When you look at the list of promising young RD above by spockbokk, perhaps Canes felt that re-signing Pesce was not the right pathway to take. They probably figured someone would hit starting next year.
Roster Building XXVI: Picking Our Teeth Off the Ice
- Thread starter cptjeff
- Start date
CandyCanes
Caniac turned Jerkiac
- Jan 8, 2015
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Explains a good part of Svetch decline:
- Oct 31, 2007
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I mean, yeah, a guy coming off an ACL injury will almost certainly be slower than he was 3 years younger.
CandyCanes
Caniac turned Jerkiac
- Jan 8, 2015
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I ain’t got the time. But would be interesting to see other players overcoming a ACL injury to see their before/after on these skating stats.
yup…..so
Theoretical conclusion—he will continue to be a diminished player unless he can vastly improve his shot and/or become kreider like around the net.
bleedgreen
Registered User
The last interview with Tulsky I saw post Rants revealed he wanted to keep everyone so they were talking to everyone at the same time and presumably going low with prices, so by the time they knew they were losing people it was too late to up the price with everyone. He said he regretted the way they handled it and wished they had just focused on Jake, got him signed earlier and then figured out the others as best he could.
So they wanted Pesce to stay. I saw an interview with Pesce the next day and he was pumped to be closer to home, and wanted nothing to do with talking about what happened with the Canes, to the point of looking a bit annoyed about it. I took it as one of two ways. He was pissed they slow played him or he never intended to stay and wanted to be home and just wanted to focus on that. I’ve wondered if there’s frustration in the room with the way the contracts go for their friends and eventually themselves. You know they all talk about it obviously including the guys who leave.
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- Oct 31, 2007
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Eh, plenty of athletes have recovered from an ACL tear and gone on to have a successful career. Hell, Justin Williams tore his ACL and MCL twice before he was 26, AND suffered a torn Achilles the season after, and then played another 13 years, winning two Cups in the process.
And like I said Svetch will need to improve in other areas as stats show that his world class speed advantage is probably lost forever.
Williams could be the unicorn.
And
Remember, Williams’ early career was built on world class speed; later, on other hockey attributes including smarts and will to win.
Edit: it was never stated he couldn’t have a successful career btw. Your words.
Edit2: original post was an NHL Edge Graph Stat posted on X with my comment could explain and you took the discussion well beyond with incorrect innuendo. Geez.
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robbieberns
Registered User
I’ll give Svech another summer off to train and to boost his game back up to previous levels. He only just turned 25, no reason that an off season focusing on speed drills can’t get him back closer to his old self.
- Oct 31, 2007
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Yeah, but that applies to literally every hockey player as they age. OV was an absolute speed demon when he was younger. He’s not that today.
You literally stated “he will continue to be a diminished player.” In the post I quoted, you stated his speed “is probably lost forever.” How is that not a commentary on his future?
It’s also wildly incorrect, because again, there are plenty of athletes who have had these type of injuries and have recovered just fine afterwards. Do you really think Williams didn’t play a speedy game with LA?
Your original comment stated that a drop in speed from a season coming off a major leg injury and a season 3 years prior “explains a good part of his decline.” I simply said that a drop in speed is expected in said circumstances.
- Jun 14, 2016
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I feel like someone on those board has done a case study and 2 years seems to be the norm for full recovery back to previous level for an ACL. But maybe I dreamed it
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2011
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But Minnesota struggled BECAUSE Kaprisov got injured. I'd argue that he is more important to that team than just about any other player in the league. They aren't trading him. Plus Minnesota is finally exiting the buyout hell they put themselves in. Their future is bright with some excellent young pieces coming and finally some cap room.
- Dec 6, 2011
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I think Svech still has a chance to get back to form. He needs to get further from the big injury, get a little better luck on the smaller injuries, and ideally find him a 2C that he can mesh with. We know him and Aho haven't always been the best fit and Koko just isn't quite good enough to help get the best out of another player.
No.
My words were "theoretical conclusion" which is not a definite but rather a strong possibility.
And I said he needed to refine other parts of his game to thrive with his speed diminished. Fact: NHL Edge @ 68% versus previous 95%, takes him back into the pack of NHL players. That's not for debate. As you said it's natural for his speed to be less 3 years later but regardless he no longer has that advantage and that was a big part of his game.
And I said he will need to develop other avenues to excel....Ovie lost his speed but he still maintains his world class shot; Svetch does not presently have that advanced skill.
It's also been two years since his injury. He is well past the one year adjustment period many ACL athletes need for recovery and at 25 is in his prime.
Productivity: since 1/2/25, he has scored 7 goals in 42 games, 2 goals in the last 19 (he is in the box score with 23 penalty minutes in that period though). I didn't go there deeply via my original posts but looking at it, that's certainly a definition of a diminished player.
btw: please name the NHL players that have performed as well or better post ACL surgery. As I said, Williams was a unicorn for lots of non-speed reasons including his great defensive play. But, post ACL, he never scored 30+ goals again with performance usually in teens to low 20's goals scored.
So, it's theoretically probably that Svetch will never get to 30+ goals again unless he modifies how he applies himself on the ice and develops other scoring aspects in his toolkit.....his tendency to pass while within 10' of the goal sure isn't helping the team.
And for a 2OA, that is a bad result.
I'd close by saying I view Svetch as a great person and he has been kind to my granddaughter before games. To quote the Godfather, not personal, just business.
- Oct 31, 2007
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Off the top of my head, Taylor Hall, Joe Thornton, and Erik Johnson all dealt with ACL tears in their career. If you don’t limit it to NHL players (where ACL tears are a rather uncommon injury compared to other sports), Tom Brady also dealt with it and he’s one of the best to ever play.
Finally, I did find this medical journal online. It’s all very fancy and scientific, but the part I did understand was this:
bleedgreen
Registered User
Svech and his situation has some nuances to it. He wasn’t a very good or explosive skater before imo - not to the talent level the rest of his game suggests. He is/was powerful. Kind of similar to young JStaal, he builds momentum with a strong stride and there’s good speed once he’s there. He’s also upright and his strides look short. He didn’t have a lot of room to give up speed or stride length.
No small part of this is confidence. Not just in his knee but in his game. He doesn’t drive the net on the outside very often, if at all. That was his calling card. His hands are awful right now, which is almost always a confidence thing. He changed up his stick pattern to start the season then changed it again, looks like he just went back to what he used before. That’s pretty telling for an offensive player mid season. Changing a flex isn’t a huge deal but a completely different pattern means he’s actively trying to figure things out and hasn’t gotten there. That’s usually an off season thing. He’s lost this season.
I’m sure the knee isn’t helping but it ain’t all the knee. It might not be the knee at all at this point.
No small part of this is confidence. Not just in his knee but in his game. He doesn’t drive the net on the outside very often, if at all. That was his calling card. His hands are awful right now, which is almost always a confidence thing. He changed up his stick pattern to start the season then changed it again, looks like he just went back to what he used before. That’s pretty telling for an offensive player mid season. Changing a flex isn’t a huge deal but a completely different pattern means he’s actively trying to figure things out and hasn’t gotten there. That’s usually an off season thing. He’s lost this season.
I’m sure the knee isn’t helping but it ain’t all the knee. It might not be the knee at all at this point.
robbieberns
Registered User
Playoffs could be a big opportunity for him to flip a switch mentally, but I definitely think the hard reset of an offseason into a new season is needed.
I have noticed his Dad's posts have been a bit fiery and all in on the Devils.
Nikishin al Gaib
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
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I mean at the same time we also have Svech for another 4 years at a cap hit of only $7.75m. Even if he doesn't return to his form, its still likely the quality of play will be better than anything else we can get at that salary down the line.
Same reason why I am not sure we'll be entertaining a KK trade anytime soon, unless its a package to bring in a top line player. He's not world beating, but with the rising cap, you'll be hard pressed to find someone better at his current cost.
Same reason why I am not sure we'll be entertaining a KK trade anytime soon, unless its a package to bring in a top line player. He's not world beating, but with the rising cap, you'll be hard pressed to find someone better at his current cost.
bleedgreen
Registered User
I think you’re right about both players. We value….value. It’s about the accumulation of solid players vs having one overpaid star generally. Though we saw them swing at Rants obviously. I don’t disagree that have a decent sized core of younger guys scattered throughout the lineup at a known price for years is a good thing. It’s always about finding the right combo of players. KK - whether we like it or not takes a roster spot at a fairly reasonable price. He’s not the 2C but he’s a player for us. They undoubtedly see value in it.
Nikishin al Gaib
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
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At $4.8m it was absolutely worth the gamble on signing KK at 8 years and rolling the dice he can play 2C. If it worked, we have one of the biggest bargains the league has ever seen playing important minutes for us every night. In the end, it didn't work out, but when he does slot into 3C, it'll still be a pretty good price for us over the long haul.
Big Daddy Cane
Registered User
2026 UFA. If Kaprizov doesn’t commit, the Wild will have to explore it.
bleedgreen
Registered User
Agreed, though he’ll still be a drop off from Staal which puts more pressure on them to get a good 2C. That’s a pretty glaring hole in the lineup that has be looked at every time we don’t get very far in the playoffs.
spockBokk
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2013
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Sounds like they’ll finally give Nadeau another sniff, would guess Robidas too, maybe Suzuki. Perhaps Smith up on D, or Fensore/Legault - they’ve been good soldiers this year, especially Fensore.
They’d have to put a player or 2 on IR or send Morrow/Jost down to a make room for any callups since they’re at the 23 man limit, for the next few days at least
They’d have to put a player or 2 on IR or send Morrow/Jost down to a make room for any callups since they’re at the 23 man limit, for the next few days at least
