Roster depth: 1980s USSR vs. 2010 Russia

[Vladsky]

We have heard a lot about Canada's 2010 Olympics squad being miles deeper that Russia's, but I have a feeling that depth was not the main reason Russia lost.

IMHO, comparing Russia 1984/87 CC roster with the 2010 Olympics team:

G: 1980s (post-Tretiak) < 2010 (I have to give Nabby/Bryz an edge)
D: 1980s > 2010 (Fetisov and Kasatonov are the difference)
F: 2010 > 1980s (Individually, Ov/Malkin/Kov/Datsyuk have an edge over KLM et al).

1980s Soviets did not have a problem facing Canada's best: although they lost in 1984 and 1987, their victory would not be looked at as a major upset.

Discuss.

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[Zine]

Depends what part of 1980s your talking about.

Overall depth:

Early/mid 1980s > 2010 team

Mid/late 1980s < 2010 team


2010 team didn't lose because of lack of depth, they lost because of lack of coaching.

 

[Reds4Life]

Is this a joke? The KLM line is much better than anything Russians had ever since. A bunch of stars (Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk) are not even close to the TEAM Russians had back then. Also, Russia's defense in 2010 is a joke.

 

[Vladsky]

Is this a joke? The KLM line is much better than anything Russians had ever since. A bunch of stars (Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk) are not even close to the TEAM Russians had back then. Also, Russia's defense in 2010 is a joke.

The 2010-ers are a joke because of the way they played together as a team, but NOT in terms of individual talent. This is the whole point of the discussion.

 

[Big Phil]

Tretiak >>>>>>>> Nabokov in a walk. Not sure what the OP was smoking there. Tretiak never allowed 6 goals in the first 16 minutes of a game that I can remember.

And the best Russian teams had incredible depth. Which is what the 2010 team lacked in comparison. Good top end talent for sure but the '80s teams had 3 -4 lines that were dangerous.

Plus the defense was always better. Unless someone thinks Gonchar is comparable to Fetisov. I don't.

And the '80s teams scared the lights out of me. Even if they lost you never saw a bad game from the KLM line and players like Kamensky or Bykov or Shepelev would step up too. In the quarter finals I barely even saw Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk or Kovalchuk. Ovechkin went a period without touching the puck. Malkin was invisible. Datsyuk couldn't spin his magic and we didn't see Kovy OR Ovy lead one of their great rushes. Not once did I ever get the impression that the Russians would come back in the game. But in the '80s you could be up 4-1 and they had the ability to tie the game up within 6 minutes.

I advise people to watch the '80s Soviets just to see how dominant they were

 

[Vladsky]

Tretiak >>>>>>>> Nabokov in a walk. Not sure what the OP was smoking there. Tretiak never allowed 6 goals in the first 16 minutes of a game that I can remember.

And the best Russian teams had incredible depth. Which is what the 2010 team lacked in comparison. Good top end talent for sure but the '80s teams had 3 -4 lines that were dangerous.

Plus the defense was always better. Unless someone thinks Gonchar is comparable to Fetisov. I don't.

And the '80s teams scared the lights out of me. Even if they lost you never saw a bad game from the KLM line and players like Kamensky or Bykov or Shepelev would step up too. In the quarter finals I barely even saw Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk or Kovalchuk. Ovechkin went a period without touching the puck. Malkin was invisible. Datsyuk couldn't spin his magic and we didn't see Kovy OR Ovy lead one of their great rushes. Not once did I ever get the impression that the Russians would come back in the game. But in the '80s you could be up 4-1 and they had the ability to tie the game up within 6 minutes.

I advise people to watch the '80s Soviets just to see how dominant they were

I edited the OP to avoid Tretiak comparison.

I have to respectfully disagree with the remainder of the above post. The Soviet 80s teams were dominant because of their chemistry and superior tactics, courtesy of coach Tikhonov. This, however, is not the same as being very deep. Depth to me is defined by the quality of players available to build the squad.

In this respect, Tikhonov managed to build superior teams by making tactics and motivation compensate for the relatively low skill of 3rd and 4th liners.

 

[NMF78]

The 2010-ers are a joke because of the way they played together as a team, but NOT in terms of individual talent. This is the whole point of the discussion.

even in terms of individual talent KLM was probably better then those players

 

[Zine]

Tretiak >>>>>>>> Nabokov in a walk. Not sure what the OP was smoking there. Tretiak never allowed 6 goals in the first 16 minutes of a game that I can remember.

And the best Russian teams had incredible depth. Which is what the 2010 team lacked in comparison. Good top end talent for sure but the '80s teams had 3 -4 lines that were dangerous.

Plus the defense was always better. Unless someone thinks Gonchar is comparable to Fetisov. I don't.

And the '80s teams scared the lights out of me. Even if they lost you never saw a bad game from the KLM line and players like Kamensky or Bykov or Shepelev would step up too. In the quarter finals I barely even saw Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk or Kovalchuk. Ovechkin went a period without touching the puck. Malkin was invisible. Datsyuk couldn't spin his magic and we didn't see Kovy OR Ovy lead one of their great rushes. Not once did I ever get the impression that the Russians would come back in the game. But in the '80s you could be up 4-1 and they had the ability to tie the game up within 6 minutes.

I advise people to watch the '80s Soviets just to see how dominant they were

Tretiak's last game was in early 1984......so for the rest of the decade NT was stuck with Mylnikov and Belosheikin. Quite a notch below Nabokov, or even Bryzgalov.

Early 80s teams had good depth, but later 80s teams had the worst depth of any Soviet/Russia era I can think of since the 1960s.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Game 1 - 1972

Tretiak >>>>>>>> Nabokov in a walk. Not sure what the OP was smoking there. Tretiak never allowed 6 goals in the first 16 minutes of a game that I can remember.

And the best Russian teams had incredible depth. Which is what the 2010 team lacked in comparison. Good top end talent for sure but the '80s teams had 3 -4 lines that were dangerous.

Plus the defense was always better. Unless someone thinks Gonchar is comparable to Fetisov. I don't.

And the '80s teams scared the lights out of me. Even if they lost you never saw a bad game from the KLM line and players like Kamensky or Bykov or Shepelev would step up too. In the quarter finals I barely even saw Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk or Kovalchuk. Ovechkin went a period without touching the puck. Malkin was invisible. Datsyuk couldn't spin his magic and we didn't see Kovy OR Ovy lead one of their great rushes. Not once did I ever get the impression that the Russians would come back in the game. But in the '80s you could be up 4-1 and they had the ability to tie the game up within 6 minutes.

I advise people to watch the '80s Soviets just to see how dominant they were

Tretiak gave up two goals in the first two minutes of game 1 of the 1972 Summit Series.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Depth

We have heard a lot about Canada's 2010 Olympics squad being miles deeper that Russia's, but I have a feeling that depth was not the main reason Russia lost.

IMHO, comparing Russia 1984/87 CC roster with the 2010 Olympics team:

G: 1980s (post-Tretiak) < 2010 (I have to give Nabby/Bryz an edge)
D: 1980s > 2010 (Fetisov and Kasatonov are the difference)
F: 2010 > 1980s (Individually, Ov/Malkin/Kov/Datsyuk have an edge over KLM et al).

1980s Soviets did not have a problem facing Canada's best: although they lost in 1984 and 1987, their victory would not be looked at as a major upset.

Discuss.

Depth. Canada had a number of players like Eric Staal who could play two forward positions with equal effectiveness. Any time you have such players that is an extra roster spot that is in play for each player.

Soviet goalies since Tretiak have ranged from very good to excellent
but none would be HHOF caliber.

Individual talent wise you may have a point about Ovy/Malkin/Datsyuk/Kovalchuk over the KLM line BUT hockey is a very hard game to play and win 1 on 5. Very little team play from the forwards.

Example from the 1960's thru the 1980's on odd man rushes the winger would hold their wing not allowing a defenseman to cover two players and leaving wide and clear passing and shooting lanes for the attack. Now you see them selfishly go for the net at the first opportunity because they want to be the one to score and more often than not the opportunity is wasted.

Coaching. Watching the Olympics the impression I had was that the Russian coaching was not challenged on a nightly, shift by shift basis. The North American NHL coaches are challenged every game at such a level, so their in game adjustments are quicker, sharper and more decisive.

 

[VMBM]

Tretiak >>>>>>>> Nabokov in a walk. Not sure what the OP was smoking there. Tretiak never allowed 6 goals in the first 16 minutes of a game that I can remember.

No, only 5 goals inside 13 minutes 25 seconds (WHA Summit series, G4, 1st period, 4:20-17:45 http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1974/game04.htm)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=471584623110254270&hl=en#

Tretiak had his bad nights. But all in all, you're right obviously.