Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[bhamill]

Where was that version of Laf this season?

He was around for the first quarter. 15 pts at 5v5 in 19 games (I think)... When the team collapsed, so did he.

 

[SA16]

Larkin is a pretty poor 5v5 scorer for his reputation. He's the type of guy who gets overrated because he skates fast. If we look at all forwards who have played 2000+ minutes over the last three years, he ranks 127/302 in terms of pts/60.

He's a good player but if you're expecting him to be the 1C on a playoff team he's going to be one of the worst 1C there is.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Larkin isn't being traded for a single top ten pick...his return would be closer to what Eichel got, A first rounder, a roster player & a prospect.

I tend to agree with that although it depends where in the top 10 that pick was located. I think there is probably a big difference 1-5 vs 6-10.

I think the #11, Zibs and maybe something else is not a crazy proposal. I would not include a high prospect though. Eichel's ceiling was higher but so was the risk (neck).

 

[n8]

Svechnikov love is recency bias at it's best. He kicked the shit out of the Devils, cool.

The Devils are f***ing awful.

This reminds me of how some people were whining that the Rangers didn't make a run at Domi a few years ago after he scored twice against the Bruins in a game 7. Almost positive he went with out a goal the entire series against the Rangers that followed and that those 2 goals in g7 were the only 2 goals he scored for Carolina that entire run.

I remember him getting run over by Trouba. Thats as notable as he was in the Ranger series.

I think there is a chance WSH is going to beat CAR 4-1. If it goes 4-2, 4-3, it'll be because of some tight OT coin toss. Larkin isn't going to fix this team. I'd avoid.

 

[toNYRico]

He was around for the first quarter. 15 pts at 5v5 in 19 games (I think)... When the team collapsed, so did he.

Cuylle elevated his game this season. JT Miller produced as expected when he arrived. Mika picked it up. Panarin still produced and was solid down the stretch. Attributing Laf's collapse on the team instead of the player is something I won't do. He's just not a gamer nor someone who drives play / culture.

 

[bhamill]

Exactly. When does Laf start getting the reputation of being a coach killer like Mika and Kreids do? 13 has worn a C at every level, has pedigree of being first overall pick, yet had his greatest disappearing act on- and off-ice this season when team desperately needed some leadership and guys to take bull by horns. His '24 playoff performance was an aberration.

Maybe when he starts complaining in breakup day interviews about lack of communication instead of taking responsibility for his poor performance like he did... or at least when he's on the older side of 25, since 23 year olds who haven't really broken out in the NHL don't have much weight to throw around in the organization...
I'm constantly amazed when people hold a young player to the same standards as veterans on a team. Hahahahaha.

 

[Machinehead]

Larkin really turned heads at the 4 Nations. We would be miles ahead if Detroit was dumb enough to trade him here for Mika.

He may not have negative value, but you can be sure as shit that any potential deal involving Mika would require us to retain salary.

The 4 Nations was four games. The valuation conclusions based on a literal exhibition are exhausting.

 

[Machinehead]

Svechnikov is significantly closer to Brady Tkachuk than he is to Lafreniere

Saying this to me is like talking to an American about kilometres. Like I literally have no idea what the value of any of this even is.

 

[toNYRico]

Maybe when he starts complaining in breakup day interviews about lack of communication instead of taking responsibility for his poor performance like he did... or at least when he's on the older side of 25, since 23 year olds who haven't really broken out in the NHL don't have much weight to throw around in the organization...
I'm constantly amazed when people hold a young player to the same standards as veterans on a team. Hahahahaha.

Great; he's self-aware. Will that make him play better? That's exactly the problem. Laf hasn't broken out and we've been waiting and waiting and waiting. Again, what has he done away from Panarin?

 

[Boris Zubov]

The 4 Nations was four games. The valuation conclusions based on a literal exhibition are exhausting.

All I said was he turned heads. I didn't call him the second coming.

His production over the years along with his speed is enough to want us to drive Mika to Detroit & pick up Larson. This is all a waste of time however, there is no chance the Wings make that deal.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not here to kink shame but some of you are really nuts about ~62-point players.

 

[bhamill]

Cuylle elevated his game this season. JT Miller produced as expected when he arrived. Mika picked it up. Panarin still produced and was solid down the stretch. Attributing Laf's collapse on the team instead of the player is something I won't do. He's just not a gamer nor someone who drives play / culture.

Mika was shit as well. Laf was better in the first quarter than Mika was in the last. Panarin had his production fall to 75% of his previous year. Worse than Laf or Zib's decline, though a better over all performance. IMO the ONLY two players who lived up to expectations for the year were Cuylle and Carrick. I can't look at any other regular player and say "Yeah, he lived up to, or exceeded, expectations."
ALSO I didn't attribute Laf's collapse to the team. I merely stated the fact that they happened at the same time. Maybe it was ALL Laf's fault! Why don't you run with that one? That seems on brand.

 

[Siddi]

Cuylle elevated his game this season. JT Miller produced as expected when he arrived. Mika picked it up. Panarin still produced and was solid down the stretch. Attributing Laf's collapse on the team instead of the player is something I won't do. He's just not a gamer nor someone who drives play / culture.

Mikas point production in the 2nd half of the season doesnt count because of reasons.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

In what way? Do you value either Zibs or #11 individually as high as Larkin?

Larkin is overrated and the second his speed starts to go he will be another disaster contract we are looking to get rid of.

 

[bhamill]

Mikas point production in the 2nd half of the season doesnt count because of reasons.

Counts as much as his "play" in the first half... I mean, that's rational, no?

 

[Machinehead]

Zibanejad: *puts up 62 points*

HF: "He sucks go get this guy!"

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'm not here to kink shame but some of you are really nuts about ~62-point players.

18% of those points came in the last 6 games of the season, when the games were completely meaningless. Before that, he had 3 goals in the six weeks prior when the team was still fighting for the 8th seed. He really only looked like competent NHL player from New Years to the end of February.

 

[toNYRico]

Mika was shit as well. Laf was better in the first quarter than Mika was in the last. Panarin had his production fall to 75% of his previous year. Worse than Laf or Zib's decline, though a better over all performance. IMO the ONLY two players who lived up to expectations for the year were Cuylle and Carrick. I can't look at any other regular player and say "Yeah, he lived to, or exceeded, expectations."
ALSO I didn't attribute Laf's collapse to the team. I merely stated the fact that they happened at the same time. Maybe it was ALL Laf's fault! Why don't you run with that one? That seems on brand.

Laf's first quarter production was motivated by his pending extension. Then he went AWOL. I've seen no evidence from Laf to suggest he's able to drive play or culture. He's been completely ineffective and invisible when he's not with Panarin. And he's largely ineffective and invisible when he is with Panarin. How many more coaches are we going to bring in to try and find it with him before we move on?

 

[Machinehead]

18% of those points came in the last 6 games of the season, when the games were completely meaningless. Before that, he had 3 goals in the six weeks prior when the team was still fighting for the 8th seed. He really only looked like competent NHL player from New Years to the end of February.

Actually, in that post I was talking about Svechnikov and Tkachuk.

 

[bhamill]

Great; he's self-aware. Will that make him play better? That's exactly the problem. Laf hasn't broken out and we've been waiting and waiting and waiting. Again, what has he done away from Panarin?

MAYBE it won't make him play better, but blaming management CERTAINLY won't. And is a sign of a lack of personal responsibility. We don't need that on this team. Look in the f***ing MIRROR.
I'll say it again, this is a huge off season for Laf. If he doesn't take that step in '25-'26, its not exactly make or break on his career, but it probably does not bode well for his future as a NYR...

 

[Boris Zubov]

Actually, in that post I was talking about Svechnikov and Tkachuk.

I replied to your post regarding a 62 point player. I assumed that was Mika, but I missed the notation.

 

[Siddi]

Mika was shit as well. Laf was better in the first quarter than Mika was in the last.

Counts as much as his "play" in the first half... I mean, that's rational, no?

Yes, shit oct-dec. Good jan-apr.

I dont see how Mikas second half where we went almost PPG and ended up 2nd on the team in scoring falls below Lafs first half?

 

[bhamill]

Laf's first quarter production was motivated by his pending extension. Then he went AWOL. I've seen no evidence from Laf to suggest he's able to drive play or culture. He's been completely ineffective and invisible when he's not with Panarin. And he's largely ineffective and invisible when he is with Panarin. How many more coaches are we going to bring in to try and find it with him before we move on?

Glad you are a mindreader. I guess Laf getting his extension caused every other player on the team not named Cuylle or Carrick to underperform as well!
As I said above, probably after you started typing this, I could see NYR moving on if he does not take a step next season.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Yes, shit oct-dec. Good jan-apr.

I dont see how Mikas second half where we went almost PPG and ended up 2nd on the team in scoring falls below Lafs first half?

I'll repeat it for the guys in the cheap seats...

18% of those 62 points came in the last 6 games of the season, when the games were completely meaningless. Before that, he had 3 goals in the six weeks prior when the team was still fighting for the 8th seed. He really only looked like competent NHL player from New Years to the end of February.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Larkin is overrated and the second his speed starts to go he will be another disaster contract we are looking to get rid of.

Most overrated players have value. What value does he have vs 32 year old Zibs?