Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Rehabguy]

Are you f***ing kidding me....Pittsburgh gets Philip Tomasino for a Freaking 4th rounder? This is why Lou needs to be punched, and dropped kicked out the door immediately. He and Trotz have a relationship and we can't get a deal like this for a young kid with talent who hasn't really gotten a fair chance...what a joke mgmt is...

We absolutely do need players like this. Even if we gave away a 3rd rounder this team needs as much offensive help from any position to give this team a spark. If anything this team needs another explosive skater like Tomasino. This was his scouting report:

He’s a fearless puck-carrier, willing to pay the price to take the puck to the high-danger parts of the offensive zone. His hands are elite
—EPrinkside.com 2019

Tomasino is a swiss-army knife forward whose versatility made him effective.
—Hockeyprospect.com 2019

His explosive skating style is highlighted by a lightning-quick first step and high-end foot speed
—Future Considerations 2019

He is a highly athletic center who is a plus skater, with good vision and a strong wrist shot
—McKeen's Hockey 2019

dynamic offensive talent … creates offence with hard work … very consistent … jumps in and out of holes to create chances

He's only 23 and he had a much better first 3 years in the NHL than any young Islander forward today. It is no surprise his numbers began to suffer once Trotz took over as GM. He's not Trotz kind of player- probably too much like Barzal. Since Trotz took over as GM he has given up 5 first rounders including: Tolvanen, Tomasino, Fabbro, Kevin Fiala and Askarov. They should have nabbed this kid at any reasonable cost once they had the chance as Trotz has no idea what he's doing with the Preds. He's horrible at managing young talent that don't fit into his mold. My understanding is that he did not work hard enough to fit the Predator identity and "structure". Sound familiar? Also he's pretty bad at getting returns for first round picks. In exchange for the Predators' 2019 first-round pick and the Vegas Golden Knights' 2017 first-round pick, respectively, he accepted a fourth-round pick and an undrafted ECHL forward.

Lou let this one get away. Probably asleep at the wheel. Or maybe he really did just fire Trotz because he thought he sucked and there is no relationship there to speak of and Trotz feels he owes the guy no favors.

 

[Chockey22]

Disagree, they all came to HF Isles when the trade was made and said that we were going to love him. He's been very good for the Isles and have always been impressed by his play and effort. I never find myself questioning his decisions on the ice as compared to most of the others.

He's would also be the Captain pick if Lee does not re-sign a team friendly deal when he's up at the end of 2026.

Add in the fact that he's only being paid $8.5mm AAV with the cap expected to rise significantly...Horvat stays on LI.

I appreciate this alternative take on Horvat, and am happy to agree to disagree - but I am honestly surprised that he is let off the hook while Barzal takes so much heat. He has no points in the last five games, and is on pace for under 20 goals. He routinely misses grade A scoring chances. Yes, he plays hard, wins more draws than he loses, and doesn't make as many mistakes as others, but that is not worth 8.5. even with a rising cap.

I am surrounded by Canucks fans where I live, and can tell you without a doubt most fans were fine with him being traded, and ecstatic when they saw the contract price and term.

I completely agree that Horvat stays; Lou wouldn't walk back his signature pick up and with his contract would probably not return much of value.

 

[Rehabguy]

I appreciate this alternative take on Horvat, and am happy to agree to disagree - but I am honestly surprised that he is let off the hook while Barzal takes so much heat. He has no points in the last five games, and is on pace for under 20 goals. He routinely misses grade A scoring chances. Yes, he plays hard, wins more draws than he loses, and doesn't make as many mistakes as others, but that is not worth 8.5. even with a rising cap.

I am surrounded by Canucks fans where I live, and can tell you without a doubt most fans were fine with him being traded, and ecstatic when they saw the contract price and term.

I completely agree that Horvat stays; Lou wouldn't walk back his signature pick up and with his contract would probably not return much of value.

I like Horvat's work ethic and he plays an intelligent game but make no mistake about it, Barzal is the reason he has been so successful scoring goals for the Islanders. He's not much of a threat on his own without someone like Barzal to feed him.

 

[SI]

IMHO, this is a situation where Lou should let the team bottom out. Do nothing until the TDL and then sell off Nelson, Palmieri and possibly Lee and Pageau, as well as Pulock or Pelech. Lou will have the excuse of long term injuries to Barzal, Duclair, Reilly and Pelech to lean on to keep the pressure off him. Letting the Isles bottom out and become sellers will allow us to get assets that will increase the organization's depth and get some younger legs in the lineup

IMO, it cannot be a full-fire sale - you want to be able to compete next year.

Lee and Pageau would be interesting pieces - more so Pageau, who I believe would be enticing for an acquiring team, especially if the Isles were to retain 50% and get a significant piece in return.

To trade JGP just to dump the salary - I am not a fan of it.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I appreciate this alternative take on Horvat, and am happy to agree to disagree - but I am honestly surprised that he is let off the hook while Barzal takes so much heat. He has no points in the last five games, and is on pace for under 20 goals. He routinely misses grade A scoring chances. Yes, he plays hard, wins more draws than he loses, and doesn't make as many mistakes as others, but that is not worth 8.5. even with a rising cap.

I am surrounded by Canucks fans where I live, and can tell you without a doubt most fans were fine with him being traded, and ecstatic when they saw the contract price and term.

I completely agree that Horvat stays; Lou wouldn't walk back his signature pick up and with his contract would probably not return much of value.

I can't argue with that. A lot of the blame for lack of scoring should lay at his feet. Especially since he carries the 2nd highest cap hit and was brought in to be a goal scorer. Hell, we see Palms and Lee continue scoring in the absence of Barzal.

But compared to Palms who is shooting 18.2%, Horvat is at 7.7% which is 3% lower than his career low and 6% off his career average. I see his lack of producing a feature of the team being abhorrent on the PP and simply just a slump. After not being able to lift the puck over Lyon's right shoulder after a great feed from JGP, you could see it is getting to him.

I'm more confident in Horvat progressing more to his mean, than I do in Barzal in becoming a shoot-first player that we desperately wish him to be because we can see him do it sometimes. By the nature of being a puck-carrier, I think Barzal gets more heat because he is more susceptible to bad passes, bad turnovers, more giveaways on paper.

Maybe the Nucks fans flocking to HF Isles at the time of the trade were just being nice lol.

 

[Tahoeblue]

I can understand the frustration and disappointment with this team so far. This team has certainly many flaws and there are numerous players who are playing sub par. I would love to see Lou bring up say Karlstrom and Pinho and reward their good play. Other posters probably have a better perspective on their progress as I just stat watch mostly. This could reinforce accountability even down at the farm and wake up some in the bigs.

The Isles did dress 3 AHL d men last night and certainly the injuries are a concern. I for one hope they reunite the first line when they return. The most troubling thing is that Duclair's game is built on speed and we know he has a groin issue. Barzal has an upper body injury and he already drives me crazy because he doesn't shoot enough.

The next month will be telling and it probably points to selling off assets, salary, term and resetting in some form.

 

[Chockey22]

I can't argue with that. A lot of the blame for lack of scoring should lay at his feet. Especially since he carries the 2nd highest cap hit and was brought in to be a goal scorer. Hell, we see Palms and Lee continue scoring in the absence of Barzal.

But compared to Palms who is shooting 18.2%, Horvat is at 7.7% which is 3% lower than his career low and 6% off his career average. I see his lack of producing a feature of the team being abhorrent on the PP and simply just a slump. After not being able to lift the puck over Lyon's right shoulder after a great feed from JGP, you could see it is getting to him.

I'm more confident in Horvat progressing more to his mean, than I do in Barzal in becoming a shoot-first player that we desperately wish him to be because we can see him do it sometimes. By the nature of being a puck-carrier, I think Barzal gets more heat because he is more susceptible to bad passes, bad turnovers, more giveaways on paper.

Maybe the Nucks fans flocking to HF Isles at the time of the trade were just being nice lol.

Canuck fans generally are quite nice (when they're not rioting after losing in the SCF), and are a lot like Isles fans in that they are pretty critical of their team. Except when the Canucks are good, then their fans are insufferable - fortunately that is not very often.

And I agree with the frustration with Barzal too - if it had been Barzal receiving that sweet feed from JGP last night, he probably would have looked to pass.

 

[benedictTavares]

I haven't been keeping up as much as I use to. Are we ready to blow this roster up yet? Is that even possible or are we going to end up in Lou contract hell for the next five years stocking draft picks.

 

[xECK29x]

We absolutely do need players like this. Even if we gave away a 3rd rounder this team needs as much offensive help from any position to give this team a spark. If anything this team needs another explosive skater like Tomasino. This was his scouting report:







He's only 23 and he had a much better first 3 years in the NHL than any young Islander forward today. It is no surprise his numbers began to suffer once Trotz took over as GM. He's not Trotz kind of player- probably too much like Barzal. Since Trotz took over as GM he has given up 5 first rounders including: Tolvanen, Tomasino, Fabbro, Kevin Fiala and Askarov. They should have nabbed this kid at any reasonable cost once they had the chance as Trotz has no idea what he's doing with the Preds. He's horrible at managing young talent that don't fit into his mold. My understanding is that he did not work hard enough to fit the Predator identity and "structure". Sound familiar? Also he's pretty bad at getting returns for first round picks. In exchange for the Predators' 2019 first-round pick and the Vegas Golden Knights' 2017 first-round pick, respectively, he accepted a fourth-round pick and an undrafted ECHL forward.

Lou let this one get away. Probably asleep at the wheel. Or maybe he really did just fire Trotz because he thought he sucked and there is no relationship there to speak of and Trotz feels he owes the guy no favors.

Those snippets are draft hype quotes from 2019, its not the player he is, he is similar to Wahlstrom from fans who actually watch him play.

 

[periferal]

IMO, it cannot be a full-fire sale - you want to be able to compete next year.

Compete for what? 11th place in the east?

If you don't beieve in a rebuild that's cool, but doing a "half fire sale" is a joke. Either sell whatever picks/prospects you have and go for a Cup now...Or f***ing tear it all down and rebuild this team right. Whatever you do just don't half-ass it or you're going to wind up nowhere good.

 

[Glory Days]

The Isles don’t have enough cap room to start trading picks for players. Also if Lou uses picks to get rid of players he likely then won’t have the picks to acquire replacements. Lou could start making hockey trades but he will need to find a willing partner. Likely his only real option is to wait for contracts to expire and keep the picks to draft. Lou may have backed himself into a corner with only one way out.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

The Isles don’t have enough cap room to start trading picks for players. Also if Lou uses picks to get rid of players he likely then won’t have the picks to acquire replacements. Lou could start making hockey trades but he will need to find a willing partner. Likely his only real option is to wait for contracts to expire and keep the picks to draft. Lou may have backed himself into a corner with only one way out.

I think they can get decent return for Pelech, 2nd round pick or a teams late first maybe. Nelson and even Palmieri can get them firsts also I think. I can see this direction if team falls out of it, I think they are going to make every attempt to get Hagens IMO. It’s a feeling I have had for a while, accumulating firsts allows them to put a legitimate offer for whomever ends up at 1 this year.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

I think they can get decent return for Pelech, 2nd round pick or a teams late first maybe. Nelson and even Palmieri can get them firsts also I think. I can see this direction if team falls out of it, I think they are going to make every attempt to get Hagens IMO. It’s a feeling I have had for a while, accumulating firsts allows them to put a legitimate offer for whomever ends up at 1 this year.

100% agree on these type of returns for Nelson and Palms but no way can I see that for Pelech. Injury prone and way too much term

 

[SI]

Compete for what? 11th place in the east?

If you don't beieve in a rebuild that's cool, but doing a "half fire sale" is a joke. Either sell whatever picks/prospects you have and go for a Cup now...Or f***ing tear it all down and rebuild this team right. Whatever you do just don't half-ass it or you're going to wind up nowhere good.

It's not all or nothing, and it doesn’t need to be scorched earth.

Not sure if full rebuilds are a viable solution—I think it’s catastrophic. It could take a decade for the team to come out of something like that. Look at Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa, to name a few. There’s no guarantee that bottoming out will lead to success, and it’s just as easy to get stuck in perpetual rebuilding mode.

With Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, and Romanov, the Islanders already have a solid foundation to build around. That’s a core that can compete if surrounded by the right pieces. If Lou is able to bring in two young players on ELCs (entry-level contracts) and possibly spend some of the available cap space wisely, there’s no reason this team can’t stay competitive while also positioning itself for the future.

It’s not about swinging wildly in one direction—whether going all-in for a Cup or blowing it up entirely—but rather finding a balance. The Isles have a core that’s good enough to be a playoff team with the right complementary pieces. Smart trades, strategic free-agent signings, and a continued focus on developing prospects can make all the difference.

 

[The Real JT]

Compete for what? 11th place in the east?

If you don't beieve in a rebuild that's cool, but doing a "half fire sale" is a joke. Either sell whatever picks/prospects you have and go for a Cup now...Or f***ing tear it all down and rebuild this team right. Whatever you do just don't half-ass it or you're going to wind up nowhere good.

I’ve been on the rebuild bandwagon for a while now. I’d stop short of saying “tear it all down“ but I get what you’re saying.

It’s pretty sad to say but I’ve gotten to the point where I think the only untouchable is Sorokin. That’s not to say you trade every other player of value but I won’t be disappointed if several core players are flipped.

I’d hold onto Lee because it’s a bad look to trade your captain and he actually has shown some signs of life this year. Letting him age out of his overvalued contract is the most prudent move in my mind. I think you only give up Barzal on a one for one swap for a skilled quality player who has fallen out of favor with his current team. You don’t trade a guy like that for picks or a handful of spare parts. As for Horvat, he may be the biggest disappointment thus far this year. It’s a small sample size and there’s certainly time for him to turn it around, but I’m not liking what I’m seeing.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Compete for what? 11th place in the east?

If you don't beieve in a rebuild that's cool, but doing a "half fire sale" is a joke. Either sell whatever picks/prospects you have and go for a Cup now...Or f***ing tear it all down and rebuild this team right. Whatever you do just don't half-ass it or you're going to wind up nowhere good.

I think at this point you need to do the following by the deadline:

- decide who to keep out of Palmieri and Nelson. Trade one of them for picks and prospects.
- I am assuming at that point Nelson is the one you keep.
- see what you can get for Pageau or Lee. I assume Pageau has some value now after the season he is having. Lee I am unsure of.
- This may be an offseason move but you cannot win a Cup with Barzal AND Dobson making elite money while being very good players. The goal is to win a Cup in this league and I do not see a world where both of these players are holding it on the same team.

 

[periferal]

It's not all or nothing, and it doesn’t need to be scorched earth.

Not sure if full rebuilds are a viable solution—I think it’s catastrophic. It could take a decade for the team to come out of something like that. Look at Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa, to name a few. There’s no guarantee that bottoming out will lead to success, and it’s just as easy to get stuck in perpetual rebuilding mode.

It's just such a one-sided argument though. You have to add color to your " Look at Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa" point...

1. Buffalo - Pegula is such a bad NHL owner that he has slowed their rebuild progress down considerably. To that point they got bad luck with Eichel's injury and then alientaed him so they could be in a different spot today if not for both those things.
2. Ottawa - Had ownership issues themselves the past decade and finally have a new one so let's see where they go.
3. Detroit - Not sure they ever dedicated themselves to a full rebuild. In the past decade they've had just one (1) top 5 pick and to do a successfully rebuild you usually need multiple top 3 picks.

Conversely...for all that "Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa" teams you mentioned, you have to turn the telescope around and look at all the rebuild successes over the past 20 years. Almost every team that won a Cup did so with a core of top draft picks. And they to those top draft picks by truly sucking for multiple seasons. I'm talking about the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, Lightning, Avalanche to "name a few."

The "nothing is gauranteed if you rebuild arguemnt" is just so weak. Nothing is guaranteed no matter how you try to build your team...But if anything there's more evidence that Lou's way of spending to the cap on average players is not working at all. And he's literally only GM'ed one way over the past 40 years so even if you want subtle change you're going to have to replace him because he's only going to keep doing what he's been doing.

With Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, and Romanov, the Islanders already have a solid foundation to build around. That’s a core that can compete if surrounded by the right pieces. If Lou is able to bring in two young players on ELCs (entry-level contracts) and possibly spend some of the available cap space wisely, there’s no reason this team can’t stay competitive while also positioning itself for the future.

What you call a "solid foundation" I see as a "tired and average core." Sorokin is the only elite player the Isles have. When Dobson gets is massive payday in the next few months, the Isles are going to have roughly 30 million in cap space committed to those 4 skaters you mentioned who literally scare no other team on a nightly basis. Where is the true gamebreaking talent going to come from to elevate this team to Cup contention in your short-term non-rebuild? Pretty much every player that is elite and leads his team close to a Cup is not only taken with a top pick, but rarely ever changes teams. MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Makar, Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Ovechkin, Kane, Hedman, Toews, Stamkos, and more are all top 3 picks in the draft. Those guys basically never come available in a trade in their prime, and even if one of the top players in the league did now, the Isles would be hard-pressed to have the assets to trade for them.

It’s not about swinging wildly in one direction—whether going all-in for a Cup or blowing it up entirely—but rather finding a balance. The Isles have a core that’s good enough to be a playoff team with the right complementary pieces. Smart trades, strategic free-agent signings, and a continued focus on developing prospects can make all the difference.

I appreciate your diplomatic philosophy, but the Isles have already been a "playoff team" 2 of the last 3 seasons, but is that all we're aiming for? We need to stop acting like, "If we just get into the playoffs anything can happen." That's such weak garth snow bs. We're multiple top pieces away from being a true Cup contender.

You use the phrase "swinging wildly" as if the Isles GM should attned a 6 year old's birthday party and try to hit a pinata. With a rebuld I'm talking about having a concrete and well thought out plan - Trading older vets to the highest bidder for picks and young prospects, committing to youth across the board with a coach who can instill confidence, get the very top picks in a couple of drafts, and assemble hopefully the best scouting department in the league to capitalize on every pick. Then when a new under 23 year old core starts to emerge, start adding in quality vets to accelerate the team back to playoff threat and Cup contender.

There's no question this plan will take years, but...

1. If you do it right it will not take a decade to get back.
2. Again this is what most of the Cup winning teams have done over the past 20 years.
3. The path we're on with the GM we have is actually leading us nowhere, so we're actually wasting years right now.

 

[Strummergas]

Those snippets are draft hype quotes from 2019, its not the player he is, he is similar to Wahlstrom from fans who actually watch him play.

I mean, obviously...

It's not all or nothing, and it doesn’t need to be scorched earth.

Not sure if full rebuilds are a viable solution—I think it’s catastrophic. It could take a decade for the team to come out of something like that. Look at Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa, to name a few. There’s no guarantee that bottoming out will lead to success, and it’s just as easy to get stuck in perpetual rebuilding mode.

With Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, and Romanov, the Islanders already have a solid foundation to build around. That’s a core that can compete if surrounded by the right pieces. If Lou is able to bring in two young players on ELCs (entry-level contracts) and possibly spend some of the available cap space wisely, there’s no reason this team can’t stay competitive while also positioning itself for the future.

It’s not about swinging wildly in one direction—whether going all-in for a Cup or blowing it up entirely—but rather finding a balance. The Isles have a core that’s good enough to be a playoff team with the right complementary pieces. Smart trades, strategic free-agent signings, and a continued focus on developing prospects can make all the difference.

This poster is obvious example of all or nothing. It's kinda what he does, and ONLY what he does.