Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[MrAlmost]

If it's another kick at the can and everyone's back, I'm out. I feel like I've watched this same team for 10 years. The reality is that it's not that much less than that. I just don't want to see kreider, Z and panarin anymore. We can't draft top guys so sign Marner. At least it would be new to go along with Miller and some others. I can't even explain how little I want to see kreider, z, and panarin on the PP again taking up 1:40 of time. f*** em. I dont care if we get nothing back but cap space. I dont give a shit about second leading scorer, top scorer, blah blah. The goals will come. They always do. Just make it new and bring in some guys that like where Sully wants to take the team.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If it's another kick at the can and everyone's back, I'm out. I feel like I've watched this same team for 10 years. The reality is that it's not that much less than that. I just don't want to see kreider, Z and panarin anymore. We can't draft top guys so sign Marner. At least it would be new to go along with Miller and some others. I can't even explain how little I want to see kreider, z, and panarin on the PP again taking up 1:40 of time. f*** em. I dont care if we get nothing back but cap space. I dont give a shit about second leading scorer, top scorer, blah blah. The goals will come. They always do. Just make it new and bring in some guys that like where Sully wants to take the team.

Amen

 

[eco's bones]

Holy shit the amount of mental gymnastics on display here is bizarre. Does it hurt that much that the player you have been shitting on for the entire season ends up being the teams 2nd best scorer?

After the season ended I was fine with Mika being traded if it meant that the team would be improved but at this point I just want him here for the remainder of his contract breaking all kinds of franchise records while enjoying the salty tears from some of the fan base.

1st up is the PPG record. Only 8 goals shy.

If you're asking me you're the one doing the mental gymnastics. I'd add that JT's return to NYC is what kickstarted Mika's late season too late scoring heroics. Before his arrival Mika had 9 goals 20 assists in 49 games. He was also a -24....a horrific number. The next worst at that point in the season was Lafreniere with a -11. Mika's season was a disaster.

Any case I'm sorry but 70 points in 72 games is somewhat better than 62 in 82. I don't think that's a controversial take. One's practically a point a game player.....the other isn't. Who really gives a f*** about the team power play goal record? I think what most of us want here is for the team to start winning again. Making it back to the playoffs is a little more important IMO. If he sticks and scores a bunch of power play goals that's fine with me but the team winning is really what is important....not these dumbass team records.

 

[its not that serious]

Mika had a bad stretch, JT was a point per game with a different team.... They both should be point per game players. During the time JT was back, they both were. That's what matters most.

Doesn't matter if JT helped spark Mika or not. If Mika produces at that level next year with JT or without JT on the ice with him, or together sometimes, points are points.

Zibanejad isn't getting traded if he plays anywhere near the level he did at the end of the season, and if his play falls off completely, no one will want five years of him (and the Rangers won't retain five years).

The Rangers also aren't trading Panarin unless they bottom out completely in the standings. Odds are, they won't get value back before that contract ends or he re-signs.

Marner's style is so similar to Panarin and pass-first, I imagine most of the fan base would turn on him real, real fast. Especially with what he'll be paid. Mika and JT's cap hits, in comparison, look real nice.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[haohmaru]

If it's another kick at the can and everyone's back, I'm out. I feel like I've watched this same team for 10 years. The reality is that it's not that much less than that. I just don't want to see kreider, Z and panarin anymore. We can't draft top guys so sign Marner. At least it would be new to go along with Miller and some others. I can't even explain how little I want to see kreider, z, and panarin on the PP again taking up 1:40 of time. f*** em. I dont care if we get nothing back but cap space. I dont give a shit about second leading scorer, top scorer, blah blah. The goals will come. They always do. Just make it new and bring in some guys that like where Sully wants to take the team.

For me... it depends. If they run this whole group back then they haven't learned a thing and, despite that, I'm still intrigued what Sullivan will get out of them.

If they start the first 20 games anywhere near that horrendous stretch from last year then I'm out too. And it's not even about watching a bad team (been there, done that), it's about watching a team not making an effort.

This past year was incredibly frustrating as a fan because it wasn't about them losing, it was about effort, no attention to detail, no anger on the bench when losing, no fight, etc....

I'm not wasting my time on that shit for 82 x 2.5 hours. I'm getting too old to throw those minutes away.

 

[Siddi]

If you're asking me you're the one doing the mental gymnastics. I'd add that JT's return to NYC is what kickstarted Mika's late season too late scoring heroics. Before his arrival Mika had 9 goals 20 assists in 49 games. He was also a -24....a horrific number. The next worst at that point in the season was Lafreniere with a -11. Mika's season was a disaster.

Any case I'm sorry but 70 points in 72 games is somewhat better than 62 in 82. I don't think that's a controversial take. One's practically a point a game player.....the other isn't. Who really gives a f*** about the team power play goal record? I think what most of us want here is for the team to start winning again. Making it back to the playoffs is a little more important IMO. If he sticks and scores a bunch of power play goals that's fine with me but the team winning is really what is important....not these dumbass team records.

First of all, this narrative that JT arriving was the catalyst for Mika need to die. He was already finding his game long before JT arrived. He was leading the team in xGF but was extremely snake bitten. He was always going to start producing despite JT arriving.

Second, while his +/- looks bad it is the worst way of evaluating a player. Going by +/- JT was -2 during his 32 games with the Rangers while Mika went +3 during that same stretch.

Third, JT was shooting almost 24% during those 32 games. His career average is 15%. That is insane and not sustainable. Meanwhile, Mika was shooting 15%, up 2% from his career average which is 13%.

JT put up 35 points vs Mikas 33 points during that stretch.

Now tell me, in this scenario, which player is more likely to sustain that level of production?

 

[Boris Zubov]

Listening to this interview was a waste of time. Joe clearly has more to say, but he's taking the high road. More of the same BS about Goodrow & Tuba, which everyone is tired of hearing about.

 

[Siddi]

Joe said plenty in that video. Stating that Drury needs to acknowledge what the players said in the exit interviews and change the way he manages the team. He even touched on Sully being a communicator.

I am not surprised some posters huffing and puffing about the video being BS because it is clearly going against their own narrative.

 

[Overcast]

First of all, this narrative that JT arriving was the catalyst for Mika need to die. He was already finding his game long before JT arrived. He was leading the team in xGF but was extremely snake bitten. He was always going to start producing despite JT arriving.

Second, while his +/- looks bad it is the worst way of evaluating a player. Going by +/- JT was -2 during his 32 games with the Rangers while Mika went +3 during that same stretch.

Third, JT was shooting almost 24% during those 32 games. His career average is 15%. That is insane and not sustainable. Meanwhile, Mika was shooting 15%, up 2% from his career average which is 13%.

JT put up 35 points vs Mikas 33 points during that stretch.

Now tell me, in this scenario, which player is more likely to sustain that level of production?

JT because of the way he doesn't give up on half a season because his hockey team's front office decided to move a player. Next question?

 

[eco's bones]

First of all, this narrative that JT arriving was the catalyst for Mika need to die. He was already finding his game long before JT arrived. He was leading the team in xGF but was extremely snake bitten. He was always going to start producing despite JT arriving.

Second, while his +/- looks bad it is the worst way of evaluating a player. Going by +/- JT was -2 during his 32 games with the Rangers while Mika went +3 during that same stretch.

Third, JT was shooting almost 24% during those 32 games. His career average is 15%. That is insane and not sustainable. Meanwhile, Mika was shooting 15%, up 2% from his career average which is 13%.

JT put up 35 points vs Mikas 33 points during that stretch.

Now tell me, in this scenario, which player is more likely to sustain that level of production?

Long before? When he had 29 points in 49 games......he'd found his game by then? Like mid January with the team floundering? Let's see he scored a goal on Nov. 30---the next one came on Dec. 11. Then we waited until Jan 4. Over that period of time we played 16 games and lost 11. Then he next scored on Jan. 19. Bonanza! Two goals in the same month. Ground Hog day was pretty much when his season started for real. He got one that day too. No. 19 + 20 came in our last game of the season in the 3rd period. Like we really needed those two goals then.

You know xGF is great. Expected? What about when the expected doesn't happen enough? Snake bit? Right. A lot of Mika's production came in the second half by which time we were already chasing the season and never quite catching up. And Mika's +/- of a -22 stands out because it's the worst on the team. That's why I find it relevant. It kind of does stick out. The two closest to him were Lafreniere -13 who also had a shit year and Panarin with a -9. Almost our entire D ended the season as +'s by the way.

It's nice that he padded his stat sheet at the end when we were out.

Back to the power play record he can shoot for. If he needs 8 he'll need one more than what he got this past year playing all 82. Mika had 7 power play goals. To put that in perspective there were 60 NHL players this season had 8 or more. 18 tied with 7 so congratulations your guy was one of the best 78 goal producers on the power play last year.

Anyway I like JT a lot more for the reasons in my previous post. He's not a soft player.

 

[Machinehead]

Retaining on Mika to get a 2nd is kinda wild.

At the very least, it's a move where you're kind of taking a step back, which none of the anti-Mika crowd seems to want to accept.

He's not Barclay Goodrow. He's a player that leaves a hole in the lineup.

If you wanna just roll with that, that's fine, but the sentiment from a lot of folks is "nah we're gonna trade Mika and win the Cup."

 

[Machinehead]

JT because of the way he doesn't give up on half a season because his hockey team's front office decided to move a player. Next question?

He literally just did that in Vancouver.

 

[bernmeister]

Mika had a bad stretch, JT was a point per game with a different team.... They both should be point per game players. During the time JT was back, they both were. That's what matters most.

Doesn't matter if JT helped spark Mika or not. If Mika produces at that level next year with JT or without JT on the ice with him, or together sometimes, points are points.

Zibanejad isn't getting traded if he plays anywhere near the level he did at the end of the season, and if his play falls off completely, no one will want five years of him (and the Rangers won't retain five years).

The Rangers also aren't trading Panarin unless they bottom out completely in the standings. Odds are, they won't get value back before that contract ends or he re-signs.

Marner's style is so similar to Panarin and pass-first, I imagine most of the fan base would turn on him real, real fast. Especially with what he'll be paid. Mika and JT's cap hits, in comparison, look real nice.

Rs will retain max now for full 5 to get a taker he will agree to and max return

 

[Siddi]

JT because of the way he doesn't give up on half a season because his hockey team's front office decided to move a player. Next question?

For your own sake I hope this comment is in jest because if not you just made yourself a fool in front of everyone.

 

[Siddi]

Long before? When he had 29 points in 49 games......he'd found his game by then? Like mid January with the team floundering? Let's see he scored a goal on Nov. 30---the next one came on Dec. 11. Then we waited until Jan 4. Over that period of time we played 16 games and lost 11. Then he next scored on Jan. 19. Bonanza! Two goals in the same month. Ground Hog day was pretty much when his season started for real. He got one that day too. No. 19 + 20 came in our last game of the season in the 3rd period. Like we really needed those two goals then.

You know xGF is great. Expected? What about when the expected doesn't happen enough? Snake bit? Right. A lot of Mika's production came in the second half by which time we were already chasing the season and never quite catching up. And Mika's +/- of a -22 stands out because it's the worst on the team. That's why I find it relevant. It kind of does stick out. The two closest to him were Lafreniere -13 who also had a shit year and Panarin with a -9. Almost our entire D ended the season as +'s by the way.

It's nice that he padded his stat sheet at the end when we were out.

Back to the power play record he can shoot for. If he needs 8 he'll need one more than what he got this past year playing all 82. Mika had 7 power play goals. To put that in perspective there were 60 NHL players this season had 8 or more. 18 tied with 7 so congratulations your guy was one of the best 78 goal producers on the power play last year.

Anyway I like JT a lot more for the reasons in my previous post. He's not a soft player.

It is very telling that you didnt answer my question and instead went on a rant

 

[haohmaru]

He literally just did that in Vancouver.

Who was the player moved?

 

[Siddi]

Who was the player moved?

So quitting on your team is only frowned upon if it is because a player was moved?

 

[Machinehead]

So quitting on your team is only frowned upon if it is because a player was moved?

Yes.

 

[McRanger92]

Retaining on Mika to get a 2nd is kinda wild.

At the very least, it's a move where you're kind of taking a step back, which none of the anti-Mika crowd seems to want to accept.

He's not Barclay Goodrow. He's a player that leaves a hole in the lineup.

If you wanna just roll with that, that's fine, but the sentiment from a lot of folks is "nah we're gonna trade Mika and win the Cup."

No one thinks that

 

[Overcast]

He literally just did that in Vancouver.

By taking like, a 3 game hiatus or whatever it was? That was all I heard about this season, and things between him and EP blowing up. If he was dogging it the same way Mika did the first half of the season, then I stand corrected.

Regardless, I just don't like Mika. Full stop. The last 2 seasons of his have left a very sour taste in my mouth. I would like for him to not pull the same first half of the season shit next year since he seems to be staying, but I have little to no faith in him. And conversely I like JT and have faith that he can continue to be a good player for NYR, also for no reason.

 

[Overcast]

For your own sake I hope this comment is in jest because if not you just made yourself a fool in front of everyone.

I thought we were all allowed to do mental gymnastics for players we liked?

 

[80s Kid]

Fully admit JTM is a head case. However, he was distraught over the fact that the younger players on Vancouver didn't adequately prepare for the season while he busted his ass off. This is why most Vancouver fans didn't want him to leave.

Mika played as a shell of himself for three months because he didn't like the changes being made by the FO.

My hope is that JTM and Mika both have phenomenal years next season and we can put this all behind us.

But for now, I'll take head case #1.

 

[Machinehead]

No one thinks that

You don't think that.

Pretty much everyone else who wants to purge the vets does.

 

[Machinehead]

By taking like, a 3 game hiatus or whatever it was? That was all I heard about this season, and things between him and EP blowing up. If he was dogging it the same way Mika did the first half of the season, then I stand corrected.

Regardless, I just don't like Mika. Full stop. The last 2 seasons of his have left a very sour taste in my mouth. I would like for him to not pull the same first half of the season shit next year since he seems to be staying, but I have little to no faith in him. And conversely I like JT and have faith that he can continue to be a good player for NYR, also for no reason.

He got traded because he was dogging it. Why do we think he was available?

I'm not crucifying the guy over it or saying he's irredeemable, but it's weird to me the way we treat our own problems vs outside problems.