Roster Building XX: How Many Patents Does Your GM Have?

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
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North Carolina
To me, Ehlers for Necas only makes sense if Winnipeg throws the 37th overall pick in the package. Throw pick #37 and I think the Canes would be OK with losing a year of control, depending on what others offer. I still think someone like Crouse is the ideal player to acquire for Carolina, however, but Ehlers + #37 would give the Canes another potential whack at the wheel to get a good young player relatively-early in the draft.
I've wanted Crouse for a bit now. I'd try and structure a trade around something like this:

From Carolina

Martin Necas

From Utah

Lawson Crouse
Sean Durzi

I believe the aggregate value of Crouse and Durzi is about equal to Necas.

Pairing Necas with a rising Logan Cooley would make for a dynamic duo. Add in Clayton Keller and that's a damn dynamic line. I'm sure Utah would think it's an overpay on their part, so I'd be willing to throw in a later pick (4th? 5th?).
 

bleedgreen

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Dec 8, 2003
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No need trading Necas for someone that doesn’t improve our playoff chances. Just keep him if we are getting a similar styled player
There’s no reason Ehlers doesn’t improve our chances. He’s a better playmaker. The issue with Necas isn’t that he’s perimeter it’s that he doesn’t mesh with anyone on top of being way too loose with the puck. Ehlers isn’t loose with the puck, meshes with linemates well and wouldn’t have an issue with the system. That sounds like improvement. Ehlers doesn’t make sense because of his contract situation and potentially his health.

Necas doesn’t want to play with us, so yes we can force him to stay but that’s not really a good move. We’re obviously going to make efforts to accommodate that, especially after he played so well in the WC’s. There’s been talk at times that it could be a futures deal if the pieces are good enough. That won’t help us in the playoffs, doesn’t mean it’s not a good deal. An attitude of “we won’t trade Necas unless we get a better playoff player” is a nice concept, but one that’s unlikely to hold up.

We’re going to make the best deal we can period.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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There’s no reason Ehlers doesn’t improve our chances. He’s a better playmaker. The issue with Necas isn’t that he’s perimeter it’s that he doesn’t mesh with anyone on top of being way too loose with the puck. Ehlers isn’t loose with the puck, meshes with linemates well and wouldn’t have an issue with the system. That sounds like improvement. Ehlers doesn’t make sense because of his contract situation and potentially his health.

Necas doesn’t want to play with us, so yes we can force him to stay but that’s not really a good move. We’re obviously going to make efforts to accommodate that, especially after he played so well in the WC’s. There’s been talk at times that it could be a futures deal if the pieces are good enough. That won’t help us in the playoffs, doesn’t mean it’s not a good deal. An attitude of “we won’t trade Necas unless we get a better playoff player” is a nice concept, but one that’s unlikely to hold up.

We’re going to make the best deal we can period.
Ehlers doesn’t play playoff hockey. He hangs around the perimeter. 37 games, 14 points. 10 are those assists. Not much help there.

That is a worse ppg ratio than necas too.
.378 to .508
 

chaz4hockey

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Jan 21, 2021
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This year, the Canes had the best PP% during the regular season than they've ever had since Brind'Amour took over. The entire 5 man unit gets credit, not just who you want to pick and choose to give credit to.


His SH% the last 5 seasons:
5.3%, 5.1%, 4.9%, 7.1%, 5.4% (this year). It's pretty much the same as it has been for 5+ years. It was 4.2% in the playoffs this year. With the small sample size, that is not "degraded tremendously" as it's not statistically significant. The date doesn't back your statements up.

Ok, that's fair.

Clog the middle isn't how the Canes defensemen operate. If they are good skaters, then sure, but with the man to man defense they play, "clogging up the middle" really isn't what they do.

I'm all for if the Canes can get an upgrade to play with Slavin. No argument there. I'm just reacting to the hindsight you and others are displaying towards Burns after a poor playoffs and now changing the narrative of the entire 82 game season makes no sense.

Maybe he'll finally degrade enough to warrant a 3rd pairing next year, but he certainly wasn't one this year.
Sure but clogging the middle/being physical is a key playoff requirement.

Tampa, Vegas, Florida are recent examples.

It’s been part of the playoff world for decades. This year reminds me of 1983 when the Islanders shut down Gretzky and the high flying Oiler offense by keeping Wayne to the outside and playing physical. Oilers scored 424 times in an 80 game season and yet only scored 6 goals in the Finals, with 1/2 of that in one game.

Re: Burns - his Shot % was down 24% versus LY’s regular season and at 4.2% in the playoffs was really substandard. As you know, RBA finally saw the light and substituted Skjei which resulted in more success.

FWIW: I was not thrilled with Burns play second half of the year. As I’ve noted, I’m in the camp that he is no longer a first tier defensemen and he should not play with Slavin moving forward. I believe Year one was great, LY not so much.

What is apparent looking at his PIM over the years is that he has always been more of a finesse defenseman, no matter his size. That’s Ok in the Regular season but in the playoffs we need more from him given the enhanced level of playoff hockey. It’s particularly important since we don’t get much from our other top 5 either (to be fair he did have a few moments against Tro which helped).

Btw: Hindsight is important…that’s a review step that Players & Management should take after failures (and if they are part of a well run business , successes too); and sure, fans are always part of the hindsight chorus.
 
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bleedgreen

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Ehlers doesn’t play playoff hockey. He hangs around the perimeter. 37 games, 14 points. 10 are those assists. Not much help there.

That is a worse ppg ratio than necas too.
.378 to .508
Making trades based off playoff ppg doesn’t make sense. Too many factors. You need players who get you into the playoffs as much as you need guys who excel once you get there. Necas makes lots of big plays all season long, as does Ehlers. Jake’s a playoff ppg stud, how far did that stat get us?
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Jul 31, 2017
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Making trades based off playoff ppg doesn’t make sense. Too many factors. You need players who get you into the playoffs as much as you need guys who excel once you get there. Necas makes lots of big plays all season long, as does Ehlers. Jake’s a playoff ppg stud, how far did that stat get us?
We’ll have a roster that will make the playoffs. Ehlers has been disappointing in the playoffs, even while playing on the top line.

Bad comparison with JG though. One meh playoff performance isn’t the same as a guy who has been bad in the playoffs all the time. 1 is an outlier the other is a pattern.
 

bleedgreen

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We’ll have a roster that will make the playoffs. Ehlers has been disappointing in the playoffs, even while playing on the top line.

Bad comparison with JG though. One meh playoff performance isn’t the same as a guy who has been bad in the playoffs all the time. 1 is an outlier the other is a pattern.
I didn’t compare Ehlers to JG. I was commenting on the fickle nature of using a stat like playoff ppg when not considering all the factors that go into it. Saying Necas is a better playoff player than Ehlers based on that one stat doesn’t make sense. Saying we wouldn’t improve as a team for the swap if you’re actually watched both players doesn’t really add up. I don’t feel like you’ve watched Ehlers play much, the comparison between the two doesn’t make much sense.

Either way, we both agree the contract and health are plenty good enough reasons to not trade for the guy.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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I didn’t compare Ehlers to JG. I was commenting on the fickle nature of using a stat like playoff ppg when not considering all the factors that go into it. Saying Necas is a better playoff player than Ehlers based on that one stat doesn’t make sense. Saying we wouldn’t improve as a team for the swap if you’re actually watched both players doesn’t really add up. I don’t feel like you’ve watched Ehlers play much, the comparison between the two doesn’t make much sense.

Either way, we both agree the contract and health are plenty good enough reasons to not trade for the guy.
If getting better in the playoffs is the goal, trading for a guy that is a playoff drag isn’t smart. Which makes that stat very applicable. Nothing about his game increases scoring chances. He hangs around the outside. He will help keep possession of the puck but we don’t need more help with that.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Winston-Salem NC
Comparing Ehlers to Necas, I think Ehlers is actually the more consistently dynamic player. I think he creates scoring chances more consistently. I think he’s better with the puck. He’s had injury issues the previous few years before playing a full season here recently but his pts dropped off a little bit. Hard to say why they did as I don’t know his usage there very well but he’s only 28 so I don’t think he’s hit his downturn. They are similar players in that they’re both very fast and can do a lot of solo work. I think Ehlers is better defensively.

The issue is he’s three years older and one year away from ufa. So unless we’re signing him to a contract prior to the trade (unlikely) it’s moving Necas for a rental. It’s a win for Winni just because of that, and also because Necas gets hurt less generally speaking.
Yep. Biggest reason why Mattheson from Montreal is a complete non-starter for me in any Necas trade as well, though he at least has 2 years rather than 1. You don't trade a star player that the other team is likely to sign for the next 8 years without the best piece in the deal coming with a similar level of team control.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
Jun 30, 2011
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Raleigh and Chapel Hill, NC
I don't know why no one is talking about him, but Gabe Vilardi feels like a great fit as a Necas trade target. Similar amount of team control, same right shot, same age, somewhat less dynamic offensively but simultaneously stronger defensively as a trade-off. If I was trading with Winnipeg, he would be my target.
 

User13452

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Jan 7, 2022
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Zegras just feels like the left handed version of necas.

Little to no defense, no real structured team play, and destined to be a 4th liner in the playoffs
Pass on zegras he’s just a name that people overrate. If anything he’s a downgrade from necas ducks would need to add more

I don't know why no one is talking about him, but Gabe Vilardi feels like a great fit as a Necas trade target. Similar amount of team control, same right shot, same age, somewhat less dynamic offensively but simultaneously stronger defensively as a trade-off. If I was trading with Winnipeg, he would be my target.
I like Vilardi but he’s yet to prove he can play a full 82 games or close to it. Seems to be injured a lot
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
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Sabres fan. It seems like Buffalo and Carolina are poor trading partners, since Buffalo wants to deal futures and Carolina may not be interested in futures.

That said, Kotkaniemi might be a good fit in Buffalo. Would Carolina be interested in a 1st for him, as the starting point of a trade? It might give Carolina more ammunition to acquire a player they need.

Thanks!
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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Sabres fan. It seems like Buffalo and Carolina are poor trading partners, since Buffalo wants to deal futures and Carolina may not be interested in futures.

That said, Kotkaniemi might be a good fit in Buffalo. Would Carolina be interested in a 1st for him, as the starting point of a trade? It might give Carolina more ammunition to acquire a player they need.

Thanks!
Interested in us getting a first for him? I doubt that happens. I would be surprised if his value is even a 3rd rounder. But ill take it if you’re offering!
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Sabres fan. It seems like Buffalo and Carolina are poor trading partners, since Buffalo wants to deal futures and Carolina may not be interested in futures.

That said, Kotkaniemi might be a good fit in Buffalo. Would Carolina be interested in a 1st for him, as the starting point of a trade? It might give Carolina more ammunition to acquire a player they need.

Thanks!
KK is definitely not worth that much, wouldn't mind seeing him on Buffalo since he could play a shutdown #3C role for you guys. He can still be a good player imo, just not a great fit here right now since we have like 3 guys that could play the 3C role when what we really need is a #2.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,371
18,157
North Carolina
Would much rather fill the hole Necas leaves through a separate deal or signing if that’s how it has to go down.
It would have to almost certainly via trade (if we trade Necas for futures) because that UFA class of forwards is pretty poor if you're looking for a Top 6 guy.
KK is definitely not worth that much,
NotOpie, do not have a Chris Terry moment....fight it.....save yourself.....
 

Anton Dubinchuk

aho
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Jul 18, 2010
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KK has 2 “worths” right now.

I’m still pretty solidly in the camp that he will live up to his contract in the long run, and the upside he has the ability to provide on that contract could easily make him worth a 1st (probably not 1st in the range of Buffalo’s, but…)

For this offseason, for the Canes, however… it sure would be great to have an extra $4m to play around with, and that makes the Canes more likely to part with him for less.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
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Cair Paravel
Interested in us getting a first for him? I doubt that happens. I would be surprised if his value is even a 3rd rounder. But ill take it if you’re offering!

KK is definitely not worth that much, wouldn't mind seeing him on Buffalo since he could play a shutdown #3C role for you guys. He can still be a good player imo, just not a great fit here right now since we have like 3 guys that could play the 3C role when what we really need is a #2.
Thanks for the feedback!
 

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