Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

I like Blake. I think he's done some good things with that roster considering they didn't have a ton of high picks.

They keep running into an Oilers team they were never going to be better than because they didn't draft McDavid and Draisaitl.

I think similarly to Colorado, this is a version of the Oilers that they should have beaten.

LA was low key really, really good this year (especially down the stretch) and they were able to face the Oilers with out Ekholm or a goalie that could make a save.

They had Edmonton dead to rights and basically dragged them back into the series. The second they turtled up and blew that lead in game 4 that series was over.

I was more surprised how easily Edmonton was able to slice through their structure. Some of that is McDraisaitl, but they've got a bit of a Winnipeg thing going on where the playoffs start and they look like a completely different team.

 

[Machinehead]

They had a 2nd and 5th overall. Byfield was chalk, Turcotte they galaxy brained at the time and he's been a bust. They also had 500 centers in the pipeline and busted all of them other than Byfield and Vilardi who moved to LW,

Traded 200c on the dollar for PLD only to give him a huge deal and trade him for a goalie a year later. He's been GM for 8 years and been riding Kopitar and Doughty the whole time from the previous administration.

These are not unfair points, I just really like the overall team he's built and their style of play.

Looking at the Byfield and Turcotte drafts, I don't know if they ever had the opportunity to get the type of difference making talent they really needed.

This is why people harp on that type of talent being in the pool or not.

You have to play the hand you are dealt and the Rangers havent been in a position to draft high for that elite talent in 5 years. Lafreniere and Kakko have been disappointments for various reasons. We can blame the player development for some of it but in Kakko's case he kinda just sucks it seems. Maye these young kids surprise us if we give them the chance. Its a pretty young team aside from a handful of guys.

I agree that we should give them a chance.

At the same time, shipping out vets and giving your kids a real chance, and then addressing the holes that are still apparent might take a year or two.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it feels like you still want to contend in 2025-26 based on things you have said, and nothing about your actual suggestions indicates that.

 

[effen]

You have to play the hand you are dealt and the Rangers havent been in a position to draft high for that elite talent in 5 years. Lafreniere and Kakko have been disappointments for various reasons. We can blame the player development for some of it but in Kakko's case he kinda just sucks it seems. Maye these young kids surprise us if we give them the chance. Its a pretty young team aside from a handful of guys.

Laf didn't move his feet this year, everyone not named Mario Lemieux or Jaromir Jagr sucks if they don't move their feet. His problem is between his ears. Kakko's just a guy who probably peaked at 17 which happens.

 

[McRanger92]

These are not unfair points, I just really like the overall team he's built and their style of play.

Looking at the Byfield and Turcotte drafts, I don't know if they ever had the opportunity to get the type of difference making talent they really needed.

This is why people harp on that type of talent being in the pool or not.

I agree that we should give them a chance.

At the same time, shipping out vets and giving your kids a real chance, and then addressing the holes that are still apparent might take a year or two.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it feels like you still want to contend in 2025-26 based on things you have said, and nothing about your actual suggestions indicates taht.

Contend for a playoff spot yes, which we will. Contending for a Cup is kind of arbitrary because I dont think anyone is beating Florida and the West has 3-4 teams better than any non-Florida East team. Im perfectly fine with being worse on paper for a couple years.

 

[TGWL]

Yeah, let's miss the POs next year.

Would we not do that with feeding Goodrow minutes?

 

[Machinehead]

I'll tell you one thing, if you're moving forward with more of a north-south type of pipeline, we really need to stop with the top six/bottom six caste system that has been part of our culture since the letter went out.

Scoring lines that are predictable and have to cheat don't work. Grind lines that score 3 goals every 20 games don't work.

We need to start incorporating different styles of play throughout our lineup. Berard is the perfect compliment next to two scorers and it frustrates me so much that they seem to kind of have him pegged as just a bottom six guy already.

I'm so glad Cuylle started the year with that 24% shooting binge because that's the only thing that broke him out of the caste system. Except that he hasn't f***ing backchecked since. Once you enter the upper caste, you forget how to do anything but score.

That whole entire culture has to die.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If the plan is to give Pitt this years pick and keep next year, then yes they should absolutely run it back with the same defense players as this year lol

 

[Raspewtin]

I like the Rangers youth a lot. I dont like handwaving it because the guys dont show up on top prospect lists or not drafted high.

Cuylle, Rempe, Edstrom, Berard, Othmann, Perreault all should have NHL roles next year. Sykora, Roobreck, Laba and others can challenge for spots as the season goes on imo. Sullivan has on record lamented the fact that Pittsburgh hasnt had many young players to incorporate. He's got his chance now. Let the kids play. There's the upside. I just wish one of them was a center lol. Maybe try Edstrom or Perreault there?

I like these players too but, at absolute best, that's one top 6 player, 3 middle 6 players, and the rest are 4th liners. that's kind of the whole issue.

 

[kovazub94]

Blake is no superstar exec, but he's much better than Drury

There were two trades that should be looked collectively that absolutely killed LAK worse than anything Drury's done in his tenure (which is basically Buchnevich trade). Do I need to tell you what I'm talking about?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

That whole entire culture has to die.

Cultures die extremely difficultly.

I'd try another fire sale. Then a long term economic plan to maximize assets and overflow the roster with prospects.

Somehow start hitting in the early rounds, keep hitting in the late rounds.

Then, as you said with Cuylle, more players are gonna force themselves out of that caste system and it'll hopefully die.

 

[McRanger92]

I like these players too but, at absolute best, that's one top 6 player, 3 middle 6 players, and the rest are 4th liners. that's kind of the whole issue.

The issue is that we have a half a forward group or more that are close to NHL ready? Id say the issue is more that none of them play center. Which is one of the reasons they traded for JT Miller and have Trocheck signed long-term. Im on record saying Id gladly move KAM/Schneider?Laf for a young C with top 6 upside. I know the common refrain is we need a franchise cornerstone center but you dont really snap you fingers and make one appear. Even if we did a full rebuild again there's no guarantee of that. And its not just us. Its a leaguewide problem. Im sure the Rangers will be in the sweepstakes for McDavid and Eichel in a year.

 

[McRanger92]

Cultures die extremely difficultly.

I'd try another fire sale. Then a long term economic plan to maximize assets and overflow the roster with prospects.

Somehow start hitting in the early rounds, keep hitting in the late rounds.

Then, as you said with Cuylle, more players are gonna force themselves out of that caste system and it'll hopefully die.

We literally just did this and thats how we got this culture in the first place lol. Culture wasnt the problem during the Lundqvist era, it was the solution. The talent was the issue.

 

[McRanger92]

There were two trades that should be looked collectively that absolutely killed LAK worse than anything Drury's done in his tenure (which is basically Buchnevich trade). Do I need to tell you what I'm talking about?

Faber and Vilardi?

 

[JohnC]

On the bolded, this is the case more often than any of us want to admit.

Colorado was a wagon in 2022 as they were but they faced...

A back up goalie and an overmatched Nashville in rd 1 (sweep)
A back up goalie after 2+ games vs a more game St Louis (6 gms)
Mike Smith in Rd 3 (sweep)
A Tampa team that was gassed and banged up to hell in the middle of their 3rd consecutive finals appearance (6 gms.)

I'll maintain that if Markstrom didn't forget how to stop a puck during the 2nd round that year, Colorado doesn't win and Tampa 3 peats. Colorado may have gotten by Calgary, but Calgary would have taken a chunk out of them that they wouldn't have been able to get over in the next round.

Matchups are almost as important as your roster. Last year's Carolina team is probably the best iteration of the Hurricanes over the last half decade or so that they've been good.

They'll likely sandwich that roster with 2 ECF appearances bc they had better matchups. NYR was a tough opponent for them bc Igor stops all of their bullshit and they figured out Carolina's PK before the series even started.

It also can’t be understated that Colorado has not had sustained contention. A Cup is a Cup, but they have 1 appearance past the 2nd round in 9 years and that was 2022.

 

[tiggles]

Yeah, not really understanding the love for Blake.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah, not really understanding the love for Blake.

Drury Derangement Syndrome

 

[n8]

He's dead serious. And there's no data out there going to change his mind.

The guy's been championing the psychology of the game for years.

I'm a big supporter of psychology, having a champion's mindset, and mental resilience but I just read some WEIRD ASS fan fic there. Players trade against their will (that's like 90% of the players)? Himmy having anything to do with their loss? No mention of a Raantanan hat trick???

 

[n8]

Agree about Kakko and Lafreniere being drafted where they were and probably would've been drafted as they were by every other NHL team.

Agree on your other points as well.

"Getting a 'Top C' in the draft" was just bad luck the two years they were actually in a position to draft 1OA and 2OA.

No one should question those draft choices. Those were consensus picks. I think we're just terrible at developing players. We also had the bad luck of getting those two during the height of the pandemic which I think is a small factor but still a factor.

Also in terms of luck, yeah if we had the lotto wins reversed, our consensus picks would have been Jack Hughes and Quinton Byfield. Both centers. Instead we got stuck with consensus wingers. What we really need is a 2nd round diamond like Patrice Bergeron or Brayden Point. I think Derek Stepan is our best draftee in that category.

 

[Riche16]

I think the "you need x,y,z players" to win a cup is an exhausting conversation because more than half the time, you need to go back and retroactively apply a label to a player.

For example, no one on the planet would have tagged Eichel as a true cup caliber #1C before he won - He was coming off of his third straight sub PPG injury riddled season.

The best teams are usually the ones with the fewest holes (that was not Colorado this year and its a point I tried to make several times while they were being glazed by everyone, Lindgren was their #4 and he is legit a guy you cannot win with in your lineup) and players who are capable of playing to a certain level - It's not about a label because it's not always the best guys who come through (see: #10)

Sometimes those guys are elite (MacK, Crosby, Point, M.Tkachuk, etc) and sometimes they aren't (Marchessault, ROR, Verhaeghe, etc.)

The NYR's issue is that they have suffered from pretty much all of the above.

Just using last year as an example - Too many holes (Lindgren and Trouba in their top 4, a 3rd line that accounted for 3 goals for the entirety of the playoffs.)

Not enough people capable of really stepping up and playing at an elite level - If we're using last year as an example, They got more than they expected out of Trocheck, Igor, Lafreniere and some how, a 6 goal run from Goodrow (I will forever be annoyed that they booted Goodrow's output because you just aren't getting that from a 4th liner again.)

The only guy who really performed at an elite level of that group was Igor (whose play in the post season is honestly underrated here. He's levels better in the playoffs than even Hank was.) Trocheck (bordered on "elite" performance) and Laf gave you very strong supplementary production/performance, but everyone else did either bare minimum to carry their weight or were underwhelming, bad or catastrophically bad. Goodrow honestly sucked, but 6 goals is f***ing 6 goals. Thats more than the Rangers got from everyone other than Kreider, Trocheck and Laf.

It would have also helped if our actual "elite" player actually played like one.

tl;dr: "elite" or "generational" labels don't really matter. You need to have quality depth and players capable of stepping up. Rangers haven't had enough of either and it's been both masked by how good #30 has been in the playoffs and magnified by #10 basically turning into a run of the mill secondary scorer in the playoffs.

I agree with this. It boils down to who can play "playoff hockey".

There's very few playoff performers on this team. Players like Bread who need space will never get that space in the post season. Everything is tighter.

It kinda explains the Goodrow fluke (which it most certainly was) because he knows how to play playoff hockey, but him elevating his game is still not enough. We need someone who can elevate & take over a game or at LEAST be a threat every time he hits the ice.

Is JT Miller a player of that ilk? Even if he is, 90% of the team isn't.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Faber and Vilardi?

I don’t think the Faber one was THAT bad.

The PLD one though? Yeah

 

[Alluckks]

If the plan is to give Pitt this years pick and keep next year, then yes they should absolutely run it back with the same defense players as this year lol

Get the feeling that they want to use this year as another tear down year to remove some fat, then next year is the big shove to go all in for Eichel in free agency and go from there

 

[IDvsEGO]

Get the feeling that they want to use this year as another tear down year to remove some fat, then next year is the big shove to go all in for Eichel in free agency and go from there

and I have absolutely no issue with that and its kinda what I want. I would like to see them go after McD though and not Eichel.
But if they're gonna tear down, they've gotta give up the pick. Do it right.

 

[bhamill]

I like these players too but, at absolute best, that's one top 6 player, 3 middle 6 players, and the rest are 4th liners. that's kind of the whole issue.

The same way Cuylle overachieved, it’s not crazy to think another player out of the sizable group of forwards. may as well. Looking at young players only, you’ve got Laf Gabe and Cuylle that are good bets as top six, if we get one more overachiever that is 4 of the top six slots filled (and I’d assume JT and Troch will be hanging around, though Troch may be 3C bound)… plus we should be able to easily populate the bottom two lines from within the system… Rempe, Chem, Ed, Laba, Roo, Sykora, Berard… plus Carrick and Parsinen. If we can fill out the D and get a higher ceiling prospect or two out of the next two drafts, and by possibly trading Kreider, Zibs and/or Pan, nab an UFA or two (with the cap saved by populating the bottom six in house), we are not in a bad position at all to build a good youngish team.
We will likely have more bottom sixers than we need, even with a couple “underachieving” and being AHLers. Those can be insurance or traded for picks/assets in other areas.

 

[Alluckks]

and I have absolutely no issue with that and its kinda what I want. I would like to see them go after McD though and not Eichel.
But if they're gonna tear down, they've gotta give up the pick. Do it right.

Well, yeah, but McDavid isn't gonna make it to free agency and if he does I believe he chooses to remain in Canada.

Eichel coming here with Sullivan, Miller, Trocheck (America boys, etc.) does make sense.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Well, yeah, but McDavid isn't gonna make it to free agency and if he does I believe he chooses to remain in Canada.

Eichel coming here with Sullivan, Miller, Trocheck (America boys, etc.) does make sense.

I mean if he wants to avoid the Toronto circus, still be on an O6 team, still be in a big city, on a team that can contend immediately.
I don't see him limiting his search to Toronto. Plenty of Canadian guys who were expected to look at Toronto end up playing in the states.