Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[LaffyTaffy13]

a guy with literally one season above 50 points is above being called a 3c? he wouldnt play above trocheck or miller here so…

Trocheck and benny are both 2C’s. I love trocheck but no one is taking him over benny

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Trocheck and benny are both 2C’s. I love trocheck but no one is taking him over benny

oh you’re on a nickname basis with him? cute

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

oh you’re on a nickname basis with him? cute

Taking PLD over Samuel Bennett is cuter

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Ryan finally made a good point. The Rangers have always been a soft team except for Roger Neilson years when the Rangers had Mark Messier, Adam Graves, Tie Domi. Kris King, Jeff Buekeboom. etc.

The Rangers need to find the next Sam Bennett.

With Anaheim hiring Joel Quenneville last week and Pat Verbeek under pressure to make the playoffs, does Anaheim become an option for Panarin? Quenneville was his first NHL head coach in Chicago. Panarin was interested in the Panthers in 2019 when they had just hired Quenneville. Ryan Strome is in Anaheim. I remember reading Panarin and Strome had become good friends off the ice. Jacob Trouba is there.

Mason McTavish would add some level nastiness to the Rangers. He competes hard. Trevor Zegras is another smallish finesse player. McTavish would be the Rangers Sam Bennett.

Ranger fans dont like those players. We had half the board crying that Rempe was on our roster…..because he was definitely the reason we sucked this season.

We have a nasty player in our system named Othmann, another player that half the board has on their trade list.

No team is trading a young nasty player that is top 6. They hold insane trade value.

 

[eco's bones]

Ryan finally made a good point. The Rangers have always been a soft team except for Roger Neilson years when the Rangers had Mark Messier, Adam Graves, Tie Domi. Kris King, Jeff Buekeboom. etc.

The Rangers need to find the next Sam Bennett.

With Anaheim hiring Joel Quenneville last week and Pat Verbeek under pressure to make the playoffs, does Anaheim become an option for Panarin? Quenneville was his first NHL head coach in Chicago. Panarin was interested in the Panthers in 2019 when they had just hired Quenneville. Ryan Strome is in Anaheim. I remember reading Panarin and Strome had become good friends off the ice. Jacob Trouba is there.

Mason McTavish would add some level nastiness to the Rangers. He competes hard. Trevor Zegras is another smallish finesse player. McTavish would be the Rangers Sam Bennett.

I love MacTavish. Anaheim would be nuts to move him.....even for Panarin. Zegras can probably be had. I don't know if he'll go back to the producer he was or not. I think he's a gamble.

Our bottom lines can bring a lot of grit but really it's best when you got mean and physical throughout your lineup. Cuylle, Rempe, Edstrom. Carrick doesn't take any shit either. Othmann is a possibility and maybe Berard. We have pieces like that but we don't have enough in the right places.....or at least as of now.

I do expect Rempe to get better. Calvin de Haan on the Cam and Strick show raved about him. Said he was shocked to see how much he improved and how good he looked in the last few games. Said he had 'religious' work habits. And it would be nice if some of our better players took things as seriously. It's why Henrik stood out for so long. He would say that as he got older he knew he had to work even harder to stay on top of his game. He was driven. Most players.....most people aren't. Cuylle took huge steps last year. I have a lot of hope in him too.

 

[Alluckks]

I don't think Buffalo likes us very much. They took less for Eichel than we were offering because f*** us, that's why.

This has been pretty known for a while but I think people refuse to acknowledge it. It wouldn't shock me at all if it played a role in a Peterka deal not getting done despite multiple relatively reliable insiders reporting it was at the finish line.

It is the Pegulas. They are worried about being made to look like fools.

 

[kovazub94]

The coaching staff gave Soucy top minutes. No one in their right mind would take Trocheck over Zibanejad.

See you're approaching it wrong again - just enticing hostile pushback to your posts. Instead of comparing Zibanejad to other Rangers (who have at least one advantage over him as noone outside of Kreider quit on the team as much as Zibanejad). You need to try to argue that Zibanejad is not as bad as people think going into the next season. I’m hoping for him to clear head, train hard in the offseason and turn 25-26 season into what Panarin did in 23-24. I’d love if the Rangers were able to play each game to their advantage with JTM-Zibanejad-Trocheck and I wouldn’t care whose CALLED #1C or 2C or 3C if they win games

 

[kovazub94]

I love MacTavish. Anaheim would be nuts to move him.....even for Panarin. Zegras can probably be had. I don't know if he'll go back to the producer he was or not. I think he's a gamble.

Our bottom lines can bring a lot of grit but really it's best when you got mean and physical throughout your lineup. Cuylle, Rempe, Edstrom. Carrick doesn't take any shit either. Othmann is a possibility and maybe Berard. We have pieces like that but we don't have enough in the right places.....or at least as of now.

I do expect Rempe to get better. Calvin de Haan on the Cam and Strick show raved about him. Said he was shocked to see how much he improved and how good he looked in the last few games. Said he had 'religious' work habits. And it would be nice if some of our better players took things as seriously. It's why Henrik stood out for so long. He would say that as he got older he knew he had to work even harder to stay on top of his game. He was driven. Most players.....most people aren't. Cuylle took huge steps last year. I have a lot of hope in him too.

Only one Cuylle from your list is in top-6. JTM and Trocheck have some of that though. I’m actually hoping Sally would be able to get it out of Lafreniere too - I think it’s there if he realizes it wouldn’t disrupt his scoring, if anything it could help.

 

[Levitate]

The problem is always that it's not that easy to find "gritty, nasty" players who also have skill. People say you need more of that in the playoffs so teams end up getting meh players on bad contracts because "they're nasty" but then they don't score and are crap on the ice and then people say "we don't have enough skill"

then there's people saying we should trade cuylle because his value is at its highest

 

[eco's bones]

See your approach it wrong again just enticing hostile pushback to your posts. Instead of comparing Zibanejad to other Rangers (who have at least one advantage over him as no one outside of Kreider quit on the team as much as Zibanejad). You need to try to argue that Zibanejad is not as bad as people think going into the next season. I’m hoping for him to clear head, train hard in the offseason and turn 25-26 season into what Panarin did in 23-24. I’d love if the Rangers were able to play each game to their advantage with JTM-Zibanejad-Trocheck and I wouldn’t care whose CALLED #1C or 2C or 3C if they win games

Mika and Kreider shitting the bed for so much of last season really hurt the team. It's a lot harder to defend against a team that's got two really good top lines and when one line disappears it puts more pressure on the other. Also other teams notice and will put their best checkers against the better line. Early on Chytil's line was able to take some of the slack but after Filip got concussed that pretty much ended.

JT comes back in and was able to get Mika back on track somewhat but by then we're just chasing the season. Maybe Chris was banged up here and there but he wasn't acting all that interested. Mika was making terrible defensive decisions and then had that nervous breakdown? or whatever it was against the Sabres. Sure he put up a lot of points in the last month or so but the team never closed the gap and then the season was over a good 5/6 games out. Many of our best players let the team down and I'd start with those two.

Mika might be back but he better be ready. He's out of excuses.

 

[bernmeister]

Ryan finally made a good point. The Rangers have always been a soft team except for Roger Neilson years when the Rangers had Mark Messier, Adam Graves, Tie Domi. Kris King, Jeff Buekeboom. etc.

The Rangers need to find the next Sam Bennett.

With Anaheim hiring Joel Quenneville last week and Pat Verbeek under pressure to make the playoffs, does Anaheim become an option for Panarin? Quenneville was his first NHL head coach in Chicago. Panarin was interested in the Panthers in 2019 when they had just hired Quenneville. Ryan Strome is in Anaheim. I remember reading Panarin and Strome had become good friends off the ice. Jacob Trouba is there.

Mason McTavish would add some level nastiness to the Rangers. He competes hard. Trevor Zegras is another smallish finesse player. McTavish would be the Rangers Sam Bennett.

No, we have some options w/ANA
but not bread

Panarin at half for Bischel from DAL

Ranger fans dont like those players. We had half the board crying that Rempe was on our roster…..because he was definitely the reason we sucked this season.

We have a nasty player in our system named Othmann, another player that half the board has on their trade list.

No team is trading a young nasty player that is top 6. They hold insane trade value.

that is the half of the board that was wrong
has not yet embraced 'learn w da bern'

 

[RangersFan1994]

Ranger fans dont like those players. We had half the board crying that Rempe was on our roster…..because he was definitely the reason we sucked this season.

We have a nasty player in our system named Othmann, another player that half the board has on their trade list.

No team is trading a young nasty player that is top 6. They hold insane trade value.

I dont know. Fans lover Dubinsky, Pratt, Boyle, Avery when they were Rangers. Its just the Rangers haven't never had their own Tkachuk, J.Benn, S.Doan, Dustin Brown ty0e of player in recent era. Rangers need to draft those

 

[n8]

One fantasy scenario in my mind would be
Kreider to BOS for two 2nd
Zibanejad + 2nd (more if needed) to UTA for Kesserling + McBain (their fans would never go for this, but maybe similar to Sergachev trade last year?)
K.Miller to CLB for Olivier

Run a third line of
Othmann/Cuylle-McBain-Olivier
Kesserling pushes Borgen to 3rd pairing. Schneider plays LD.

 

[Kendo]

Give me 48 centers youd take over sam bennett. Theres been absurd takes on this board but trying to argue sam bennett isnt a 2C is beyond absurd

Can we agree that these are the goal posts? Because it makes total sense that you want a top 16 C and a top 48 C as your 1C/2C combo. We see eye to eye on that premise. It's a good premise.

I just went back to check my "broad brush" stat check. Initially using all C's for the past two seasons. Then only counting F that took over 600 FO in just this past season. This removes 15C's, and adds three listed W's that easily clear 600 FO like Byfield.

Your 1C is ideally going to be around a P/GP or better. Even though raw stats aren't the definitive bar, the top 16 Centers set it pretty cleanly.

Your 2C in that case is going to be around .667 P/GP (55P) or better. I swear I didn't orchestrate that the bar would be just above Sam's season! He was over 60th in the quick and dirty math, and I thought he would be more like 50th if you eliminated 10 guys that aren't actually a C.

The guys that clear top 48 just ahead of him:
Cooley
Byfield
McTavish
Stephenson
Zacha
Cirelli
PLD

All of them have a better career season than Sam's current best, and two guys with two cups a piece. Some great young pieces without one yet. And Zacha... LOL

49, Boone Jenner whose body cannot keep up with his game. Doesn't count.

49 instead; Sam Bennett. I shit you not. And I respect it. If you'd rather have him than PLD or Zacha since he brings vibes, then cool. That's worth it to you having roughly 10% less production than the actual 48th C last season, this season, and likely next season as well. Money aside, that's not unreasonable at all.

He is the 6th F on his team currently, but that's only because I'm a Lundell believer. And Lundell missed out on the top 50!

Being the "perfect fit of a PITA 6th F" is the calling card of the NHL Middle 6er with just enough offense to get by, but all of the intangibles that you crave. Electrolytes. That's what he is.

For the last two seasons, he's been the 6th F on a great team. Saying he's been the 2C doesn't automatically prove your point if there were "5 better F on his own team." He can be the current 2C on a very good team and still accurately be called a "2.5C."

We're saying similar things. I'm saying my thing is a slightly more accurate version of yours. Raw stats, fancy stats, eye test, & potential all considered.

I'm not saying you're crazy, but if you think I'm crazy, you're crazy. =)

 

[Kendo]

Hes a 2C. There is no 2.5 or 3. Hes a 2C on the cup champs

He's literally taken the 3rd most FO on his own team. For two seasons straight.

 

[Kendo]

I'll go on record saying I would trade Mika to his destination of choice for a 7th rounder if you could guarantee Sam Bennett at 8.5x4. Mika's hit for one fewer year. He would fit so well that even Laf & Cuylle would outproduce him all 4 years! He's the rug that pulls the room together in FLA's top 6. That was supposed to be 20+93 for us, but that went sideways.

The term is the issue. Sam's a "sick 6th F." Laf is getting paid less than what Bennett's gonna get and for likely the same term. Wouldn't an 8x7 deal be an albatross? We have a better 2C in Trocheck on a great deal anyway.

10 - 8 - 13
50 - 16 - Bennett

If Mika and Kreids are both gone, I could see it. 6th Guy. Term might be scary, but he would slide right back to 3C while our Wings develop over time. Not impossible.

 

[RangersFan1994]

One fantasy scenario in my mind would be
Kreider to BOS for two 2nd
Zibanejad + 2nd (more if needed) to UTA for Kesserling + McBain (their fans would never go for this, but maybe similar to Sergachev trade last year?)
K.Miller to CLB for Oliver

Run a third line of
Othmann/Cuylle-McBain-Olivier
Kesserling pushes Borgen to 3rd pairing. Schneider plays LD.

Oliver just got resigned. No way Bluejackets deal him.

McBain would be a good add. Doubt Utah trades him though.

 

[n8]

Oliver just got resigned. No way Bluejackets deal him.

McBain would be a good add. Doubt Utah trades him though.

I did say it was a fantasy.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

He's literally taken the 3rd most FO on his own team. For two seasons straight.

I mean this is an incredibly stupid metric to use lol. So I guess Jack Hughes is a 3c by this metric

 

[eco's bones]

Olivier was undrafted. Spent two fairly unproductive years in the AHL and made the NHL because the Preds felt the need for a tough guy. Before Rempe some might have thought of him as the worst player in the league or if not one of the worst like they think Rempe is now. Olivier worked very hard to get better though. Like Rempe is working very hard to get better. Olivier breaks out with a 30+ point year as a 27/28 year old. He gets a multiyear $3mil per deal. He stays with the team that showed faith in him. He's become an important player for the Blue Jackets. I'm sure when his teammates look around the locker room before a game they see him and think 'I'm glad he's on our side'. This is how Rempe should fit.

It took Tom Wilson a few years to start producing too. Just saying that Rempe isn't a finished product. There's a lot of room for him to improve from where he is now.

 

[Daves a mess]

Peca's certainly always serving a good, hard look.

Always good to have a good, hard Peca.

 

[McRanger92]

This has been pretty known for a while but I think people refuse to acknowledge it. It wouldn't shock me at all if it played a role in a Peterka deal not getting done despite multiple relatively reliable insiders reporting it was at the finish line.

It is the Pegulas. They are worried about being made to look like fools.

They dont need any help from the outside to do that.

 

[tlk]

They dont need any help from the outside to do that.

It'd take some doing too.

 

[NYR Viper]

AFP's new end of season contract projections are out and there are some intriguing happenings that I'll list out:

Bennett - 6 years @ $6.67m
Cuylle - 3 years @ $3.5m
Donato - 3 years @ $4.2m
Edstrom - 1 year @ $1.07m
Gavrikov - 7 ears @ $7.6m
Gourde - 2 years @ $3.8m
Zac Jones - 2 years @ $1.227m
Mangiapane - 2 years @ $3.8m
Ryan McLeod - 3 years @ $4.835m
Orlov - 3 years @ $5.8m
Peterka - 7 ears @ $7.8m
Provorov - 6 years @ $7m
Rossi - 7 years @ $7.4m

 

[NYR Viper]

For me personally, when I use the term 2/3C I’m stating what he is likely to be as his contract unfolds. He’s a quasi-2C today but in 3 years? How about 5 years? He’s likely to get a 7 year deal.

Someone do the quick math for me though, what would Trochek’s cap hit be today if we just factored in the cap increases? He’s on a sweetheart deal as the cap has increased. Perhaps I’m looking at this too hard based on past cap stagnation and should be more open to this.

I’m guessing, and someone will confirm I’m sure, that Teochek’s same percentage of cap would put him today at somewhere in the $7m range. So should we be afraid of signing someone (maybe not Bennett but someone) in that same range again?

Alright so I looked back and here are the numbers. Trochek signed for what amounted to 6.8182% of the cap going in to his first season. The salary cap was $82.5m. If Bennett were to sign for the same cap percentage of this years upcoming cap he would be at $6.51m.

AFP has him projected to make $6.67m. I'm beginning to warm to this idea.