Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Harbour Dog]

well his contract also doesn't say he's required to be in the lineup or that he play PP/PK or a certain set amount of minutes

Honestly, I don't think he cares.

Maybe if he was a healthy scratch for a long period of time, but hockey isn't at the top of his priority list.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't have any social media to easily grab a link, but pretty sure the new york post had it on Twitter. If you Google 'Mika Zibanejad NMC', and check out the top hit Reddit thread, it's in there.

He basically said he's not going anywhere, and he knows what his contract says or something like that.

Okay thank you. I personally feel most people do not stay long in a work environment where they are not wanted. It is very uncomfortable. A player may decline a trade once but in my opinion the clock for them to leave starts then.

 

[Levitate]

Honestly, I don't think he cares.

I'd be fine with sitting him as the 13th F for the year to find out if that's the case.


I just keep coming back to people around the team repeatedly saying it's a tough group to coach, it's the most emotional and dramatic team they've ever covered, and Mika's out there challenging management after having an absolutely shit year and puttin gthe blame on them, and you think Dolan and Drury are gonna stand for it? You think Dolan sat in on exit interviews and listened to Mika said that and is fine with a guy trying to use his NMC to dictate team management? You think the Drury extension isn't a clear signal to someone like Zibanejad?

and by you I mean just a vague "you", hah.

If Mika wants to shut up and play and stop having the shittiest reasons to play like ass for more than half the year then great, get out there tiger.

If he's out there threatening the coach and GM about how they need to listen to him because he's got a NMC then great, he can sit in the pressbox for the season.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Okay thank you. I personally feel most people do not stay long in a work environment where they are not wanted. It is very uncomfortable. A player may decline a trade once but in my opinion the clock for them to leave starts then.

We'll see, I hope you're right.

I just really don't think he would mind being put on the backburner and just quietly earning a paycheque for the rest of his career.

 

[Levitate]

We'll see, I hope you're right.

I just really don't think he would mind being put on the backburner and just quietly earning a paycheque for the rest of his career.

Maybe, I kinda doubt it though, I think he enjoys playing, especially with his buddies, and I think he would like to win something.

As always, I'm some dumb asshole on the internet who doesn't actually know the details but if he's here next year (I do assume he will be) then IMO Drury and the coach have a chat with him and lay out their expectations for his play and make it clear that they expect him to be on board with them doing their jobs as they see fit and if he has a problem with that then he's going to sit or he can ask to be traded. No ambiguity.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I'd be fine with sitting him as the 13th F for the year to find out if that's the case.


I just keep coming back to people around the team repeatedly saying it's a tough group to coach, it's the most emotional and dramatic team they've ever covered, and Mika's out there challenging management after having an absolutely shit year and puttin gthe blame on them, and you think Dolan and Drury are gonna stand for it? You think Dolan sat in on exit interviews and listened to Mika said that and is fine with a guy trying to use his NMC to dictate team management? You think the Drury extension isn't a clear signal to someone like Zibanejad?

and by you I mean just a vague "you", hah.

If Mika wants to shut up and play and stop having the shittiest reasons to play like ass for more than half the year then great, get out there tiger.

If he's out there threatening the coach and GM about how they need to listen to him because he's got a NMC then great, he can sit in the pressbox for the season.

I'd be fine with it too. The other option is LTIR, which I do think he would be amenable to if the circumstances were right. But anything that would give us a chance to recoup some value would be better.

 

[McRanger92]

Im in the minority but I think Mika has trade value, especially to a team that historically cant get players to sign there. 8.5 million a year can give you a good life in any North American city.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Maybe, I kinda doubt it though, I think he enjoys playing, especially with his buddies, and I think he would like to win something.

As always, I'm some dumb asshole on the internet who doesn't actually know the details but if he's here next year (I do assume he will be) then IMO Drury and the coach have a chat with him and lay out their expectations for his play and make it clear that they expect him to be on board with them doing their jobs as they see fit and if he has a problem with that then he's going to sit or he can ask to be traded. No ambiguity.

Hopefully.

My own problem with that though, is that I just don't think he can be one of the more important guys on a cup winning team. And that's what we're asking him to do. If he never had the NMC, I'd be fine with some very light returns for him.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Im in the minority but I think Mika has trade value, especially to a team that historically cant get players to sign there. 8.5 million a year can give you a good life in any North American city.

He does for sure. We could get a decent return for him if he waived.

I just don't see that happening, and Mika agrees.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Perreault is a RW. Laf has been playing RW for the past two years. He could move back, I dunno.

I don't consider Mintyukov an established star talent?

I think I'm just pushing back on this feeling that "oh we have this one guy who has some value we should trade him while he has value". I've never been a huge fan of trying to cycle through players by selling at high value points because the returns often are unknown and getting rid of useful players because they have value hinders buildin ga team overall

for the right deal i'm fine with Cuylle being moved but I also think he's a player that we'll be saying "why don't we have a player like that" once he's gone. Value to the team is sometimes more than value on the trade market

it's just not a fair represenation of what I've said. I'm not saying trade the guy for the sake of trading him. I'm not saying he's a player we wouldn't miss. I'm saying exactly the opposite. But what people are disagreeing with me on is that I believe we have much much much bigger and more difficult holes to fill in this roster than the ones losing Cuylle creates. that's JMHO

 

[Levitate]

Hopefully.

My own problem with that though, is that I just don't think he can be one of the important guys on a cup winning team. And that's what we're asking him to do. If he never had the NMC, I'd be fine with some very light returns for him.

I think moving on from thinking of him as the teams 1C is the key point if he sticks around. Maybe it seems dumb as hell but like, if he did play well on Millers wing and that line produced well 5v5, is it the worst thing to have a $8.5mill top line wing with the way the cap is? Not really, IMO. But again it's a shift from him being "the guy" to riding shotgun or at least complementing Miller being the real center.

And all that depends on Zibanejad going out there and working and not bucking the coach. He can't have another year where he literally looks like an AHL player out there.

 

[McRanger92]

I think moving on from thinking of him as the teams 1C is the key point if he sticks around. Maybe it seems dumb as hell but like, if he did play well on Millers wing and that line produced well 5v5, is it the worst thing to have a $8.5mill top line wing with the way the cap is? Not really, IMO. But again it's a shift from him being "the guy" to riding shotgun or at least complementing Miller being the real center.

And all that depends on Zibanejad going out there and working and not bucking the coach. He can't have another year where he literally looks like an AHL player out there.

There's a negative locker room aspect to Zibanejad that is hard for me to ignore at this point. The organization is trying to make changes to the core, that much is certain. I think Drury will shop him around and if a trade is agreed to they will bring it to Mika. If he vetoes it, it will be leaked to the media one way or another and the fans will further turn on him. Mika's NMC is the primary reason imo that Kreider is as good as gone. I didnt like his behavior this year either but at least he has something of an excuse with the injuries. he also has much more of a history of showing up when it matters. They both wont be back next year. If they are, whats been the point of all this? Kreider is gonna get hit with the waivers threat like trouba if a team wants him that is on his No-trade list. Someone will definitely claim him and give the Rangers a free 6.5 mil in cap space. Thats a W for us.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We'll see, I hope you're right.

I just really don't think he would mind being put on the backburner and just quietly earning a paycheque for the rest of his career.

That is possible but I would be surprised. I think Zibs wants to play. I think he is in decline but is still a legit NHL player capable of 25 goals and 60 points. This season his play at center (especially defense) was bad but that could bounce back. I thought he played better at RW.

 

[bhamill]

Perreault is a RW. Laf has been playing RW for the past two years. He could move back, I dunno.

I don't consider Mintyukov an established star talent?

I think I'm just pushing back on this feeling that "oh we have this one guy who has some value we should trade him while he has value". I've never been a huge fan of trying to cycle through players by selling at high value points because the returns often are unknown and getting rid of useful players because they have value hinders buildin ga team overall

for the right deal i'm fine with Cuylle being moved but I also think he's a player that we'll be saying "why don't we have a player like that" once he's gone. Value to the team is sometimes more than value on the trade market

Not only is Mintyukov not an established star player, but his production dropped by about 30% from last year.
Cuylle is a player that we DON'T have a bunch of, and actually need MORE of... a young, physical, top six forward... EVERY team in the league wants more of that player... NYR may or may not have more coming, but I'm CERTAINLY not trading Cuylle as part of a numbers game. I'd need an overpayment for him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Im in the minority but I think Mika has trade value, especially to a team that historically cant get players to sign there. 8.5 million a year can give you a good life in any North American city.

He does. People often say guys cant be moved. Ryan Reeves got traded. Trouba got traded. Zibs is a 20 goal guy. He still has value even if we had to retain 2-3 mill a year.

 

[Levitate]

There's a negative locker room aspect to Zibanejad that is hard for me to ignore at this point. The organization is trying to make changes to the core, that much is certain. I think Drury will shop him around and if a trade is agreed to they will bring it to Mika. If he vetoes it, it will be leaked to the media one way or another and the fans will further turn on him. Mika's NMC is the primary reason imo that Kreider is as good as gone. I didnt like his behavior this year either but at least he has something of an excuse with the injuries. he also has much more of a history of showing up when it matters. They both wont be back next year. If they are, whats been the point of all this? Kreider is gonna get hit with the waivers threat like trouba if a team wants him that is on his No-trade list. Someone will definitely claim him and give the Rangers a free 6.5 mil in cap space. Thats a W for us.

Yeah I do agree. I think there are some very clear messages being sent to him right now and like I said even if he is still around next season it's going to be with tight leash for him to just do his job on the ice.

As mad as I am about all this shit I don't think Zibanejad is a bad guy, I think he and other parts of the core got caught up in the success that they did have and the close knit family feel they had going on, and they just wanted to keep that going and started being more and more resistant to other aspects of the team. They did not look critically at their own play and the actual weaknesses of the team and anything that rocked the boat was seen as bad. Eventually you have players saying "no, I can't play like that, you don't understand, we play this way and it just works" and "wait how can you make changes to the team like that you don't get it we're a good team and we need to stay that way to win"

again, talking out my ass though.

I want a guy who will show up, buy into what the coach is selling, and get out there on the ice and perform and not get caught up in other shit going on. Zero excuses for poor starts to the season. Just be prepared, buy in, and get it done

 

[McRanger92]

Not only is Mintyukov not an established star player, but his production dropped by about 30% from last year.
Cuylle is a player that we DON'T have a bunch of, and actually need MORE of... a young, physical, top six forward... EVERY team in the league wants more of that player... NYR may or may not have more coming, but I'm CERTAINLY not trading Cuylle as part of a numbers game. I'd need an overpayment for him.

I find it odd that people like to downplay Cuylle's upside. Why? He can skate, hit, play PK well, protect the puck. He's got a hard low shot that can beat goalies. He doubled his production between his rookie and sophomore years with negligible power play time. Doesnt turn 24 until next February. He's pretty untouchable to me as far as non-pipe dream trades go. I wouldnt include him in a trade for Brady Tkachuk

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah I do agree. I think there are some very clear messages being sent to him right now and like I said even if he is still around next season it's going to be with tight leash for him to just do his job on the ice.

As mad as I am about all this shit I don't think Zibanejad is a bad guy, I think he and other parts of the core got caught up in the success that they did have and the close knit family feel they had going on, and they just wanted to keep that going and started being more and more resistant to other aspects of the team. They did not look critically at their own play and the actual weaknesses of the team and anything that rocked the boat was seen as bad. Eventually you have players saying "no, I can't play like that, you don't understand, we play this way and it just works" and "wait how can you make changes to the team like that you don't get it we're a good team and we need to stay that way to win"

again, talking out my ass though.

I want a guy who will show up, buy into what the coach is selling, and get out there on the ice and perform and not get caught up in other shit going on. Zero excuses for poor starts to the season. Just be prepared, buy in, and get it done

Agree with all of this. Its not really a personal thing with wanting to trade him or Kreider or Panarin, as much as some fans want to make it seem that way. these guys have been here for a decade or the better part of it. Theyve not won the big prize and gotten complacent. Theyve let the goalie paper over their issues for awhile and it came to a head this year. Thats not a combination that can continue. I think they can all still be, and are, good players. they just arent the right players for this team anymore.

 

[Levitate]

Agree with all of this. Its not really a personal thing with wanting to trade him or Kreider or Panarin, as much as some fans want to make it seem that way. these guys have been here for a decade or the better part of it. Theyve not won the big prize and gotten complacent. Theyve let the goalie paper over their issues for awhile and it came to a head this year. Thats not a combination that can continue. I think they can all still be, and are, good players. they just arent the right players for this team anymore.

Yeah.
I think it's possible with a core shakeup that you can still keep someone around and it not be a big locker room issue but you need a coach who will keep it in line and some other locker room players who are ready to set a new tone for the team

 

[Vito Andolini]

I think moving on from thinking of him as the teams 1C is the key point if he sticks around. Maybe it seems dumb as hell but like, if he did play well on Millers wing and that line produced well 5v5, is it the worst thing to have a $8.5mill top line wing with the way the cap is? Not really, IMO. But again it's a shift from him being "the guy" to riding shotgun or at least complementing Miller being the real center.

And all that depends on Zibanejad going out there and working and not bucking the coach. He can't have another year where he literally looks like an AHL player out there.

The AHL player was 2nd on the team in points.

I know his year was subpar, but lets be really honest here...From a talent standpoint, our roster is not impressive, and we don't have a lot of quality prospects knocking down the door, and we don't have a lot of cap flexibility.

This team needs production. People dont like to acknowledge it but Zibanejad is still one of our most productive players. The chances of getting good value, especially if we choose to bench him or play other games with him, is not likely.

 

[McRanger92]

The AHL player was 2nd on the team in points.

I know his year was subpar, but lets be really honest here...From a talent standpoint, our roster is not impressive, and we don't have a lot of quality prospects knocking down the door, and we don't have a lot of cap flexibility.

This team needs production. People dont like to acknowledge it but Zibanejad is still one of our most productive players. The chances of getting good value, especially if we choose to bench him or play other games with him, is not likely.

Lafreniere and Cuylle both significantly out produced Mika at 5v5. Just give them time on PP1 and they will make up the difference easily, plus whatever player replaces Zibanejad at C whether through trade of free agency. If his replacement can even defend a lick thats even more gravy. replacing his production is a non-issue.

 

[Levitate]

The AHL player was 2nd on the team in points.

I know his year was subpar, but lets be really honest here...From a talent standpoint, our roster is not impressive, and we don't have a lot of quality prospects knocking down the door, and we don't have a lot of cap flexibility.

This team needs production. People dont like to acknowledge it but Zibanejad is still one of our most productive players. The chances of getting good value, especially if we choose to bench him or play other games with him, is not likely.

I think he got boosted by having a good end to his year.
Before Christmas though he really did look like an AHL player. Couldn't do anything right, fumbling all over the place, bad defense, lookedlost.

The point is that you can't have that guy playing like that for half the year if you're relying on him for production. You need someone who's gonna put up points and play at least decently well all season long.
If he does that going forward, then great, but we can't have a guy bumbling around the ice, botching the powerplay, and say "that's ok he scored some points later in the season"

and he has been bad lately about slow starts. That's gotta stop.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

So did "mega alpha" JT Miller.

Apparently JT was actually suspended and they used that as a cover up

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

This take is so f***ing backwards... You can not want a player that has mental health issues because it might manifest itself in how he plays but to mock him for it so f***ing out of line.

I’m sorry but sports is about winning and losing. A player who sits out because hes mentally stressed is just not that kinda guy I want to pay 6 x $6. Youre paid to play, compete and win

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Lets trade the veterans at forward before we start thinking about trading Will Cuylle. Talk about a guy we will regret not having in 3 years.

Will cuylle just posted a 20G/25A year without any PP time. All while setting the franchise record for hits. If he was on PP1 people would start comparing him to brady tkachuk