Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

Well yeah if McDavid becomes available you do what you can to sign him.

Panarin is/was not McDavid. Theres a pretty substantial gap between the 2 of them that grows even wider when you consider playoff performance (McDavid is top 3 in pt/g all time, Panarin isn't even top 3 on the NYR since he's been here.)

I don't know how anyone can aruge that he's worked out with the knowledge that hindsight provides. Maybe a hard rebuild wouldn't have worked any better (we will never know) but we know that the Panarin era hasn't worked out. There are several reasons for that, but he's probably been the biggest reason why.

Because some people don't exclusively consider "working out" to mean winning the Stanley Cup - an unlikely outcome even for the best team in the league. Winning a presidents trophy and making the ECF twice is quite a good result.
 
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Same for Panarin.



The comparison wasn't between Panarin and McDavid specifically but when a franchise player becomes available for a signature, instead of assets, you do it.

No not the same for Panarin. Theres levels to this shit and to act like they're even close to the same is not arguing in good faith. If a "rebuilding" team added McDavid, he would be the rebuild and he's probably the only player in the league you can say that about (some will argue MacK, but I think theres a gap between those 2 guys as well.)

Not sure why you're as down on Panarin as you are, but he's lived up to whatever the expectations were signing him. He's going to be a top 10 scorer in franchise history in playing for this club for 7 years. That's astounding. Whatever is wrong with the Rangers, it's not Panarin.

I think it's pretty clear Panarin isn't a franchise player and singing him at the time that the Rangers did was f***ing stupid. The amount of catering that has been done to this player (from being able to choose who he plays with to having a trade deadline basically dedicated to him and failing epically after that to allowing him to get away with doing what ever the f*** he wants on the ice) is exhausting. Not to mention the trickle down impact his presence has had on roster construction.

The biggest issuse I have with the "Pro Panarin" crowd is you all want to act like his disappearing act in the playoffs isn't a thing - Those games matter more than the 82 that preceed them (where he has produced well.) Franchise players carry you through those games, not do what ever the hell Panarin has done.

Forget comparing him to players in his talent/salary bracket (Spoiler Alert: he gets outshone by all of them) he isn't even giving you the type of output that has been put up by Zibanejad/Guentzel/Verhaeghe

FWIW: His pts/g as a Ranger drop by more than half a point a game from the regular season to the playoffs.

Find me another player who is even close to that. You won't because they don't exist unless you want to use absurdly small sample sizes.

Because some people don't exclusively consider "working out" to mean winning the Stanley Cup - an unlikely outcome even for the best team in the league. Winning a presidents trophy and making the ECF twice is quite a good result.

It is.

You know what is one of the driving factors for not getting over the hump? Spending 11.6 million on a guy who hasn't been able to put up numbers when it matters. There are other issues as well but lets not act like this hasn't been a problem.

I'm not looking for McDavid/Draisaitl/MacKinnon production from him (those guys are better players and I'm not going to hold him to unrealistic standards) but theres no reason why he shouldn't be getting outproduced by the likes of Zibanejad, Kreider and Trocheck.

Hell even Lafreniere who gets blasted to hell on here has been more productive 5v5 in the playoffs than Panarin despite playing more than 100 minutes less.
 
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No not the same for Panarin. Theres levels to this shit and to act like they're even close to the same is not arguing in good faith. If a "rebuilding" team added McDavid, he would be the rebuild and he's probably the only player in the league you can say that about (some will argue MacK, but I think theres a gap between those 2 guys as well.)

Ridiculous take. Is McDavid the best player in the league? Yes. Is a wing who scored 870 points in 752 games one of the best players in the league as well? Yes. If you can get that player for signing on the dotted line with no assets lost, no development time, in his 20's do you do that every time? Yes. Anything else is just dumb.
I think it's pretty clear Panarin isn't a franchise player and singing him at the time that the Rangers did was f***ing stupid. The amount of catering that has been done to this player (from being able to choose who he plays with to having a trade deadline basically dedicated to him and failing epically after that to allowing him to get away with doing what ever the f*** he wants on the ice) is exhausting. Not to mention the trickle down impact his presence has had on roster construction.

Catering? Source? Prove it or you're just making shit up. If we're talking Kane I think that was a Rangers management problem. Not a Panarin problem. They thought they'd rekindle that old magic on a dude with one working hip. That's on management.

The biggest issuse I have with the "Pro Panarin" crowd is you all want to act like his disappearing act in the playoffs isn't a thing - Those games matter more than the 82 that preceed them (where he has produced well.) Franchise players carry you through those games, not do what ever the hell Panarin has done.

Kucherov hasn't scored a goal in 15 straight playoff games. Let's shoot him into the sun too. The Rangers biggest problem is there are no other threats. Whenever Panarin is out, the offense dries up. Any good defensive (5v5) team keys on him and its over because nobody else can pass worth a shit.

Forget comparing him to players in his talent/salary bracket (Spoiler Alert: he gets outshone by all of them) he isn't even giving you the type of output that has been put up by Zibanejad/Guentzel/Verhaeghe

Guentzel has Kucherov. Verhaege has Barkov, Tkachuk, Bennet and arguably the best team in the league.

Panarin had 4 GWG in last year's playoffs. Zibanejad had, let me look it up, oh, here it is. ZERO.

Florida shut him down and smothered him. Leading into that series Panarin was leading the team in scoring.

It is.

You know what is one of the driving factors for not getting over the hump? Spending 11.6 million on a guy who hasn't been able to put up numbers when it matters. There are other issues as well but lets not act like this hasn't been a problem.

I'm not looking for McDavid/Draisaitl/MacKinnon production from him (those guys are better players and I'm not going to hold him to unrealistic standards) but theres no reason why he shouldn't be getting outproduced by the likes of Zibanejad, Kreider and Trocheck.

Hell even Lafreniere who gets blasted to hell on here has been more productive 5v5 in the playoffs than Panarin despite playing more than 100 minutes less.

One player has NEVER won a cup. Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the league and is a wing, like Panarin, and has won one cup.

Panarin isn't the problem. It's the supporting cast.
 
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So, Kreider's name was on the wall in red paint obviously. Zib has had some stuff in there but always with the caveat about his NMC - coupled with his pretty stern remarks late in the season. Lafreniere's name was floated by Brooks originally in season when he did the Tkachuck mongering, but now Laf is out there again with Mollie, who works with Brooks. Brooks typically the mouthpiece for Rangers management/ownership. Panarin's name out there by national reporters.

I can see a world where all of Kreider, Panarin, and Laf move.
I don’t see NYR selling low on Laf after seeing what he did last season into the playoffs. They know WHAT he can do, the question is will he ever do it again or exceed it? He’s 23 so the likelihood is he WILL. No point in shopping him after this disappointing ‘24-‘25 season. If he’s moved it’ll be for an “overpayment” because someone else wants him.
 
I don’t see NYR selling low on Laf after seeing what he did last season into the playoffs. They know WHAT he can do, the question is will he ever do it again or exceed it? He’s 23 so the likelihood is he WILL. No point in shopping him after this disappointing ‘24-‘25 season. If he’s moved it’ll be for an “overpayment” because someone else wants him.
I agree with you. We will not sell low. I think the potential is still there but he has to prove he has the work ethic to reach his ceiling.
 
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Ridiculous take. Is McDavid the best player in the league? Yes. Is a wing who scored 870 points in 752 games one of the best players in the league as well? Yes. If you can get that player for signing on the dotted line with no assets lost, no development time, in his 20's do you do that every time? Yes. Anything else is just dumb.


Catering? Source? Prove it or you're just making shit up. If we're talking Kane I think that was a Rangers management problem. Not a Panarin problem. They thought they'd rekindle that old magic on a dude with one working hip. That's on management.



Kucherov hasn't scored a goal in 15 straight playoff games. Let's shoot him into the sun too. The Rangers biggest problem is there are no other threats. Whenever Panarin is out, the offense dries up. Any good defensive (5v5) team keys on him and its over because nobody else can pass worth a shit.



Guentzel has Kucherov. Verhaege has Barkov, Tkachuk, Bennet and arguably the best team in the league.

Panarin had 4 GWG in last year's playoffs. Zibanejad had, let me look it up, oh, here it is. ZERO.

Florida shut him down and smothered him. Leading into that series Panarin was leading the team in scoring.



One player has NEVER won a cup. Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the league and is a wing, like Panarin, and has won one cup.

Panarin isn't the problem. It's the supporting cast.
It’s also that Panarin does the opposite of raise his game in the playoffs. Even at 1.0 PPG. Thats quite a drop from the almost 1.5 ppg of the reg season. It’s not subjective, that is just objectively, factually a severe drop off.
 
It’s also that Panarin does the opposite of raise his game in the playoffs. Even at 1.0 PPG. Thats quite a drop from the almost 1.5 ppg of the reg season. It’s not subjective, that is just objectively, factually a severe drop off.

Again - how much of that is Panarin and how much of that is his supporting cast? When he's out of the lineup the lack of offense is very noticeable. The Devils smothered him as did TB & Florida. When you're the only option out there then there isn't a whole lot guesswork about who to cover.
 
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Ridiculous take. Is McDavid the best player in the league? Yes. Is a wing who scored 870 points in 752 games one of the best players in the league as well? Yes. If you can get that player for signing on the dotted line with no assets lost, no development time, in his 20's do you do that every time? Yes. Anything else is just dumb.


Catering? Source? Prove it or you're just making shit up. If we're talking Kane I think that was a Rangers management problem. Not a Panarin problem. They thought they'd rekindle that old magic on a dude with one working hip. That's on management.



Kucherov hasn't scored a goal in 15 straight playoff games. Let's shoot him into the sun too. The Rangers biggest problem is there are no other threats. Whenever Panarin is out, the offense dries up. Any good defensive (5v5) team keys on him and its over because nobody else can pass worth a shit.



Guentzel has Kucherov. Verhaege has Barkov, Tkachuk, Bennet and arguably the best team in the league.

Panarin had 4 GWG in last year's playoffs. Zibanejad had, let me look it up, oh, here it is. ZERO.

Florida shut him down and smothered him. Leading into that series Panarin was leading the team in scoring.



One player has NEVER won a cup. Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the league and is a wing, like Panarin, and has won one cup.

Panarin isn't the problem. It's the supporting cast.

McDavid is miles ahead of Panarin. Trying to shoehorn them into the same tier is just a wasted exercise so if you want to believe it, go for it but it's stupid and you should stop because I don't think you're stupid.

Fun fact: McDavid had 8 more points in last year's playoff run alone than Panarin has in 3 with the Rangers combined. Again there are levels to this game, they basically aren't even playing the same sport. One of them is one of the best to ever do it and a clear best player in the league right now. The other is not and has proven that he can't carry a team when it matters.

On the catering: I forget who had it (it may have been several people) but it was reported that Panarin refused to play with Kakko. Him getting off scot free and not facing any discipline for stupid play is well documented here.



This rest of this is utter nonsense and just a laundry list of the same excuses that have been made for this player.

I don't care who Guentzel plays with, HE ISN'T MAKING 11.6! Guentzel didn't have Crosby or Kucherov last year and he still had a better playoff run than anything Panarin has done in a Ranger uniform so you can miss me with this.

He can get the grace that Kucherov gets when he does this:

Screenshot 2025-05-09 at 9.52.06 AM.png


But lets take other guys out of the equation and just focus on the Rangers - Panarin has been outproduced by: Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox and has also produced less than Trocheck in the time that they've been teammates (still holds true if you want to use Trocheck's. Once again, forget the other elite guys, he's been getting out done by his own teammates (Zibanejad has 11 more points than Panarin, that isn't insignificant.) 5v5 he's been outproduced by Lafreniere who hasn't even gotten top 6 minutes in 2 of the 3 runs (side note: Laf is the only ranger with a xGF% above 50% in their 3 runs combined. He also leads the team in p/60 at ES, people should probably cool it on trying to run him out of town.)

Also the "keyed on" and smothered argument is dumb. Firstly, do you think other teams just let the top players skate by unimpeded? No, they play through it and either they make shit happen or they don't (Panarin more often than not, does not.) Secondly, Panarin didn't draw Barkov, Zibnanejad did so its not like he was even facing the Panthers match up guys (Zibanejad also drew J.Staal the series before.) Panarin was getting owned by the Panthers 2nd and 3rd wave. Cherry picking his gwg's is cute though (2 of those 4 were basically insurance goals that just ended up turning into a GWG, but okay, he had 4 GWG's, what a stud.)

Lastly I'd check your math. Zibanejad and Trocheck both had more points than Panarin leading into he Panthers series. Trocheck (his line mate mind you) continued to outperform and out produce him in the Panthers series. If he can do it, why couldn't the elite player? They faced the same competition.
Ditto Lafreinere.

And no, it's not because they drew the attention of the Panthers. It's because those guys either went to the areas of the ice that he couldn't/wouldn't go to or were able to create something by themselves.

The supporting cast has actually more or less given you bare minimum production (at least relative to expectaitons) or better in both of their conference finals runs. Theres one guy in the top 6 who has drastically underperformed. I'll let you guess who that is.

(They could have beaten the Panthers even with Panarin doing what he did if they had an actual capable body on the top pair instead of Lindgren and just left Trouba on the bottom pair so it isn't all on him, but he himself didn't do enough to help push them through.)

Edit: Here is a report that Panarin didn't want to play with Kakko, it was from Carp but I think Vince and/or Brooks had it too. So no, I wasn't making it up.

1746799452054.png
 
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All this offseason glazing that Canucks management is doing with Miller to try to redirect the fans from being mad at them is so funny. If you loved him so much, then why did you trade him!? It's not like you got a good return! You would have gotten an equal or better return for Pettersson. And like the Rangers, the Canucks are going to try to go right back to contending next year. Sounds like they could use a guy like Miller!
 
Whitewashing Panarin’s disappointing playoff resume is certainly a choice.

Meh. You can't just forget about the regular season when evaluating a player.

Panarin can definitely do better than he has in the post season, no question, but his contract covers the entire season not just the playoffs.

Are the Rangers a better team with or without Panarin? That's a pretty easy answer.

That being said, if this team fumbles again out of the gate and are teetering on the brink of a playoff spot at the next deadline, I move him without a second thought. He'd bring back A LOT of assets.

I'm not married to him being here but signing him wasn't a mistake. No one could've foreseen 1OA, 2OA, 7OA, 10OA all being less than the sum of their parts. If half of them turned out as good or better than we thought we'd be looking at all of this a lot differently.
 
Wish Othmann and Perreault were playing for USA at the world championships. Honesty I think it’s a tournament that’s a decent level for prospects right on the cusp of becoming NHL regulars. Kreider did well attending when he was a fresh face out of college
 
I'll repeat what I said before. I liked him in his short stint here and I think he could be a useful depth piece as a veteran 7/8 d-man. If he would be able to objectively look at the opportunity he would be a good fit here

He's not a good fit because he clearly does not want to be a 7/8 d-man. He'd be better off going somewhere like SJ where he will be more of the 6/7 role.
 
McDavid is miles ahead of Panarin. Trying to shoehorn them into the same tier is just a wasted exercise so if you want to believe it, go for it but it's stupid and you should stop because I don't think you're stupid.

Fun fact: McDavid had 8 more points in last year's playoff run alone than Panarin has in 3 with the Rangers combined. Again there are levels to this game, they basically aren't even playing the same sport. One of them is one of the best to ever do it and a clear best player in the league right now. The other is not and has proven that he can't carry a team when it matters.

On the catering: I forget who had it (it may have been several people) but it was reported that Panarin refused to play with Kakko. Him getting off scot free and not facing any discipline for stupid play is well documented here.



This rest of this is utter nonsense and just a laundry list of the same excuses that have been made for this player.

I don't care who Guentzel plays with, HE ISN'T MAKING 11.6! Guentzel didn't have Crosby or Kucherov last year and he still had a better playoff run than anything Panarin has done in a Ranger uniform so you can miss me with this.

He can get the grace that Kucherov gets when he does this:

View attachment 1032673

But lets take other guys out of the equation and just focus on the Rangers - Panarin has been outproduced by: Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox and has also produced less than Trocheck in the time that they've been teammates (still holds true if you want to use Trocheck's. Once again, forget the other elite guys, he's been getting out done by his own teammates (Zibanejad has 11 more points than Panarin, that isn't insignificant.) 5v5 he's been outproduced by Lafreniere who hasn't even gotten top 6 minutes in 2 of the 3 runs (side note: Laf is the only ranger with a xGF% above 50% in their 3 runs combined. He also leads the team in p/60 at ES, people should probably cool it on trying to run him out of town.)

Also the "keyed on" and smothered argument is dumb. Firstly, do you think other teams just let the top players skate by unimpeded? No, they play through it and either they make shit happen or they don't (Panarin more often than not, does not.) Secondly, Panarin didn't draw Barkov, Zibnanejad did so its not like he was even facing the Panthers match up guys (Zibanejad also drew J.Staal the series before.) Panarin was getting owned by the Panthers 2nd and 3rd wave. Cherry picking his gwg's is cute though (2 of those 4 were basically insurance goals that just ended up turning into a GWG, but okay, he had 4 GWG's, what a stud.)

Lastly I'd check your math. Zibanejad and Trocheck both had more points than Panarin leading into he Panthers series. Trocheck (his line mate mind you) continued to outperform and out produce him in the Panthers series. If he can do it, why couldn't the elite player? They faced the same competition.
Ditto Lafreinere.

And no, it's not because they drew the attention of the Panthers. It's because those guys either went to the areas of the ice that he couldn't/wouldn't go to or were able to create something by themselves.

The supporting cast has actually more or less given you bare minimum production (at least relative to expectaitons) or better in both of their conference finals runs. Theres one guy in the top 6 who has drastically underperformed. I'll let you guess who that is.

(They could have beaten the Panthers even with Panarin doing what he did if they had an actual capable body on the top pair instead of Lindgren and just left Trouba on the bottom pair so it isn't all on him, but he himself didn't do enough to help push them through.)

Edit: Here is a report that Panarin didn't want to play with Kakko, it was from Carp but I think Vince and/or Brooks had it too. So no, I wasn't making it up.

View attachment 1032677
Jesus....Cizikas? Coleman? Hyman?

BARF.

We don't need older players who will decline faster than a banana left out in a blizzard.
 

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