Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[LokiDog]

I don't see why Buffalo does that 1-1. GM's will value players differently than fans, but all GM's should see that he hasn't really taken a step forward. Byram has at least taken a step in the right direction. I look at the right side and I'm not sure Schneider helps it that much, especially when Byram was also rotated and played steady next to Dahlin, despite not being able to do that with Girard in Colorado. I think they want a legit top 4 RD here if they move Byram. Schneider would feel more like crossing fingers.

Byram played the left with Dahlin on the right. They want Dahlin and Power both on the left. Also never underestimate the old school “big tough defensive D” stereotype that people place on Schneider - we watch him nonstop and don’t agree with it, but people constantly talk about him that way - Buffalo may say we’ve got 3 great skating, offensive minded lefties who should be playing top 4 minutes and need a solid, physical D to play the right side. Power isn’t going anywhere. 1OA, locked up long term with too much untapped potential. Byram had a solid year on Buffalo, next to Dahlin, in front of bad goaltending. He’d be great with Fox in front of Shesterkin.

In my opinion, he is the type of player we need. Yes, a legitimate shutdown type of LD would be nice as well, but this team doesn’t have a skating threat or mobile offensive threat on the backend and hasn’t in a while. The offense is very stale. Adding an entire element that hasn’t existed and can play 20+ minutes will help that. Miller doesn’t have the same acumen even though he can skate. Byram is 23 and a former 4OA who last year played 82 games, 22 minutes a night, was a +20 on a terrible team, was 15th in EV strength scoring for all D, I think was 20th in the NHL in total minutes. He’s a thoroughbred who is just about to enter his prime.

I feel like the conversations we’re having about Byram right now are going to mirror the ones we were having about Bennett 5 years ago. “Bust”, “not what we need”, “doesn’t help”. Obviously no one knows for sure, but I’m pretty positive we’ll watch Byram get traded for a Schneider-ish return and in 3 years revisionists will say we should have traded for him when we had the chance.

 

[bleedblue94]

Because Byram isnt going to sign a long term deal in Buffalo. and they already have 2 LD they drafted and have invested more in. There's a reason he's being shopped. How much should they expect to get for an unsigned RFA? Schneider has value because its hard to find young players on the right side who dont miss games and have played 40+ playoff games before turning 24.

And you/they know Schneider would sign in Buffalo long term?

I remain unconvinced that borgen is 100 percent going to be here in the fall. Probably 85-90 percent yes, but with his term he would be attractive to a team like buffalo. Just something to think about.

 

[TGWL]

Because Byram isnt going to sign a long term deal in Buffalo. and they already have 2 LD they drafted and have invested more in. There's a reason he's being shopped. How much should they expect to get for an unsigned RFA? Schneider has value because its hard to find young players on the right side who dont miss games and have played 40+ playoff games before turning 24.

Nobody said Schneider doesn't have value. Schneider has played 40+ playoff games because NYR have played 40+ playoff games. He's average 14mins through-out those 40+ games. I think if Buffalo is moving Byram in a 1-1, then want more of a sure thing for their right side.

 

[McRanger92]

Thats wonderful, but it's also one season. He avoids contact like the plague and thats understandable given his history, but it's not really a good thing.

I'd also argue that he doesn't fit a need. He plays a position where they have a need but he isn't really the type of player they should be adding.

It's so easy to be hypnotized by the skating that it makes it easy to ignore all of the warts that have existed in his game since he stepped into the league. He cannot defend. At all.

Unless your goal is to just try to out offense everyone he isn't really a fit. I'd look elsewhere for defensive help.

There are no perfect players. The metrics dont say he is a liability on defense. Our team is also horrible offensively because we can't get the puck out of our zone or into the opponents zone, 2 things Byram is quite good at. Byram and Dahlin have been pretty great defensively. Bodes well for a Byram-Fox pair if thats how it shakes out.

 

[McRanger92]

And you/they know Schneider would sign in Buffalo long term?

I remain unconvinced that borgen is 100 percent going to be here in the fall. Probably 85-90 percent yes, but with his term he would be attractive to a team like buffalo. Just something to think about.

Didnt Buffalo already trade Borgen once before?

 

[bleedblue94]

Thats wonderful, but it's also one season. He avoids contact like the plague and thats understandable given his history, but it's not really a good thing.

I'd also argue that he doesn't fit a need. He plays a position where they have a need but he isn't really the type of player they should be adding.

It's so easy to be hypnotized by the skating that it makes it easy to ignore all of the warts that have existed in his game since he stepped into the league. He cannot defend. At all.

Unless your goal is to just try to out offense everyone he isn't really a fit. I'd look elsewhere for defensive help.

I know we have not always agreed on everything but this post is 100% target.

 

[bleedblue94]

Didnt Buffalo already trade Borgen once before?

He played 14 games for them prior to the expansion draft.

 

[McRanger92]

Who is the answer on defense? I dont see a lot out there. At least Byram has potential and is coming off a good season.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There are no perfect players. The metrics dont say he is a liability on defense. Our team is also horrible offensively because we can't get the puck out of our zone or into the opponents zone, 2 things Byram is quite good at. Byram and Dahlin have been pretty great defensively. Bodes well for a Byram-Fox pair if thats how it shakes out.

They do. @Machinehead can make heads explode by posting his EVW chart but I'll drop the spoiler alert, they aren't good and they're pretty bad away from Dahlin and Dahlin's worst defensive impacts come with him as a partner.

I did a dive into him a few months ago and really just pulled like a few weeks worth of shit and it was ugly AF. All of it was from when he was getting reps with Power and it was just a comedy of errors (mostly his.)

 

[McRanger92]

And you/they know Schneider would sign in Buffalo long term?

I remain unconvinced that borgen is 100 percent going to be here in the fall. Probably 85-90 percent yes, but with his term he would be attractive to a team like buffalo. Just something to think about.

Idk if Schneider will signed there but he is signed for next season and Byram isnt.

 

[JohnC]

RB gatekeeping 6-1 vs 6-2 is peak. He’s turning into a girl on Tinder before our eyes.

 

[bleedblue94]

Borgen and Soucy are big but everyone hates them. Cant we just get good players? Kandre Miller is enormous. Bo Byram is 6'1 205. Thats not small. Youve said this and I agree but its a systems and coaching issue. Kulikov, Mikkola, even Forsling were nobodies until they got to Florida. OEL's career was on life support.

Kulikov was always a mule but he had injuries for years before he got to Florida. Mikkola was always fine but absolutely took another step in Florida. Forsling is the X factor. OEL was fine for what he was but his contract caused him to he asked to do more than he could anymore (he regressed at a young age) but he was slotted right in Florida and he was actually one of the leafs best d this year.

All of those players can skate and are willing to use their size. Soucy won't use his size. I'm not looking to run borgen out of here but given the choice of moving borgen or Schneider I move borgen hands down, and when you're talking about a trade with buffalo players with term are extremely important to that org. Probably most important to Buffalo and Winnipeg through the entire league.

 

[bleedblue94]

RB gatekeeping 6-1 vs 6-2 is peak. He’s turning into a girl on Tinder before our eyes.

Knock it off. @RangerBoy contributes more quality to this board than 80 percent of the other posters.

 

[McRanger92]

They do. @Machinehead can make heads explode by posting his EVW chart but I'll drop the spoiler alert, they aren't good and they're pretty bad away from Dahlin and Dahlin's worst defensive impacts come with him as a partner.

I did a dive into him a few months ago and really just pulled like a few weeks worth of shit and it was ugly AF. All of it was from when he was getting reps with Power and it was just a comedy of errors (mostly his.)

I dont have access to the good stuff so Id like to see the charts. The tape doesn't look bad to me and what was publicly available didn't look like the red light district on the defensive side.

 

[LokiDog]

They do. @Machinehead can make heads explode by posting his EVW chart but I'll drop the spoiler alert, they aren't good and they're pretty bad away from Dahlin and Dahlin's worst defensive impacts come with him as a partner.

I did a dive into him a few months ago and really just pulled like a few weeks worth of shit and it was ugly AF. All of it was from when he was getting reps with Power and it was just a comedy of errors (mostly his.)

You’re also talking about a 23 year old paired with a 21 year old on a dumpster fire team. No goaltending, poor roster construction, stupidly young, no coaching. Fox played with who all year? Byram is ginormous upgrade over any partner Fox had last season and, while a dumpster fire for a few months, this isn’t the perpetual circus that Buffalo is. If we’re basing the arguments for/against Byram on charts, I’m going to sit this one out. I watch him play and see a 23 year old D man who looks ready to break out who I would love to see opposite Fox.

He also should be on the left all the time. With Girard in Colorado and with Power in Buffalo he played the right. With Dahlin, he played left but Dahlin was the rover on that pairing.

“Some of Byram’s early-season inconsistencies can be attributed to his position. Paired with Samuel Girard, he moved to his right side, despite being a natural left shot.

“It makes it difficult in the offensive zone picking up pucks off the wall,” he said. “In the neutral zone, you’re always turning to your uncomfortable side, you’re always on your bad leg crossing over. It just makes things kind of weird. … It’s hard to read the ice over your shoulder all the time.” Now he is back on the left, which he said is a breath of fresh air. “I feel really comfortable over there,” he said.

 

[bleedblue94]

Idk if Schneider will signed there but he is signed for next season and Byram isnt.

Too short sited a view for buffalo. They would be trading themselves right back into another Byram situation. You realize Byram had more term when they traded for him than Schneider does at this point.

 

[McRanger92]

You’re also talking about a 23 year old paired with a 21 year old on a dumpster fire team. Fox played with who all year? Byram is ginormous upgrade over any partner Fox had last season and, while a dumpster fire for a few months, this isn’t the perpetual circus that Buffalo is. If we’re basing the arguments for/against Byram on charts, I’m going to sit this one out. I watch him play and see a 23 year old D man who looks ready to break out who I would love to see opposite Fox.

I see the same.

 

[LokiDog]

Gavrikov will be 30 soon after the season starts. He’s a physical defensive D. We’re better off giving him 7x8?

 

[NYR Viper]

Byram played the left with Dahlin on the right. They want Dahlin and Power both on the left. Also never underestimate the old school “big tough defensive D” stereotype that people place on Schneider - we watch him nonstop and don’t agree with it, but people constantly talk about him that way - Buffalo may say we’ve got 3 great skating, offensive minded lefties who should be playing top 4 minutes and need a solid, physical D to play the right side. Power isn’t going anywhere. 1OA, locked up long term with too much untapped potential. Byram had a solid year on Buffalo, next to Dahlin, in front of bad goaltending. He’d be great with Fox in front of Shesterkin.

In my opinion, he is the type of player we need. Yes, a legitimate shutdown type of LD would be nice as well, but this team doesn’t have a skating threat or mobile offensive threat on the backend and hasn’t in a while. The offense is very stale. Adding an entire element that hasn’t existed and can play 20+ minutes will help that. Miller doesn’t have the same acumen even though he can skate. Byram is 23 and a former 4OA who last year played 82 games, 22 minutes a night, was a +20 on a terrible team, was 15th in EV strength scoring for all D, I think was 20th in the NHL in total minutes. He’s a thoroughbred who is just about to enter his prime.

I feel like the conversations we’re having about Byram right now are going to mirror the ones we were having about Bennett 5 years ago. “Bust”, “not what we need”, “doesn’t help”. Obviously no one knows for sure, but I’m pretty positive we’ll watch Byram get traded for a Schneider-ish return and in 3 years revisionists will say we should have traded for him when we had the chance.

I think Byram would 100% help, but my concerns are:
What he costs to acquire
His injury history (head injuries are different than other body parts)
His next contract

If the deal is Schneider for Byram then I'm in.

If the cost is Lafreniere for Byram, I'm out.

If he wants a long term deal, 7 years @ $8m, then I'm less keen. If he would take 7 years @ $7m I'm more amenable.

His injury history really scares me a bit. We just dealt with similar concerns with Chytil.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Knock it off. @RangerBoy contributes more to this board than 80 percent of the other posters.

listen, rangerboy is an OG, but making fun of his weird mannerisms itsnt exactly new. they come in new forms as the years go on but it’s fairly consistent. first he was larry brooks, then he was a robot. Now hes a girl on tinder

 

[McRanger92]

I think Byram would 100% help, but my concerns are:
What he costs to acquire
His injury history (head injuries are different than other body parts)
His next contract

If the deal is Schneider for Byram then I'm in.

If the cost is Lafreniere for Byram, I'm out.

If he wants a long term deal, 7 years @ $8m, then I'm less keen. If he would take 7 years @ $7m I'm more amenable.

His injury history really scares me a bit. We just dealt with similar concerns with Chytil.

If the Rangers can get Peterka & Byram, I'm open to a lot of possibilities trade package-wise. I also like McLeod. This team needs good skaters.

 

[NYR Viper]

Gavrikov will be 30 soon after the season starts. He’s a physical defensive D. We’re better off giving him 7x8?

But that's not really the argument. The argument would be:

Gavrikov + Schneider + _________ for Byram

That's why UFA's are so attractive, They don't immediately detract from the roster

 

[LokiDog]

But that's not really the argument. The argument would be:

Gavrikov + Schneider + _________ for Byram

That's why UFA's are so attractive, They don't immediately detract from the roster

There’s a price to signing 30 year olds to long term contracts too and we keep paying it. I don’t think that the price for Byram is as high as people think, and I don’t know that it’s Schneider, that’s just us speculating because of the fit. If it is Schneider, I doubt the plus is large, personally. Each player addresses a need for the other team and Byram has the upside to make it a worthwhile move, IMO.

 

[LokiDog]

Also Byram played 73 and 82 games the past two years (some people glance and see 55 18 82 but the 55 and 18 are the same year).

That’s 155 games out of 164 possible. Chytil played 140 over the past 3 seasons. 246 possible. Byram’s injuries concerns are over blown.

 

[Machinehead]

I guess I'll post the chart?

He is really bad defensively. Like, there's really no way around that.

His numbers away from Dahlin are bad, but granted, when he's not with Dahlin, he's playing for the Buffalo Sabres without Dahlin. On the other hand, the Rangers without Fox aren't much better than the Sabres without Dahlin so there's that.

Here's the thing: I don't always care that much about defense. Fox is good at defense. We really need a guy that can move the puck.

I don't hate Byram and I would kind of take the wait and see approach if we got him but there are valid criticisms, and yes, he's bad at defending.