Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

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Listen, my personal preference would've been to make another deal or two and gather more assets. But, I'm also not as distraught as a lot of posters here. Probably because I'm not a fan of a tear down rebuild and would rather try to retool on the fly and remain competitive. Mostly because I think that's the way teams have to build anymore in a salary cap/UFA league, and especially for a non-Original 6/Sunbelt/tax haven franchise like the Isles. If we're a lottery team for a few years we get back that no-trade list stink that's hard to then lose. Do I think Lou should stay on as GM? No, I've thought for the past couple of years that the league has passed him by. And I'm holding out some hope that we might get a surprise after the season is over.

But in the meantime, from a purely asset management perspective, at this point it's now two straight TDLs where we haven't traded away picks. It looks like we didn't lose any assets for nothing. Nelson generated a good return (pretty high end prospect and a 1st round pick in what is supposed to be a deep draft). Palmieri apparently is re-signing - hopefully for no more than 2 years and a reasonable number, but we'll see. Yeah, if you view it from the tear-it-down perspective it sucks that he wasn't dealt. But in a retool you're keeping a guy who is a good teammate for young players coming up, and with 20 goals at this point he's tied with a bunch of players for 65th in goals in the league (in a 32 team league that's not bad). When the Isles made their playoff run in 1975, Parise and Drouin were the most important forwards. They weren't around for the Cups, but they paved the way and taught Gillies, Nystrom, etc.. [Palmieri even kind of looks like Parise and Drouin :laugh: .]

Teams were inquiring about JGP and Lee? Sure, maybe. But if they were, were they looking for retention this year and next? 25-50% maybe? That's a lot of cap space - again no prob if you're in the tear down group, but not so hot if you want to retool and compete. So, they're still on the roster and worst case can contribute next year and, again, provide leadership/experience for young players. If the Isles find themselves in the same position a year from now, hopefully they trade them at that time and get assets back for them.

The Isles apparently did not offer Nelson a 5 or 6 year contract at $7-8M per year. I view that as a good thing. If the mindset of the Mayfield/Engvall summer applied, Nelson would've been offered that kind of contract. They didn't trade picks. I fully expected Nelson to either be re-signed or to be traded for a player who could contribute right now, to a playoff run. The fact that Nelson was dealt for pure futures tells me something different may be going on. Maybe, just maybe, there is some kind of leash on Lou, and maybe we get an announcement after the season ends. We'll see. But in the meantime, at worst there was not active damage done to the team (trading away futures or taking on expensive new contracts). They got good value for their best asset, and retained the other ones and can still flip them in the future. They have all their picks this summer, and two 1st round picks next year. You can bemoan lost opportunities, but if they keep their picks and don't lose guys for nothing by letting them walk away, so long as they draft well the pipeline should improve.
At the core, I agree with what you're saying. Big issue here unfortunately appears to be a lack of understanding of what this team is. This is deeply concerning to me and should be to a lot of fans and ownership. LL, by all accounts appears to want everyone back. If it weren't for Nelson, he'd be back. Palms is obviously back. Others are back. With the cap going up, assuming new contracts for all RFA, we are right at the cap or close to it. Was that really the plan? It certainly appears that way. That's deeply concerning.

Just last offseason, we were talking about JGP having negative value. Ditto Lee. We had a chance to flip the script and unload them with centers being at a premium and Lee having a rebirth of sorts. In a lost year, we squandered an opportunity to do so. Trading these two would still put us in a position to retool instead of a rebuild. We still have Barzal, Horvat, and Sorokin. In a sellers market, we could've collected the assets and used them in trades to bring in impact players. But instead you have this insane loyalty to the individual players instead of realizing there's a problem with the team and roster construction.

LL has done a lot of good. Much like a player admiring a home run in baseball, Lou too is admiring his roster. Except it's not a home run. It's a pop up and Lou is rounding the bases like it's a home run.

Lou is not accountable to anyone. Not the fans. Not the ownership.
 
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If you call this a retool then realize it would not have started had Brock Nelson not boxed Lou into a corner by turning down his extension offers.

Thank you, Brock, from saving Lou from himself.

It would be mind-boggling if the GM didn’t inquire as to what the contract demands are.
 
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If you call this a retool then realize it would not have started had Brock Nelson not boxed Lou into a corner by turning down his extension offers.

Thank you, Brock, from saving Lou from himself.
It’s sad that it was the player causing our GM to do what is right for the organization ! There should be no reason this ownership group continues with Lou after seasons end and kind of frightening that if Nelson accepted the offer , we would head into another season running back the same group. Lou can’t think that the injuries sustained this year should they have not happened , would’ve put this group anywhere close to a top tier team, if he did, it’s criminal.
 
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Sad to see Brock go, but seems like a good return. I expect Lou to flip that first for something in the summer to retool..
This is unfortunately what will likely happen.
I still have zero interest in firesaling and taking it down to the wood for half a decade..
We’ve almost reached half a decade of irrelevance right now. And we’re in a much worse spot than if we had taken it down to the wood.
 
This is unfortunately what will likely happen.

We’ve almost reached half a decade of irrelevance right now. And we’re in a much worse spot than if we had taken it down to the wood.
Agree to disagree. They’ve played meaningful games late in every year except the debacle year opening UBS. I’d rather have a decade of meaningful games all season and a shot in the playoffs (esp with a goalie that can be very good) then watching shit players drift in and out annually with a bunch of kids who may or may not develop into what they’re supposed to while knowing there’s no sniff of POs every year in September.

To each their own! 🙂
 
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Palmieri is a small piece but a solid addition to a win now team. That team will overpay him to a slight extent in years and/or dollars to get them over the top. Sounds like a fit for the Isles going forward? I don’t see how anyone comes to that conclusion.

Was he worth more than a second round pick? Most of us think so. Not a single one of us knows what might have been offered and frankly Lou may have made it clear that he was not available. For arguments sake, let’s say it was only a second round pick. Why all the hate about that value? Like we don’t need assets to develop or use in a trade?

One last point and please don’t take this to mean that I think Palmieri has no value. We know he’s 34 years old but does everyone realize that his 20 goals this year are tied to a career high shooting percentage? At his typical shooting percentage he’d have 15 goals. This season he’s one of the worst +/- players on the team and last year he was easily the worst.

Sorry for all the facts.
 
Palmieri is a small piece but a solid addition to a win now team. That team will overpay him to a slight extent in years and/or dollars to get them over the top. Sounds like a fit for the Isles going forward? I don’t see how anyone comes to that conclusion.

Was he worth more than a second round pick? Most of us think so. Not a single one of us knows what might have been offered and frankly Lou may have made it clear that he was not available. For arguments sake, let’s say it was only a second round pick. Why all the hate about that value? Like we don’t need assets to develop or use in a trade?

One last point and please don’t take this to mean that I think Palmieri has no value. We know he’s 34 years old but does everyone realize that his 20 goals this year are tied to a career high shooting percentage? At his typical shooting percentage he’d have 15 goals. This season he’s one of the worst +/- players on the team and last year he was easily the worst.

Sorry for all the facts.
Also Palms production came with Brock

Who is gone
 
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At the core, I agree with what you're saying. Big issue here unfortunately appears to be a lack of understanding of what this team is. This is deeply concerning to me and should be to a lot of fans and ownership. LL, by all accounts appears to want everyone back. If it weren't for Nelson, he'd be back. Palms is obviously back. Others are back. With the cap going up, assuming new contracts for all RFA, we are right at the cap or close to it. Was that really the plan? It certainly appears that way. That's deeply concerning.

Just last offseason, we were talking about JGP having negative value. Ditto Lee. We had a chance to flip the script and unload them with centers being at a premium and Lee having a rebirth of sorts. In a lost year, we squandered an opportunity to do so. Trading these two would still put us in a position to retool instead of a rebuild. We still have Barzal, Horvat, and Sorokin. In a sellers market, we could've collected the assets and used them in trades to bring in impact players. But instead you have this insane loyalty to the individual players instead of realizing there's a problem with the team and roster construction.

LL has done a lot of good. Much like a player admiring a home run in baseball, Lou too is admiring his roster. Except it's not a home run. It's a pop up and Lou is rounding the bases like it's a home run.

Lou is not accountable to anyone. Not the fans. Not the ownership.
And at the core I agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, one thing I keep seeing here is that Nelson "saved" Lou by turning down his contract offer (supposedly 3x $7.5M) Yet, if the Isles signed Nelson to a 5x $7.5M contract, we'd be seeing posts complaining about the term and saying, "we should've offered Nelson 3x $7.5M and if he turned it down, then trade him". ;) And do we seriously think Nelson will sign a 3 year contract this summer? Seems to me that the Isles offered Nelson a contract below what the market will provide on 7/1, and Nelson turned it down. If the Isles offered a 5 or 6 year contract and he turned it down, then we could talk about saving.
 
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The only conclusion one can reach from this deadline is that Lou believes that this group will be competitive next season. And by ‘this group’ he doesn’t mean just the core (Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Sorokin), but the entire group. It is mind boggling that anyone can watch this group of players regularly and think they are close to competing for a cup.
As it currently stands, assuming Palmieri has signed and that Holmstrom and Tsyplakov will be as well, there is one forward spot open for next year, everything else is basically set. Unless the forward being brought in is a top ten player in the league, I do not see a path back to competitive status.
Perhaps the plan is to trade Dobson for a high end forward, or to find one via free agency. In terms of UFA’s, I think there’s only three options there worth pursing Marner, Ehlers, Bennett - assuming these three even make it to UFA, the Isles always struggle to land the big UFA’s.
I have no faith in Lou, but I also have no faith in ownership replacing him this year. So, we are left hoping Lou is able to pull off a great offseason, which he has repeatedly failed to do.
 
Agree to disagree. They’ve played meaningful games late in every year except the debacle year opening UBS. I’d rather have a decade of meaningful games all season and a shot in the playoffs (esp with a goalie that can be very good) then watching shit players drift in and out annually with a bunch of kids who may or may not develop into what they’re supposed to while knowing there’s no sniff of POs every year in September.

To each their own! 🙂
The games were meaningful because the team was fighting for their playoff lives from February until the end of the season. Having to play balls to the wall the final 35 games of every season just to make a wild card spot is not what the plan should be each year, but here we are again. If this floats your boat because you think the alternative is the 1990s Islanders, knock yourself out. I can assure you you're in the minority.
 
The only conclusion one can reach from this deadline is that Lou believes that this group will be competitive next season. And by ‘this group’ he doesn’t mean just the core (Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Sorokin), but the entire group. It is mind boggling that anyone can watch this group of players regularly and think they are close to competing for a cup.
As it currently stands, assuming Palmieri has signed and that Holmstrom and Tsyplakov will be as well, there is one forward spot open for next year, everything else is basically set. Unless the forward being brought in is a top ten player in the league, I do not see a path back to competitive status.
Perhaps the plan is to trade Dobson for a high end forward, or to find one via free agency. In terms of UFA’s, I think there’s only three options there worth pursing Marner, Ehlers, Bennett - assuming these three even make it to UFA, the Isles always struggle to land the big UFA’s.
I have no faith in Lou, but I also have no faith in ownership replacing him this year. So, we are left hoping Lou is able to pull off a great offseason, which he has repeatedly failed to do.
You have to think with Florida acquiring King Rat that Bennett is going to be a free agent. Ideally Ehlers should be the main target but he’s probably the top UFA forward if he makes it that far. This team doesn’t do well in that department. The only plus we have is that with Lou Ehlers wouldn’t have to worry about shaving since he can’t grow a beard anyways. Personally I don’t want Marner unless he can be an adult and show up without his circus. They don’t need additional distractions.
 
If you call this a retool then realize it would not have started had Brock Nelson not boxed Lou into a corner by turning down his extension offers.

Thank you, Brock, from saving Lou from himself.
I don’t see much of a retool. I think there was potential to retool if we moved some pieces but all we did was sell Brock because he didn’t want to come back (he’s an A captain too which is concerning). There is no change in philosophy. It was a deal made in a silo and now Lou goes forward with the roster he loves.
 
For all the people who go into cardiac arrest at the mere mention of the word "rebuild" let me tell you something...


The longer Lou stays on as President/GM, the more guaranteed a rebuild is going to be.


This was his year to "retool" things. Instead he continues to triple down on every single person on this roster. The only reason Nelson was traded is because he refused any contract extension from Lou, and Lou was either forced to deal him by ownership and/or Lou knew that the heat/utter embarrassment by not trading Nelson would lead to his firing.

For anyone who can put 2 and 2 together, you've seen Lou's resume. He's told us everything he's going to do by everything he's already done.

Every single player on this roster from Barzal to Hudson Fasching is going to be resigned to death until they become Matt Martin...Or worse Lou is going to continue his pattern of waste more picks getting rid of the bad contracts he handed out just to be cap compliant.

For those of you already discussing the "next moves" that Lou should make because you think there's hope - There isn't. Trotz is the only thing that is keeping Lou from being filed in the long list of lackluster/terrible GM's this franchise has had.

He hasn't gotten it done. He can't get it done. And until he's fired it will continue to be as it's been...And worse.


#FireLou
 
Palmieri is a small piece but a solid addition to a win now team. That team will overpay him to a slight extent in years and/or dollars to get them over the top. Sounds like a fit for the Isles going forward? I don’t see how anyone comes to that conclusion.

Was he worth more than a second round pick? Most of us think so. Not a single one of us knows what might have been offered and frankly Lou may have made it clear that he was not available. For arguments sake, let’s say it was only a second round pick. Why all the hate about that value? Like we don’t need assets to develop or use in a trade?

One last point and please don’t take this to mean that I think Palmieri has no value. We know he’s 34 years old but does everyone realize that his 20 goals this year are tied to a career high shooting percentage? At his typical shooting percentage he’d have 15 goals. This season he’s one of the worst +/- players on the team and last year he was easily the worst.

Sorry for all the facts.
Can you imagine what those numbers will be like if the islanders had a functioning power? Same goes for Brock.

I don’t care who they trade or who they add, if they are unable to fix that this team will not compete.
 
I honestly never hated a GM as much as I hate Lou, going back to Maloney/ Milbury/Snow, if they made bad deal I almost considered it the luck of the draw and they weren't deliberately trying to sabotage the team (maybe Maloney was given his Rangers roots, and I never saw Snow as an awful GM) but Lou is a selfish and an evil f***, he sees the Islanders as his last chance to win a cup and that is his only concern, he is going to burn this whole thing to the ground just to keep the miniscule chance of having 1 last ring alive, the fact he wouldn't even trade Palmieri for an asset yesterday seeing how crippled our farm system has become because I am sure Kyle expressed his desire to not get traded shows he has no respect for the Islanders and Islander fans.
 
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I honestly never hated a GM as much as I hate Lou, going back to Maloney/ Milbury/Snow, if they made bad deal I almost considered it the luck of the draw and they weren't deliberately trying to sabotage the team (maybe Maloney was given his Rangers roots, and I never saw Snow as an awful GM) but Lou is a selfish and an evil f***, he sees the Islanders as his last chance to win a cup and that is his only concern, he is going to burn this whole thing to the ground just to keep the miniscule chance of having 1 last ring alive, the fact he wouldn't even trade Palmieri for an asset yesterday seeing how crippled our farm system has become because I am sure Kyle expressed his desire to not get traded shows he has no respect for the Islanders and Islander fans.
Not sure I agree with you we had some doozies for GM’s

Maloney dismantled could’ve been a competitive team and traded the teams best player and future hall of famer for a guy who did not wanna be here

Milbury was dealt a terrible hand with revolving awful ownership, but impatience was his undoing.

Snow the ultimate dumpster diver never got this team anywhere could never put the right people in charge.

At least Lou got the isles some playoff success. It would be nice to know his plan, but that’s not how he works.
 
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I suspect because he's still got a year left on his deal and the team needs bodies. If you sell off a third of your top 9, you have to replace them with someone. If the team is in the same position next year, I'm guessing that deals will be entertained.

This is a fair thought process. As someone who is surprised Pageau has any value at all I worry we wasted an opportunity to get some value for him when we may not get any at all next season.
 
I think just about anyone BESIDES Lou would have traded Palms with how our current roster is constructed- especially after he moved Nelson....again, it is not difficult to come to this conclusion.

Lou is predictably stale and needs to go....period.
 
This is a fair thought process. As someone who is surprised Pageau has any value at all I worry we wasted an opportunity to get some value for him when we may not get any at all next season.
Huge opportunity lost. Moving Pageau and Palms also opens up 10+ mil in cap space that can be used to improve the roster. Plus we would have gotten some form of assets back that could be used to improve or unload some of these anchor contracts like Pulock opening up more flexibility.

At the end of the day Lou still thinks this is a good team and that’s the problem. The right tool is needed for the right job. Lou was great after Snow as he finally went for it with a stockpile of assets that Snow left. He filled some holes Garth couldn’t. But now we aren’t winning and the cupboards are barre. We need a new GM.
 

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