Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[NYR Viper]

hahahahahaha

I want our second round pick back. Horrendous unecessary trade.

I will keep saying this so here goes:

Soucy was a good player in Seattle. He signed in Vancouver and it just didn't fit. He came to NY and played very well in his short stint (16 games).

People harp on how Florida has been able to find these big rangy d-men and pay them peanuts to play a physical game and protect the front of the net. Kulikov and Mikkola were not sexy signings for them. Kulikov specifically was signed for next to nothing prior to this latest contract. Those are big guys who don't have 'eye-popping' stats but fit with how they want to play and they play physical games. They help that team be a PIA to play against and they protect the front of their net well.

I'm not saying Soucy will be a top-4 guy here but I am curious to see if he can be this teams version of MIkkola/Kulikov who still aren't tat great but fit well in that system and their roles.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, while I'm very critical of the Rangers, and I'm right to do that, I think the whole conference is finding that they're just nowhere near as good as Florida.

 

[SA16]

I will keep saying this so here goes:

Soucy was a good player in Seattle. He signed in Vancouver and it just didn't fit. He came to NY and played very well in his short stint (16 games).

People harp on how Florida has been able to find these big rangy d-men and pay them peanuts to play a physical game and protect the front of the net. Kulikov and Mikkola were not sexy signings for them. Kulikov specifically was signed for next to nothing prior to this latest contract. Those are big guys who don't have 'eye-popping' stats but fit with how they want to play and they play physical games. They help that team be a PIA to play against and they protect the front of their net well.

I'm not saying Soucy will be a top-4 guy here but I am curious to see if he can be this teams version of MIkkola/Kulikov who still aren't tat great but fit well in that system and their roles.

Soucy's results as a Ranger last year were very good. Doesn't necessarily mean they will continue to be (though everyone seemed to think that for de Haan based on 3 games). The problem is everyone came in with preconceived notions declaring him bad, because the often poor models that fluctuate like crazy rated him poorly last year, and nobody will ever change their mind to the contrary. I bet those same people would have a totally different opinion had his season been reversed (i.e. his first 16 games been with the Rangers where he had a 54 CF%, 53 xG% and then been traded when his numbers looked great).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think if we're going to make fun of Carolina for anything, it should be for trading a way a guy who has been f***ing insane in the playoffs (and continues to be insane) because they want to continue to be what they've been the last half decade.

I gave them credit for trading for Guentzel (it didn't work out, but was the right move and that iteration of the Canes was good enough to win) and for making the ballsy move to trade for Rantanen (and they paid quite the price for him.) Moving him because he didn't want to play for them beyond this year was dumb. Nice return sure, but a motivated AF Rantanen would have been a massive difference maker for them (yes, one big enough to possibly take down the vaunted Panthers.)

They function in perpetuity like a team that makes an unexpected run in the playoffs years ahead of schedule when the truth is they've been in their window for a while now (and are honestly in the back end of it.) If you keep thinking big picture (3-4 years down the line) you're just signing up for chasing your end goal instead of it being an actual destination.

I don't know what their situation is cap wise but they're a team that should throw a bag at Marner.

Analytically? We know what they've been. Even last year when they faced the Rangers most of the analytics people who know whats up said that it would end up being quality vs quantity and didn't really give one team the edge over the other despite the models slanting heavily towards the Canes.

Quality won out. It usually does especially when the goalies played for who they played for.

 

[Vitto79]

Any real rumors or are we just spinning our wheels with beat writer slop until the Cup is awarded?

Nothing real to report till after the playoffs im sure

 

[JohnC]

Carolina also lives way too deep in the JAG goalies winning Cups spectrum.

 

[MrAlmost]

I would not even have an issue if the team ran a D of:

Miller-Fox
Soucy-Borgen
Vaak-Schneider
De Haan

De Haan is a good #7. He is right when he says the regular stats don't look great but the fancy ones tell a different story. He has been a guy for years that plays good minutes on the 3rd pair when needed. He should be brought back. It's finally a 7th that wouldn't be negative value and we seemingly f***ed it up.

I don't know if that D can win, but I do know that Miller and Fox played comically good together and that Soucy and Borgen, when they were on an actually good team with proper coach and system, played well.

People laughed at Florida's D at the start of their cup season. Some were even still questioning it at the start of this 1. Sometimes guys just get into a style that works and everything and everyone just runs. Doesn't always need to be 6 allstars.

 

[haohmaru]

I think if we're going to make fun of Carolina for anything, it should be for trading a way a guy who has been f***ing insane in the playoffs (and continues to be insane) because they want to continue to be what they've been the last half decade.

I gave them credit for trading for Guentzel (it didn't work out, but was the right move and that iteration of the Canes was good enough to win) and for making the ballsy move to trade for Rantanen (and they paid quite the price for him.) Moving him because he didn't want to play for them beyond this year was dumb. Nice return sure, but a motivated AF Rantanen would have been a massive difference maker for them (yes, one big enough to possibly take down the vaunted Panthers.)

They function in perpetuity like a team that makes an unexpected run in the playoffs years ahead of schedule when the truth is they've been in their window for a while now (and are honestly in the back end of it.) If you keep thinking big picture (3-4 years down the line) you're just signing up for chasing your end goal instead of it being an actual destination.

I don't know what their situation is cap wise but they're a team that should throw a bag at Marner.

Analytically? We know what they've been. Even last year when they faced the Rangers most of the analytics people who know whats up said that it would end up being quality vs quantity and didn't really give one team the edge over the other despite the models slanting heavily towards the Canes.

Quality won out. It usually does especially when the goalies played for who they played for.

The question I have about analytics - particularly when it comes to a team like Carolina is this:

Is this more about the quality of the players on the team or is it more about dedication to playing a particular way, consistently, every game?

Seems like a lot of it is about not having bad habits and working hard.

 

[TGWL]

How does a guy like that bounce around? He always stood out as incredibly skilled on the Canucks.

Developed a rep for being lazy and floating.
He had a great season, then started a meh season, got traded and finished strong. Then started slow again with a meh season, got traded and finished strong. In both meh, slow starts, his ice time dropped. It seems to either be a problem when he gets too comfortable on a team, coaching, or something rubbing people the wrong way.

 

[TGWL]

Would Rangers fans be at all interested in Girard from Colorado? 27 with 2 years left at $5m.

There's a rumor floating around, or at least a "thought" that NYR would try and get McDonagh from Tampa to alleviate some cap for them. I would prefer that route over spending assets to get Girard for 2 years. I don't hate the idea of Girard, but NYR aren't Colorado, and I think he'll have a harder time here.

 

[Machinehead]

The question I have about analytics - particularly when it comes to a team like Carolina is this:

Is this more about the quality of the players on the team or is it more about dedication to playing a particular way, consistently, every game?

Seems like a lot of it is about not having bad habits and working hard.

I would say it indicates more so good habits. A mix of good habits and talent is needed.

Although it's getting to the point where Florida is turning into a grey blob society.

 

[TGWL]

I will keep saying this so here goes:

Soucy was a good player in Seattle. He signed in Vancouver and it just didn't fit. He came to NY and played very well in his short stint (16 games).

People harp on how Florida has been able to find these big rangy d-men and pay them peanuts to play a physical game and protect the front of the net. Kulikov and Mikkola were not sexy signings for them. Kulikov specifically was signed for next to nothing prior to this latest contract. Those are big guys who don't have 'eye-popping' stats but fit with how they want to play and they play physical games. They help that team be a PIA to play against and they protect the front of their net well.

I'm not saying Soucy will be a top-4 guy here but I am curious to see if he can be this teams version of MIkkola/Kulikov who still aren't tat great but fit well in that system and their roles.

It's easier to play defense, stand up at the line, and play with better gap control when your team isn't a circus act on the rink. With that said, I still don't like Soucy. Mikkola showed signs of having tangible value to the team but got ripped on because he wasn't laying out players. Soucy hasn't showed any reason to keep him.

 

[RangersFan1994]

its a shame Rangers have too many bad contracts and 5th 6th 7th dman on the roster






Go get Byram

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The question I have about analytics - particularly when it comes to a team like Carolina is this:

Is this more about the quality of the players on the team or is it more about dedication to playing a particular way, consistently, every game?

Seems like a lot of it is about not having bad habits and working hard.

Yeah for sure, but they've also been doing this with a roster full of players who are mostly pretty good to good. Aho is probably the only mainstay there who I'd categorize as above that (they had Guentzel too last year so yeah, that was 2 on the roster.) They never really went out and got a guy who can drive the bus until this year and they traded that guy away after a month.

 

[TGWL]

its a shame Rangers have too many bad contracts and 5th 6th 7th dman on the roster






Go get Byram

Fans aren't going to like what we have to trade.

 

[Machinehead]

its a shame Rangers have too many bad contracts and 5th 6th 7th dman on the roster






Go get Byram

I'm not saying don't do it but this board is super gunshy on K'Andre Miller as it is.

Byram is Miller except he makes more mistakes, has less size, and is just a little bit worse.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don’t know if Byram is the guy the hitch the wagon to on the left side, depends on what the cost is.

 

[bl02]

We have our second.

A third went in that trade. I'd like it back too.

yep I know it was the third we got for R; Smith which is basically a late 2nd because it was San Jose's pick if I am not mistaken? And San Jose sucked this year so it's the first pick of the third round.

 

[bl02]

I don’t know if Byram is the guy the hitch the wagon to on the left side, depends on what the cost is.

great another guy with history of concussions. What's the over under until he gets his first concussion here? 28 games?

 

[tlk]

Nevermind the glorification of Staple's clickbait, why is Mikkola on 2.5 mil while Soucy is on 3.25?

 

[RangersFan1994]

Fans aren't going to like what we have to trade.

That depends. If they want Cuylle, no thanks. If they want Lafy. Maybe Lafy for Byram, and Benson?

 

[bl02]

I will keep saying this so here goes:

Soucy was a good player in Seattle. He signed in Vancouver and it just didn't fit. He came to NY and played very well in his short stint (16 games).

People harp on how Florida has been able to find these big rangy d-men and pay them peanuts to play a physical game and protect the front of the net. Kulikov and Mikkola were not sexy signings for them. Kulikov specifically was signed for next to nothing prior to this latest contract. Those are big guys who don't have 'eye-popping' stats but fit with how they want to play and they play physical games. They help that team be a PIA to play against and they protect the front of their net well.

I'm not saying Soucy will be a top-4 guy here but I am curious to see if he can be this teams version of MIkkola/Kulikov who still aren't tat great but fit well in that system and their roles.

I hope you are right and I am not sure what the stats are but I don't think he played well at all here. In fact many times he looked like another Nemeth out there.

 

[bl02]

Carolina is the Moneyball NHL team. Great in the regular season but can’t get over the playoff hump.

They just need to play Newark every round and they got their cup

 

[Machinehead]

Nevermind the glorification of Staple's clickbait, why is Mikkola on 2.5 mil while Soucy is on 3.25?

Mikkola alienated himself from what the Rangers are looking for on the back-end by being talented.

 

[Savant]

Nevermind the glorification of Staple's clickbait, why is Mikkola on 2.5 mil while Soucy is on 3.25?

Because Florida has no state income tax so they can sign these guys for cheaper than the majority of the other teams in the league can