Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[haohmaru]

watching Lindgren get absolutely smoked as Rantanen blows right by him made me smile

Watching a team with a top 3 center and arguably the best defenseman in the game lose to a team without two of it's best players makes me smile thinking about all the geniuses with their GM hats on around here who think having those two things automatically leads to cups and dynasties.

Winning the Stanley Cup is incredibly hard.

Look at Ovechkin. All time goal leader. Hart trophies. Ross trophies. One cup in TWENTY years and he's as generational as it gets.

 

[tlk]

Winning the Stanley Cup is incredibly hard.

Look at Ovechkin. All time goal leader. Hart trophies. Ross trophies. One cup in TWENTY years and he's as generational as it gets.

largely facilitated by a standout season from a wayward coke-head.

 

[NYR Viper]

Mika to the Wild. All of his homies are there. They can talk in their native tongue and John Hynes won't know they are talking shit about him. Mika has a history of undermining coaches. Gustavsson, Brodin and JEE. Even Mika's BFF is there. Zukey. He was one season remaining on his contract. I think the Wild could give him another short extension. One year. Kaprizov is BFF's with Zuccarello and the Wild need to re-sign Kiril. Keeping Zukey will make Kiril happy.

I read Mike Russo's post mortem of the Wild's loss to Vegas in The Athletic. Mike mentioned a few free agent options but he wrote the Wild are leery of a 7 year free agent contract to someone like Brock Nelson. Mika has five more seasons. Shorter. I would take back Ryan Hartman at $4M AAV for the next two seasons to make the money more feasible for the Wild so the Rangers don't need to retain. Hartman has a 15 team no trade starting in July. NMC right now. Hartman had a good playoff for the Wild. He can be a very dirty player at times and his last suspension was a walk up call for him. The Rangers can use another center to lessen the workload on Trocheck. The Rangers need more physical or even dirty players.

Mika to the Wild for Hartman. Can the Rangers get a prospect(Liam Ohgren) and pick added from the Wild? Mika has some good hockey remaining. The Wild have some quality wingers in Kaprizov and Boldy. Zibanejad would be a good player for Minnesota. The Rangers can't have Mika trying to sabotage Sullivan. He needs to go. Explain to him in both English and Swedish. Your services are no longer required here.

Panarin($11,642,857) to Colorado for Necas($6.5M) and Manson($4.5M). Money works. Panarin gets an extension in Denver for waiving his NMC. Necas had a disappointing series against Dallas. The Rangers sign Necas to an extension. Manson is an expiring contract next summer. They need to win with McKinnon and Makar still in their primes. Panarin is a better player than Necas.

I’ve been touting that Minnesota deal for a while. It makes sense on multiple fronts. I also think Zibanejad would do better in a smaller market. Less attention.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Mika to the Wild. All of his homies are there. They can talk in their native tongue and John Hynes won't know they are talking shit about him. Mika has a history of undermining coaches. Gustavsson, Brodin and JEE. Even Mika's BFF is there. Zukey. He was one season remaining on his contract. I think the Wild could give him another short extension. One year. Kaprizov is BFF's with Zuccarello and the Wild need to re-sign Kiril. Keeping Zukey will make Kiril happy.

I read Mike Russo's post mortem of the Wild's loss to Vegas in The Athletic. Mike mentioned a few free agent options but he wrote the Wild are leery of a 7 year free agent contract to someone like Brock Nelson. Mika has five more seasons. Shorter. I would take back Ryan Hartman at $4M AAV for the next two seasons to make the money more feasible for the Wild so the Rangers don't need to retain. Hartman has a 15 team no trade starting in July. NMC right now. Hartman had a good playoff for the Wild. He can be a very dirty player at times and his last suspension was a walk up call for him. The Rangers can use another center to lessen the workload on Trocheck. The Rangers need more physical or even dirty players.

Mika to the Wild for Hartman. Can the Rangers get a prospect(Liam Ohgren) and pick added from the Wild? Mika has some good hockey remaining. The Wild have some quality wingers in Kaprizov and Boldy. Zibanejad would be a good player for Minnesota. The Rangers can't have Mika trying to sabotage Sullivan. He needs to go. Explain to him in both English and Swedish. Your services are no longer required here.

Panarin($11,642,857) to Colorado for Necas($6.5M) and Manson($4.5M). Money works. Panarin gets an extension in Denver for waiving his NMC. Necas had a disappointing series against Dallas. The Rangers sign Necas to an extension. Manson is an expiring contract next summer. They need to win with McKinnon and Makar still in their primes. Panarin is a better player than Necas.

If wild do this , it would be Mikka for Rossi straight up and nothing else. Maybe Freddy would be added byt They aren't adding a top prospect for a player like Mikka

 

[MrAlmost]

Z to the Wild makes the most sense out of any possible trades out there. I dont know if a straight swap with Rossi is likely, but that deal would work for both teams. Do they want Kreider too? Rossi and Hartman for Z and Kreider? Would make their top 9 pretty formidable and would immediately improve their PP and PK which has been lackluster. Hopefully Drury and Guerin are talking.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

and if he goes down that road at all, should be for zib
Kreider either returns to good form, worth keeping or keep him ltir

One problem there. Zib has a NMC and can't be waived. Kreider has a NTC and can be waived. Also if it were the same situation, 100% of GMs waive the 25 point player over the 60 point player.

 

[NYR Viper]

I really think that any trade that sends Zibanejad to Minnesota would return Hartman Trenin. That's $8.5m out and $7.5m in. Perhaps the Rangers could find a home for Trenin elsewhere but that's likely the basis for the deal plus prospect(s) and pick(s)

 

[Profet]

Watching a team with a top 3 center and arguably the best defenseman in the game lose to a team without two of it's best players makes me smile thinking about all the geniuses with their GM hats on around here who think having those two things automatically leads to cups and dynasties.

Winning the Stanley Cup is incredibly hard.

Look at Ovechkin. All time goal leader. Hart trophies. Ross trophies. One cup in TWENTY years and he's as generational as it gets.

Of course it's not automatic. But it does give you a chance.

And then you mention how Ovechkin (a wing) only has one cup in "TWENTY" years...

YES! That is the entire point. You don't go for wingers. You go for centers. Wingers just don't have the same impact on the game night after night. Do they have stand out nights? Yes. But a true franchise center is way more valuable to a contending team than a franchise winger.

 

[bhamill]

Jacob Trouba on His Trade to Anaheim

Jacob Trouba spoke with local media about his trade to the Anaheim Ducks.

thehockeynews.com

Things transpired quickly for Trouba in swapping the Blueshirt for an orange one. The 30-year-old defenseman said that "there was a threat" of being placed on waivers if he didn't accept one of the trade scenarios proposed to him by the Rangers organization. He has a 15-team no-trade list.
"Yesterday morning was 'Accept this trade or we're scratching you' and I said, 'OK' and then it was 'Accept this trade or you're going on waivers' and I said, 'OK.' And then it got to a point where I felt comfortable with Anaheim and that was the place I wanted to go. I guess you could say I'm thankful (the Ducks) made that happen. (It's) unfortunate how it all happened."

If Anaheim wasn't on his No Trade list, he doesn't accept anything.

Thanks bud.
So it looks like he got McDonoughed. Threatened with scratching or waivers to get him to accept the trade.

 

[bhamill]

Evidence was given that he had to waive, but apparently Trouba had set up his 15-team NTC to try to prevent a trade anywhere at all. Any team that could afford his contract on the cap was on his no trade list, and that included Anaheim. Columbus was another place on his no trade list, and given the option between there or Anaheim he chose Anaheim for the exact reason you mentioned.

I’ve mentioned this before, but being up front with Trouba before trying to trade him last June much more likely ends up with Trouba putting together a more reasonable list that would’ve allowed Drury to get a deal done over the summer. Maybe it doesn’t and Trouba acts the same way, who knows. But the the chances would’ve been better.

You would think a player was required to submit his list on July 1st. If I was a GM I’d ask for every player who had a list to submit it July 1st whether I was planning to try to trade them or not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Thanks bud.
So it looks like he got McDonoughed. Threatened with scratching or waivers to get him to accept the trade.

I often side with players in terms of trades but I really do not see why this is such a big issue with these 2 players. If the players (Goody, Trouba) were playing well they would not have been told they were being scratched or waived. It was their own below expected on ice play that led to these moves not a GM being evil imo. I almost feel like they had a sense of entitlement. That they felt like they deserved to be on the ice for the NYR regardless of how they played.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Thanks bud.
So it looks like he got McDonoughed. Threatened with scratching or waivers to get him to accept the trade.

5 months too late. Drury should've done that last summer when him & his agent out maneuvered him filling his no trade list with teams that couldn't afford him or didn't need a RD.

 

[bhamill]

I often side with players in terms of trades but I really do not see why this is such a big issue with these 2 players. If the players (Goody, Trouba) were playing well they would not have been told they were being scratched or waived. It was their own below expected on ice play that led to these moves not a GM being evil imo. I almost feel like they had a sense of entitlement. That they felt like they deserved to be on the ice for the NYR regardless of how they played.

Yeah. I’m not thrilled with the coercion, in Trouba’s case, but apparently it’s not unheard of, nor prohibited. I still look at the Goodrow thing as 100% fine. No one tried to coerce him, no one threatened him. No compensation from the claiming team. He was simply waived. That being said, Drury doing this isn’t a reason I’d want to get rid of him.

 

[McRanger92]

It’s imperative we remove Mika and Panarin from the roster. I like Sullivan but it doesn’t matter if you can’t get buy in from your top players. I have no reservations on Trocheck, JT or even a healthy Kreider to be honest once the bad influence is removed. Lafreniere too needs to prove it again if he’s still here. 20Mil to Panarin and Mika to underperform and be distractions in the room.

 

[bhamill]

5 months too late. Drury should've done that last summer when him & his agent out maneuvered him filling his no trade list with teams that couldn't afford him or didn't need a RD.

But it was “mean”!
Who knows? Maybe on the heels of players pouting over Goodrow being waived he didn’t think it was a good idea to immediately pressure Trouba to leave as well. Some of these guys may have cried so hard they may have died of dehydration.

 

[bhamill]

It’s imperative we remove Mika and Panarin from the roster. I like Sullivan but it doesn’t matter if you can’t get buy in from your top players. I have no reservations on Trocheck, JT or even a healthy Kreider to be honest once the bad influence is removed. Lafreniere too needs to prove it again if he’s still here. 20Mil to Panarin and Mika to underperform and be distractions in the room.

I’d rather we moved them, but they’d have to want to be moved. If they won’t buy in, I’d be fine with sending them home, or whatever you are allowed contractually to do that removes them from the room.

 

[McRanger92]

I’d rather we moved them, but they’d have to want to be moved. If they won’t buy in, I’d be fine with sending them home, or whatever you are allowed contractually to do that removes them from the room.

They need to be off PP1 if they aren’t going to buy in. Let’s see how fast they waive when they can’t stuff the stat sheet to pretend they are playing well. Sullivan and Drury have the job security now clearly.

 

[haohmaru]

Of course it's not automatic. But it does give you a chance.

And then you mention how Ovechkin (a wing) only has one cup in "TWENTY" years...

YES! That is the entire point. You don't go for wingers. You go for centers. Wingers just don't have the same impact on the game night after night. Do they have stand out nights? Yes. But a true franchise center is way more valuable to a contending team than a franchise winger.

Why is "TWENTY" in quotes and capitalized? That's how long he's been playing. And they won with him at (wing).

He's a GENERATIONAL winger, not a "franchise" winger.

MacKinnon is a GENERATIONAL center and he's won one in 12 years, is playing with a guy on a level that the Caps have never had (Makar), and just got bounced in the first round.

Are centers "more important" than wingers in the overall scheme of things? Sure.

The point of my post wasn't to debate the finer points of building a Cup winning team but rather that A LOT has to go right along the way no matter what your personnel is. Look at the Avalanche - two of probably the top 10 players in the game playing a team without two of its best players and their shaking hands after round one.

32 teams in the league. 3.1% chance your team is going to win the Cup. Those are horrendous odds. Look around at some of the franchise around the NHL - Leafs haven't been to a final, much less won the Cup, in 58 years. Canadians longer drought than us. Vancouver, Buffalo, Columbus, Utah/AZ, and on and on have never won a cup. Islanders 40+ years. Detroit no playoffs in almost a decade.

The NHL is a hard league. There's no magic formula to success. A lot can throw the train off the rails. Look at the Rangers this year. Cup favorites going into the season and it was a complete disaster.

If we're talking about center depth, how many teams have Miller/Zibanejad/Trocheck/Carrick level of center depth? And this team couldn't even make the playoffs. Are any of them Mackinnon level elite? No, but two of them have had 90+ point seasons. 3 of them 70+.

Being the last team standing in the NHL is a very difficult thing to do. And, of course, the two times the Rangers have has a 1OA or 2OA they made the pick that every team in the league would've made and end up with the short end of the stick.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah. I’m not thrilled with the coercion, in Trouba’s case, but apparently it’s not unheard of, nor prohibited. I still look at the Goodrow thing as 100% fine. No one tried to coerce him, no one threatened him. No compensation from the claiming team. He was simply waived. That being said, Drury doing this isn’t a reason I’d want to get rid of him.

I understand there are some hard feelings but lets say that Drury was replaced by the most polite GM in the history of the world. We will call the new GM Mr. Rodgers. What would Trouba/The Players expect Mr. Rodgers to do? Mr. Rodgers only has 4 choices.

1. Just continue to play Trouba for 2 more years no matter how his level of play had diminished on the ice for the NYR.

2. Scratch Trouba.

3. Waive Trouba.

4. Try to find a trade for Trouba.

 

[UnSandvich]

To be fair to Panarin, we've seen him play well under taskmaster type coaches with both Quenneville and Torts. I'm curious how things will work with Sullivan

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

There isn’t a formula to win a cup but I’d take the formula where I have a legitimate franchise level center above any other options lol

Of which the Rangers don’t have and probably won’t for a while

 

[IDvsEGO]

You would think a player was required to submit his list on July 1st. If I was a GM I’d ask for every player who had a list to submit it July 1st whether I was planning to try to trade them or not.

So what happened afaik is that drury approached trouba before he submitted the list.
Trouba asked for time and then gave the list blocking the teams drury gave. Covering himself.

 

[bhamill]

To be fair to Panarin, we've seen him play well under taskmaster type coaches with both Quenneville and Torts. I'm curious how things will work with Sullivan

We shall see.

 

[bhamill]

So what happened afaik is that drury approached trouba before he submitted the list.
Trouba asked for time and then gave the list blocking the teams drury gave. Covering himself.

I guess Drury underestimated how Machiavellian Trouba could be… hahaha.

 

[haohmaru]

I understand there are some hard feelings but lets say that Drury was replaced by the most polite GM in the history of the world. We will call the new GM Mr. Rodgers. What would Trouba/The Players expect Mr. Rodgers to do? Mr. Rodgers only has 4 choices.

1. Just continue to play Trouba for 2 more years no matter how his level of play had diminished on the ice for the NYR.

2. Scratch Trouba.

3. Waive Trouba.

4. Try to find a trade for Trouba.

Boo f***ing Hoo at Trouba. Did Guentzl disclose that after he had verbally accepted an offer from the Hurricanes that he was going to sign in Tampa instead? We he nice about it? Did Colorado pull the rug out from underneath Rantannen (payback is a bitch) without telling the player about it?

It's a business. Both parties do what's best for themselves. If players aren't happy, then can ask for a trade and teams usually accommodate this.

And, honestly, if I were the Ducks I'd tell Trouba to stop talking about the Rangers.