an astute GM? Hmm, regardless of our baseline level of talent, it’s painfully obvious that we don’t see that side of Lou.

BB didn't always make the right choices, some of those he dumped turned out to be worth what they wanted and performed to it. He was kind of the opposite to Lou with being early to dump, while Lou was buy and hold. Belichick was more like Cramer and took profits too quickly at times. In the later years, the biggest complaint about BB was dumping too soon.

 

[Big L]

And BBs drafting was overall not good.

 

[periferal]

Do people who are projecting Nelson to go for a first a good prospect still think that after his career-worst slump? Asking in good faith.

What difference does it make when Lou is going to pay him like he would.

What good is collecting picks when your drafting sucks?

That's the #1 reason that Lou needs to go and why the scouting department needs to be augmented/overhauled.

But...Collecting picks and getting lucky by winning the lottery in a year where there is a can't miss prospect is still worlds better than continuing on a path of overpaying average talent into their late 30's and going nowhere but cap hell.

 

[periferal]

If Lou had Tom Brady...

Lou did have "Tom Brady."


His name was Barry Trotz.

 

[Taswell]

Up to an 8.5% chance of the first overall pick. Time to just go whole hog on a retool.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

The more games I watch the more I have to be thinking if you’re a GM out there you’d rather have Lee or Pageau over Nelson or Palmieri.

I really think all four should go. I want to be positive. I think it would be a great return but also really help change the team dynamic and move on from the 18-22 era.

 

[The Real JT]

In a vacuum, I’m not averse to losing both Nelson and Pageau but that leaves us in an awful place regarding our center position. McLean is clearly not the answer so take him out of the equation.

Assuming we lose those other two players then I would assume Barzal is moving back to center and we would need an NHL Center to be traded to us in return. I’m not sure that scenario is realistic by this year’s TDL though I could see Pageau getting traded in the off-season as long as at some point we get a center in return.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I am jealous of your indifference. Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting there.

Well done sir.

In truth, I'm disappointed in myself. I'm a better fan than this. I have really fond memories of going to and watching games during the holidays but even on free nights I'm just not that interested.

There is a potential silver lining of the season - being able to see what we have in some of the call-ups once Lou comes out of his cage, admits defeat and looks to the future in trading the pending UFA's.

Other than that, I'm not tuning in any time soon. (well, maybe during the doldrums of Jan/Feb when my S.A.D kicks into high gear)

 

[periferal]

In a vacuum, I’m not averse to losing both Nelson and Pageau but that leaves us in an awful place regarding our center position.

You realize that Hagens is a center right?

 

[JRD76]

You realize that Hagens is a center right?

hagens-eiserman future 1st line. Just have to find them another winger . I think Nelson and Holmstrom would be good together

 

[impaaaaaact]

Honestly a top 5 pick would be huge. Any of Hagens, Misa, Martone, McQueen or one of the Swedes would be huge for us. Add in hopefully another first and another 2 seconds after some deadline trades and it should go a long long way to rebuilding the pipeline.

 

[The Real JT]

In truth, I'm disappointed in myself. I'm a better fan than this. I have really fond memories of going to and watching games during the holidays but even on free nights I'm just not that interested.

There is a potential silver lining of the season - being able to see what we have in some of the call-ups once Lou comes out of his cage, admits defeat and looks to the future in trading the pending UFA's.

Other than that, I'm not tuning in any time soon. (well, maybe during the doldrums of Jan/Feb when my S.A.D kicks into high gear)

Doubling down on the S.A.D.

That’s a bold move. Could backfire.

 

[Konk]

Honestly a top 5 pick would be huge. Any of Hagens, Misa, Martone, McQueen or one of the Swedes would be huge for us. Add in hopefully another first and another 2 seconds after some deadline trades and it should go a long long way to rebuilding the pipeline.

Desnoyers will end up there instead of McQueen and honestly, even Schaefer would be great because it's not as if we have any D men of his caliber.

 

[MJF]

Honestly a top 5 pick would be huge. Any of Hagens, Misa, Martone, McQueen or one of the Swedes would be huge for us. Add in hopefully another first and another 2 seconds after some deadline trades and it should go a long long way to rebuilding the pipeline.

Is the first round of the 2025 draft considered to be Hagens, then the next 5, then a dropoff after the 6th pick?

 

[Konk]

Is the first round of the 2025 draft considered to be Hagens, then the next 5, then a dropoff after the 6th pick?

There are some Canadians that would have you believe it's a 4 horse race between Schaefer, Hagens, Martone, and Misa. That said, I believe it's a two horse race between Hagens and Schaefer.

It hasn't really been clear-cut, but like in years past, the WJCs is helping to bring the picture into focus a bit.

 

[MJF]

There are some Canadians that would have you believe it's a 4 horse race between Schaefer, Hagens, Martone, and Misa. That said, I believe it's a two horse race between Hagens and Schaefer.

It hasn't really been clear-cut, but like in years past, the WJCs is helping to bring the picture into focus a bit.

Would you consider the 1st round to be a top 6, then a dropoff?

 

[Konk]

Would you consider the 1st round to be a top 6, then a dropoff?

I haven't seen enough of the players to give you a full spectrum, but I believe it's a top 2, then a drop. I would put Misa and Martone in that 2nd tier, then there's a group of 5 - Desnoyers, Eklund, Frondell, McQueen, and Smith. I would say there's a drop after that group and players like Lakovic, Spence, Mrtka, Bear, Carbonneau, and perhaps one or two others.

After that it's difficult for me to say, but there's a lot of interesting players ranked deeper into the 1st round like Brady Martin, Braeden Cootes, Blake Fiddler, guys in the 2nd round like Eric Nilson (who might rise into the 1st), Shane Vansaghi, Henry Brzustewicz, Haoxi Wang, Zachary Morin, etc. Bruno Osmanis may have played his way into the 2nd round, Lewandowski looked interesting as a potential 3rd rounder for Germany, etc.

It seems like an average draft year, at least at this point, minus the clear cut #1 overall franchise type player. Hagens or Schaefer may be a notch below the Celebrini and Bedard level 1st overalls we've seen the past couple of years.

 

[leeroggy]

Would you consider the 1st round to be a top 6, then a dropoff?

I'm very skeptical about labeling drafts weak or strong. Just look at the last 5 drafts on Hockeydb.com and tell me about the value of low 1st round picks that we might get for Nelson or Palms.

I'd rather do the Giroux for Tippett type deals. Those last 5 drafts were not very productive for most teams.

 

[Konk]

I'm very skeptical about labeling drafts weak or strong. Just look at the last 5 drafts on Hockeydb.com and tell me about the value of low 1st round picks that we might get for Nelson or Palms.

I'd rather do the Giroux for Tippett type deals. Those last 5 drafts were not very productive for most teams.

I think it's interesting to guage the quality of the draft at three different points - one, leading up to and at the time of the draft, two - 2-5 years post draft, when players start to make an impact at the NHL level, then three, 10-20 years later once careers have wrapped up.

It's interesting the contrast and how perception at the time of the draft may change with the passing of time.

2003 was an amazing year for example, leading up to, at the time of the draft, 2-5 years later, and now 20 years later. The eligibility rule change, the quality and depth of the class, it was thought to be special back then and has been proven to be correct over time. Still pisses me off we ended up with one of the only busts in Nilsson though.