Roster Building (& Training Camp) XXIII: Re-signings, Re-considerations, Recriminations

[Perratrooper]

Would the Canes be interested a re-signed Rantanen and if so, what sort of package would the Canes consider giving up?

 

[spockBokk]

Would the Canes be interested a re-signed Rantanen and if so, what sort of package would the Canes consider giving up?

If you’re asking if the Canes would consider giving up Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen, then I think you’d be disappointed. The point of acquiring a player such as Rantanen would be to add to the Canes’ forwards, not subtract key pieces. That’s not to say that I think the Avs would consider Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen as fair value, I just don’t see that sort of deal in the cards.

The Canes have a ton of futures, so that would be the currency and any prospect it named Nikishin would likely be on the table. But again, a signed Rantanen is worth a lot more than what the Canes could offer id say with Nikishin off the table.

All that said, I think Rantanen would be a piece the Canes went after hard if he made it to UFA, but not sure there’s a fit in terms of a trade.

 

[Svechhammer]

Would the Canes be interested a re-signed Rantanen and if so, what sort of package would the Canes consider giving up?

Would you be willing to talk about Necas + any pick or prospect not named Nikishin for him? We got a kid absolutely blowing up in the KHL right now that could end up being a A+ prospect that we would probably be ok with parting with as long as Rants was the return.

Personally, I don't think I would do it from your end for what we'd be willing to give up. But then again, we do have a pretty good prospect pool and if you're looking to kick start a rebuild or short term reload, we do have a bit to offer

 

[Discipline Daddy]

If you’re asking if the Canes would consider giving up Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen, then I think you’d be disappointed. The point of acquiring a player such as Rantanen would be to add to the Canes’ forwards, not subtract key pieces. That’s not to say that I think the Avs would consider Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen as fair value, I just don’t see that sort of deal in the cards.

The Canes have a ton of futures, so that would be the currency and any prospect it named Nikishin would likely be on the table. But again, a signed Rantanen is worth a lot more than what the Canes could offer id say with Nikishin off the table.

All that said, I think Rantanen would be a piece the Canes went after hard if he made it to UFA, but not sure there’s a fit in terms of a trade.

Rantanen is going to require $14M or $15M to extend. I just don't think the Hurricanes can make that work in our team construction. We pay too much of a premium for good depth players. I love Rantanen and he might be the best player on our team if we acquire him. He also wouldn't play the minutes here he does in Colorado.

 

[Perratrooper]

If you’re asking if the Canes would consider giving up Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen, then I think you’d be disappointed. The point of acquiring a player such as Rantanen would be to add to the Canes’ forwards, not subtract key pieces. That’s not to say that I think the Avs would consider Necas or Jarvis for Rantanen as fair value, I just don’t see that sort of deal in the cards.

The Canes have a ton of futures, so that would be the currency and any prospect it named Nikishin would likely be on the table. But again, a signed Rantanen is worth a lot more than what the Canes could offer id say with Nikishin off the table.

All that said, I think Rantanen would be a piece the Canes went after hard if he made it to UFA, but not sure there’s a fit in terms of a trade.

Great in-sight, not just from you but everyone who has replied. It’s great to get real feedback from other fanbases!

Completely fair, as an outside I wasn’t sure if Canes fans would want to try and consolidate assets (high end forward+prospects/picks) to get a player that has performed more consistently at 100 point level. If players like Jarvis, Necas and Svech are off the table or only would be considered in a one for one with no prospect or pick consideration there likely wouldn’t be a trade to be made as you suggested.

That’s not to say the Canes don’t have some intriguing prospects, more so that given the current window it would be difficult to not get a top 6 forward back in a Rantanen trade.

Appreciate the feedback everyone and good luck with the season!

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Great in-sight, not just from you but everyone who has replied. It’s great to get real feedback from other fanbases!

Completely fair, as an outside I wasn’t sure if Canes fans would want to try and consolidate assets (high end forward+prospects/picks) to get a player that has performed more consistently at 100 point level. If players like Jarvis, Necas and Svech are off the table or only would be considered in a one for one with no prospect or pick consideration there likely wouldn’t be a trade to be made as you suggested.

That’s not to say the Canes don’t have some intriguing prospects, more so that given the current window it would be difficult to not get a top 6 forward back in a Rantanen trade.

Appreciate the feedback everyone and good luck with the season!

Don't get us wrong. Rants is 100% a player we would love on the team (duh) but his new cap hit + the cost to get him just likely doesn't make sense for Carolina. Paying anyone more than Aho (which Rants obviously deserves to be) will require very special circumstances and just isn't part of the teams m/o.

No team has won the cup in the cap era with a player making MORE than $10 mil right? Eichel, Bob, Barkov would be the 3 that have won it making $10m AAV I believe.

 

[Perratrooper]

Don't get us wrong. Rants is 100% a player we would love on the team (duh) but his new cap hit + the cost to get him just likely doesn't make sense for Carolina. Paying anyone more than Aho (which Rants obviously deserves to be) will require very special circumstances and just isn't part of the teams m/o.

No team has won the cup in the cap era with a player making MORE than $10 mil right? Eichel, Bob, Barkov would be the 3 that have won it making $10m AAV I believe.

Oh I get it, Colorado already has a $12m+ player with two more (Makar and Mikko) coming up soon. So I get not wanting to allocate $12-14m.

With that being said, I think viewing contracts as a percent of cap rather than cap hit as a more accurate indicator. For example, Stone and Tkachuk both make $9.5m so the $10m cut off comes off as arbitrary to me.

At the end of the day, if Mikko get’s $12.5m the question becomes does the average player making $5m make up the difference between Mikko and a $7m player like Jarvis and does the cost certainty and player control of an extended Rantanen make the difference up between Necas and the $6m.

I think as you and other fans have alluded to, there probably isn’t a trade to make. Fun to talk about regardless though.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Oh I get it, Colorado already has a $12m+ player with two more (Makar and Mikko) coming up soon. So I get not wanting to allocate $12-14m.

With that being said, I think viewing contracts as a percent of cap rather than cap hit as a more accurate indicator. For example, Stone and Tkachuk both make $9.5m so the $10m cut off comes off as arbitrary to me.

At the end of the day, if Mikko get’s $12.5m the question becomes does the average player making $5m make up the difference between Mikko and a $7m player like Jarvis and does the cost certainty and player control of an extended Rantanen make the difference up between Necas and the $6m.

I think as you and other fans have alluded to, there probably isn’t a trade to make. Fun to talk about regardless though.

Ya, agree with you on the cap % thing but it’s exactly that cut and dry. Some players/agents use % to set the market and some use a dollar amount.

Like those $10m contracts are based off a flat number and not cap %. They wanted that number because it was important for them to be $10m players and there is something associated with that.

Anyway, we know the number for Rants is gonna be big and every team wants to avoid a Leafs ‘big 4’ type situation where you have a handful of guys taking up half your cap so Mikko probably goes to a team where he’s the guy or is 1-2 with another stud which is what was going on in Colorado until Makar came along

 

[WreckingCrew]

Oh I get it, Colorado already has a $12m+ player with two more (Makar and Mikko) coming up soon. So I get not wanting to allocate $12-14m.

With that being said, I think viewing contracts as a percent of cap rather than cap hit as a more accurate indicator. For example, Stone and Tkachuk both make $9.5m so the $10m cut off comes off as arbitrary to me.

At the end of the day, if Mikko get’s $12.5m the question becomes does the average player making $5m make up the difference between Mikko and a $7m player like Jarvis and does the cost certainty and player control of an extended Rantanen make the difference up between Necas and the $6m.

I think as you and other fans have alluded to, there probably isn’t a trade to make. Fun to talk about regardless though.

Yea I think the biggest hurdle is that next contract...the number of teams that need a guy like Rants + have $12M+ cap space + are competitive enough he'd be willing to sign long-term with is very limited, so why not just wait until he's a UFA and sign him for "free". Unless Colorado is out at TDL and can work out a sign & trade then my guess is probably a mid-pick before UFA for exclusive negotiating rights (like Guentz last year with TBL)

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I would consider Rants in free agency but not a trade unless it was close to or less than what we gave up for Guentzel. Necas, Jarvis, Koko even, Nikishin, Artamonov all off the table IMO

 

[robbieberns]

Necas playing the most efficient hockey of his career and being a true play driving high impact guy on a second line with two dudes who play simple and direct games has me really thinking differently about how we build the top 6 out moving forward. Ideally we could land on a higher skilled version of Robinson to upgrade that line, but ultimately think Necas is good enough that we should prioritize someone complimentary to him and that will allow play to continue running through him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think Rants is a phenomenal player, would be the best player on our team, but the contract he will command in free agency will be incompatible with building a decent team around him in the long term. He’ll be 30 at the start of the deal… don’t be a sucker.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think you still build a team down the middle. If you’re going to pay someone the kind of money they talk about with Rants I’d really prefer it to be a center.

 

[Ole Gil]

Those 13 or 14 million contracts are so scary, because if they "only" play at a 70-80 point pace, you're overpaying them by 5 million which is pretty costly. If it drops down to 60, it's an 8 million overpay.

You better be sure they're putting up 100+ for a long time. And Colorado is such a run and gun offense with a bunch of skill players that don't seem to worried about defense, which probably inflates the stats a bit. And the contract starts at 30 and goes for 8 years.

I don't think Carolina is in a place where they need to take that risk.