Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[RangerBoy]

Every critique of Panarin you see in marner.

Marner costing himself some potential money with this series against the cats

Marner is a much better all around player than Panarin. They share one common theme. Sheepherders. They can get you to the playoffs. That's it. Maybe they score the odd goal here and there in the playoffs. Their playoff performances are lacking. They don't have time and space for the dipsy doodles in the playoffs. Very disappointing in the playoffs. I feel bad for the team giving Marner a seven year contract worth $14m this summer.

 

[RangerBoy]

These people have no clue. Panarin is good. How will the Rangers replace his production? Panarin has a big contract. Drury shouldn't force a confrontation with Mika because you don't want to make him mad.

Panarin's deal is very affordable if you spend two minutes looking it up. What good are the 100 point regular seasons when you fail to win 16 playoff games? I hope we read Drury and Mika had a very confrontational exit meeting which led to Zibanjad's exit from NY this summer when it's leaked to Brooks. You know that's the Garden works.

They failed to mention the real issue with the Rangers. There needs to be a significant change in culture.

I was watching The Point last night before the Panthers-Leafs game. Chris Pronger was discussing how the Panthers always get the puck in deep while ESPN was showing clips of the Panthers doing all of the right things to win playoff games. They forecheck. They know how to retrieve pucks. They know to shot the puck into the zone. They finish every check. Every line plays the same way. They are a physical team. They finish every check. You don't have to send the opposing player into the third row. All of those hits accumulate over a playoff series. They defend. They play a straight and direct game. North and south.

Florida has great depth at center with Barkov, Bennett and Lundell. Marchand has made Lundell's line with Luostarinen even better than it already was.

The Rangers are the opposite. These players refuse to listen. I have my contract. Go away. We are paying you to play and not paying you to play GM. They get upset when management trades a player. They don't understand why. That's not your job. The last two coaches have tried to get this group to forecheck and defend. Good luck. Gallant made the comment that you need more than talent to win. The Rangers aren't a talented team. I am not dumping the puck into the offensive zone. i will try to make a play with the puck here in the neutral zone or at the blue line even though winning hockey is the opposite. I don't care what Quinn. Gallant or Laviolette wanted us to do. Someone else can forecheck and back check as long as my check clears every 15 days.

 

[Kendo]

On the show The Good Place, which is a comedy that asks a lot of philosophical questions, they often refer to a book called What We Owe To Each Other. The premise is exactly this. There’s more to human interaction than the transactional. And while the book itself had some questionable conclusions on the topic, thinking about the title makes me sometimes ask “what *do* we owe to each other?” This piece of this discussion is ultimately about that exact question. People are going to have different answers to it, of course, and that’s fine. It’s what makes a good discussion.

Spot on. Great show.

 

[MrAlmost]

So many teams are gonna be looking to make changes. Trades will be out there. Just gotta hope we find the right ones.

 

[haohmaru]

This off season will be challenging with a dearth of decent UFA's, the cap going up and a weak draft. Lots of pitfalls there for overeager GM's to hand out shitty contracts to average players.

 

[Mac n Gs]

This off season will be challenging with a dearth of decent UFA's, the cap going up and a weak draft. Lots of pitfalls there for overeager GM's to hand out shitty contracts to average players.

The UFA market being as bad as it is is why I'm holding out some hope that Drury will be able to get some of these trades done. Gavrikov is going to stay in LA, and regardless, his projected contract is ridiculous. I'm not losing sleep on missing out on Boeser and/or Marner at their projected price points.

There will be some decent depth, but even those players are likely to be overpaid because of how few options there are. Trades and offer sheets seem more likely than ever with the looming cap increases.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

So many teams are gonna be looking to make changes. Trades will be out there. Just gotta hope we find the right ones.

I think with the cap rise these next two offseasons have the potential to have almost NFL level movement and trades. I think a lot of players who were considered albatrosses before will suddenly look a lot more attractive in trades and it’ll lead to a lot of movement.

 

[TGWL]

Would 8 years at 6.0 per season get it done for Will Cuylle???

If I'm Cuylle, I'd take a 6 year deal before an 8 year deal, unless that number goes up. The cap is rising and he'll have a chance at a longer contract after 6 years.

 

[TGWL]

These people have no clue. Panarin is good. How will the Rangers replace his production? Panarin has a big contract. Drury shouldn't force a confrontation with Mika because you don't want to make him mad.

Panarin's deal is very affordable if you spend two minutes looking it up. What good are the 100 point regular seasons when you fail to win 16 playoff games? I hope we read Drury and Mika had a very confrontational exit meeting which led to Zibanjad's exit from NY this summer when it's leaked to Brooks. You know that's the Garden works.

They failed to mention the real issue with the Rangers. There needs to be a significant change in culture.

I was watching The Point last night before the Panthers-Leafs game. Chris Pronger was discussing how the Panthers always get the puck in deep while ESPN was showing clips of the Panthers doing all of the right things to win playoff games. They forecheck. They know how to retrieve pucks. They know to shot the puck into the zone. They finish every check. Every line plays the same way. They are a physical team. They finish every check. You don't have to send the opposing player into the third row. All of those hits accumulate over a playoff series. They defend. They play a straight and direct game. North and south.

Florida has great depth at center with Barkov, Bennett and Lundell. Marchand has made Lundell's line with Luostarinen even better than it already was.

The Rangers are the opposite. These players refuse to listen. I have my contract. Go away. We are paying you to play and not paying you to play GM. They get upset when management trades a player. They don't understand why. That's not your job. The last two coaches have tried to get this group to forecheck and defend. Good luck. Gallant made the comment that you need more than talent to win. The Rangers aren't a talented team. I am not dumping the puck into the offensive zone. i will try to make a play with the puck here in the neutral zone or at the blue line even though winning hockey is the opposite. I don't care what Quinn. Gallant or Laviolette wanted us to do. Someone else can forecheck and back check as long as my check clears every 15 days.

Well, you still need to make the playoffs. Florida is doing what they do when it comes to star players. Matthews isn't doing much but we'd still pay him if he wanted to come play here. You can't just not play elite players because they won't win you 16 playoff games. You can try to ignore elite players with playoff concerns and hope your core and depth takes you there, but that's very risky. Those players are still needed through-out the season.

But going back to your assessment on Florida, yeah, they play together through-out the entire lineup. They hit the nail on the head during the broadcast last night. While Florida wants to win a series early, they're coached not to go into the series thinking they have enough skill to beat you in 4 or 5 games. They're prepared to go the distance and treat each game like it's going to be a long series. They want to wear you down so that if game 7 happens, you don't have much left in the tank to beat them. Every shift is about wearing you down even more. We can debate that they take so many penalties to the point where it's impossible to blow the whistle every few minutes, but it works for them.

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead[/USER] is right.

Well I like this guy!

In all seriousness, this is an excellent post. I think the players are super important. They're the most talented people in the world. And when I say that, I'm guilty too. Sometimes I'm not nice. I dump on players. I get emotional.

I also think the fans are super important. Without us, there's no reason for them to play. They'll leave the Rangers someday. I won't.

*whispers*
I think the people are really not important are the people who actually suck most of the money out of this product but let's not get me started again.

Within that, there's a relationship between two very important parties, and the question of how much we owe each other, which I guess depends on the situation.

The whole "you're getting paid" thing bothers me in particular because I just don't think it's effective. People look at the Panthers as a model, right? I don't see a team that's showing up for a paycheck. I see a team that has a good culture and loves each other. "Buck up because we're paying you" is not how you build a good culture, which is a thing that people want.

Not to mention players effectively get paid $0 to play in the playoffs, and look how hard they try.

 

[bl02]

Well I like this guy!

In all seriousness, this is an excellent post. I think the players are super important. They're the most talented people in the world. And when I say that, I'm guilty too. Sometimes I'm not nice. I dump on players. I get emotional.

I also think the fans are super important. Without us, there's no reason for them to play. They'll leave the Rangers someday. I won't.

*whispers*
I think the people are really not important are the people who actually suck most of the money out of this product but let's not get me started again.

Within that, there's a relationship between two very important parties, and the question of how much we owe each other, which I guess depends on the situation.

The whole "you're getting paid" thing bothers me in particular because I just don't think it's effective. People look at the Panthers as a model, right? I don't see a team that's showing up for a paycheck. I see a team that has a good culture and loves each other. "Buck up because we're paying you" is not how you build a good culture, which is a thing that people want.

Not to mention players effectively get paid $0 to play in the playoffs, and look how hard they try.

True but most guys know their next contract will be much much more lucrative if they show up in the playoffs and play their asses off/team goes on a deep run.

 

[NYR Viper]

The UFA market being as bad as it is is why I'm holding out some hope that Drury will be able to get some of these trades done. Gavrikov is going to stay in LA, and regardless, his projected contract is ridiculous. I'm not losing sleep on missing out on Boeser and/or Marner at their projected price points.

There will be some decent depth, but even those players are likely to be overpaid because of how few options there are. Trades and offer sheets seem more likely than ever with the looming cap increases.

I've seen this Gavrikov rumor about him staying in LA but he hasn't signed yet. That makes me think he may test the market

 

[McRanger92]

The current panthers remind me of the Quick Kings. Good defensively but really just know what playoff hockey requires, big defense and no bad players

 

[NYR Viper]

The current panthers remind me of the Quick Kings. Good defensively but really just know what playoff hockey requires, big defense and no bad players

I agree with this. I was thinking that last night. That Kings team was deep and physical.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I've seen this Gavrikov rumor about him staying in LA but he hasn't signed yet. That makes me think he may test the market

Then let him test the market. He's a good player, but I really don't want anything to do with him near the AFP projection at 7x$7.68M.

In general, I think there's been way too much of a narrative of trying to find a partner for Fox. It's systemic issues with the team that Sullivan will hopefully fix given his track record in PIT by getting the forwards to actually understand what the neutral zone is and how to apply back pressure.

 

[NYR Viper]

Then let him test the market. He's a good player, but I really don't want anything to do with him near the AFP projection at 7x$7.68M.

In general, I think there's been way too much of a narrative of trying to find a partner for Fox. It's systemic issues with the team that Sullivan will hopefully fix given his track record in PIT by getting the forwards to actually understand what the neutral zone is and how to apply back pressure.

I think both things can be true. The Rangers need (2) top-4 d-men. Where they come from, it doesn't really matter. Whether one of them are Borgen or Schneider or they come in via trade it's moot.

 

[Machinehead]

The Panthers aren't my cup of tea to watch but they're f***ing great. And I wouldn't care if we played like that. The most fun thing is winning.

 

[bernmeister]

If I'm Cuylle, I'd take a 6 year deal before an 8 year deal, unless that number goes up. The cap is rising and he'll have a chance at a longer contract after 6 years.

what you say is logical and makes sense, but there is an x factor: how much dif taking bit less for coupla yrs vs. security.
This is first big payday. Grab while the grabbing is good.
It IS possible, but not likely Cuylle or anyone else could get a long term deal at 30-ish, but that seems more exception than the rule.
Given THAT, if the first offer is large enuf $$$, makes more sense to go there.

 

[SA16]

I think both things can be true. The Rangers need (2) top-4 d-men. Where they come from, it doesn't really matter. Whether one of them are Borgen or Schneider or they come in via trade it's moot.

Why do they need an expensive top 4 d-man to play with Fox when over the last three years Fox has put up GF% of 59.5, 59.6, and 58.3 (3rd best overall out of 128 dmen with 3,000 mins the last 3 years)? It seems to me he's done perfectly fine with Lindgren/Soucy/Whoever and paying someone a lot of money to play with him is a waste when that money could be spent elsewhere.

 

[duhmetreE]

Sign Bennett 5 years
Zibs for Bertuzzi
Kreider for a pick
Soucy + mid/late pick for McDonagh
sign Orlov

Panarin JTM Laffy
Cuylle Bennett Gabe
Berard Trocheck Bertuzzi
Edstrom Carrick Rempe
Brodz Parsinnen Othmann

McDonagh Fox
KAM Borgen
Orlov Schneider
Vaak

If that team can actually execute, play defense and forecheck, we win.

The reality is, this team still has a window open with a re-tool. Keep the pick this season or use it to get a better Center than Bennett.

 

[NYR Viper]

Why do they need an expensive top 4 d-man to play with Fox when over the last three years Fox has put up GF% of 59.5, 59.6, and 58.3 (3rd best overall out of 128 dmen with 3,000 mins the last 3 years)? It seems to me he's done perfectly fine with Lindgren/Soucy/Whoever and paying someone a lot of money to play with him is a waste when that money could be spent elsewhere.

I really don't care who plays with who honestly. If they want top continue playing the teams #5/6 d-man with Fox, fine. But they then need (2) more quality NHL d-men. Miller and Fox can't be the only (2) top-4 guys on the roster.

 

[SA16]

I really don't care who plays with who honestly. If they want top continue playing the teams #5/6 d-man with Fox, fine. But they then need (2) more quality NHL d-men. Miller and Fox can't be the only (2) top-4 guys on the roster.

I think they need one. To play with Miller. Fox can play with any random guy he's already shown that with the results. I don't think we're going to pay the money for a 2nd pair dman and then play him in a 3rd pair role. We just need to not have bad 3rd pair dmen.

The bottom pair d-men currently for the teams left in the playoffs are:

OEL (3.5M)
Benoit (1.35M)
Schmidt (0.8M)
Kulikov (1.15M)
Bichsel (0.95M)
Lyubushkin (3.25M)
Fleury (0.775M)
Schenn (2.75M)
Walman (3.4M)
Klingberg (1.75M)
Gostisbehere (3.2M)
Walker (3.6M)
TVR (3M)
Alexeyev (0.825M)

None of these guys were signed for big money that would give the expectation of a top-4 guy being played in a lesser role for depth. That's a median salary of 2.25M

 

[bhamill]

Sign Bennett 5 years
Zibs for Bertuzzi
Kreider for a pick
Soucy + mid/late pick for McDonagh
sign Orlov

Panarin JTM Laffy
Cuylle Bennett Gabe
Berard Trocheck Bertuzzi
Edstrom Carrick Rempe
Brodz Parsinnen Othmann

McDonagh Fox
KAM Borgen
Orlov Schneider
Vaak

If that team can actually execute, play defense and forecheck, we win.

The reality is, this team still has a window open with a re-tool. Keep the pick this season or use it to get a better Center than Bennett.

Don't know why we need Bertuzzi, just develop Othmann. IMO Bertuzzi is in decline and has a 5.5m AAV through 2028...

 

[NYR Viper]

I think they need one. To play with Miller. Fox can play with any random guy he's already shown that with the results. I don't think we're going to pay the money for a 2nd pair dman and then play him in a 3rd pair role. We just need to not have bad 3rd pair dmen.

The bottom pair d-men currently for the teams left in the playoffs are:

OEL (3.5M)
Benoit (1.35M)
Schmidt (0.8M)
Kulikov (1.15M):22
Bichsel (0.95M)
Lyubushkin (3.25M)
Fleury (0.775M)
Schenn (2.75M)
Walman (3.4M)
Klingberg (1.75M)
Gostisbehere (3.2M)
Walker (3.6M)
TVR (3M)
Alexeyev (0.825M)

None of these guys were signed for big money that would give the expectation of a top-4 guy being played in a lesser role for depth. That's a median salary of 2.25M

These guys highlighted aren't bottom-pairing guys though. Their all top-4 d-men. Maybe one could argue that they are all #4's, but they aren't bottom pairing guys.

OEL is averaging over 21 mins of ice time per game

Walman is playing over 21 mins a game for the Oilers

Maybe you could argue Walker is a #5 but he averaged 17:22 without any PP time.

I'm not saying they need to sign Gavrikov but they do need to find (2) guys who can play top-4. In my mind, if they don't see Schneider developing then push Borgen down, trade Schneider for find (2) more d-men.

Or just play Schneider up there.

Schneider-Fox
Miller-_______
______-Borgen
Vaak

 

[SA16]

These guys highlighted aren't bottom-pairing guys though. Their all top-4 d-men. Maybe one could argue that they are all #4's, but they aren't bottom pairing guys.

OEL is averaging over 21 mins of ice time per game

Walman is playing over 21 mins a game for the Oilers

Maybe you could argue Walker is a #5 but he averaged 17:22 without any PP time.

I'm not saying they need to sign Gavrikov but they do need to find (2) guys who can play top-4. In my mind, if they don't see Schneider developing then push Borgen down, trade Schneider for find (2) more d-men.

Or just play Schneider up there.

Schneider-Fox
Miller-_______
______-Borgen
Vaak

They all have bottom pair salaries or are young guys on ELCs. Some of them have outperformed them. They didn't go out and spend ~5-6M or so each of them and then play them in lesser roles.

And you can't really use TOI numbers on their own much in the playoffs, especially early. They get thrown off because of OT. Toronto has had 4 OT games. Edmonton 3. Carolina 3 including two 2OT games. I suppose you could take the players total TOI and take it as a percentage of the teams total TOI if you like, but if you don't you're not fairly comparing players between teams.