Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Machinehead]

This isn't Backyard Baseball where Pete rounds the bases twice before Mikey makes it to first. It's the best league in the world. The fastest players and the slowest players aren't egregiously far apart.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

not LaF for either

the opportunity, given he is injured w/something on both of his knees is Reinbacher
HUGE gamble
but if Rein knees are temp
then we are getting a D w/Leetch upside able to compete for a spot soon on elc and we unload LaF 7 or whatev that is

of course, risk knees will degrade his career
total crapshoot

It cracks me up that you poo poo on trading for a guy like Byram due to injury concerns but want to go all in on a trade for a guy with 2 bad knees. Typical bern.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Do you doubt pitch velocities in baseball? The measurement is the measurement. It even tells you exactly when it occurred on the site. 11/23/24 @ EDM at 2:25 of the 2nd period. It was on the PK on a backcheck starting from behind his own goal. Does it look to me like he's flying down the ice? No, it doesn't. But I also don't have the erroneous belief that I'm able to discern the difference between 24 mph and 22 mph by eye.

It's a measurement. Previously you've told me "my stats" were wrong because they included counting or calculations. Now measurements are wrong too? For reference, I obviously have no idea what the measurement error/tolerance of the system they are using in but it's surely not in the order of magnitude of mph.

Do you believe all skating and shooting speeds or just the ones today on a list? If you want to believe Vince skated 24mph that is 100% your right. I just do not believe it personally. If Vince did it this season than is it likely he did it in previous seasons as well when he was younger?

 

[SA16]

Do you believe all skating and shooting speeds or just the ones today on a list? If you want to believe Vince skated 24mph that is 100% your right. I just do not believe it personally. If Vince did it this season than is it likely he did it in previous seasons as well when he was younger?

I believe all of the measured data is measured correctly. 24 MPH does not mean exactly 24 MPH though. It may mean some value between 23.5 to 24.5. Or 23.8 to 24.2. I don't know what the tolerance of the measurement device is. I do know, that if the tolerance was that large you would see a lot of outliers on the lists and you don't.

Vince's high in the previous few years was around 23 mph. It is not impossible it can be higher at an older age. It's one instance. Jacob's deGrom average fastball at age 27 was 93.4. At age 33 it was 99.2. You can improve your technique as you get older to improve speed/velocity even if naturally your body would slow down.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I believe all of the measured data is measured correctly. 24 MPH does not mean exactly 24 MPH though. It may mean some value between 23.5 to 24.5 Or 23.8 to 24.2. I don't know what the tolerance of the measurement device is. I do know, that if the tolerance was that large you would see a lot of outliers on the lists and you don't.

I'm surprised you believe all measured data is 100% accurate. No room for errors at all? Hmmm.

If Vince was 5-8 years younger I could go along with it. I just find it unlikely in 2025. Just my opinion which is worth nothing

 

[NickyFotiu]

Can someone please post the fastest and slowest skater lists for defensemen ass well?

 

[SA16]

I'm surprised you believe all measured data is 100% accurate. No room for errors at all? Hmmm.

If Vince was 5-8 years younger I could go along with it. I just find it unlikely in 2025. Just my opinion which is worth nothing

I literally said there is measurement error and that 24 mph could mean 23.5 to 24.5 or 23.8 to 24.2 but I don't know what the tolerance of the system is. The error is not so great that it is giving false readings like saying a guy who is barely moving is skating 30 mph. You can easily spot check that considering there are no data points that show it and they give you a timestamp of when each fastest instance occurred so you can check the video if you'd like. As I said before, the instance for Trocheck was on a PK backcheck coming from behind his own net which is when you would expect the fastest speeds to occur.

 

[Levitate]

man, why you doubling down on this. You dont' believe it, fine. Let's move on.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I literally said there is measurement error and that 24 mph could mean 23.5 to 24.5 or 23.8 to 24.2 but I don't know what the tolerance of the system is. The error is not so great that it is giving false readings like saying a guy who is barely moving is skating 30 mph. You can easily spot check that considering there are no data points that show it and they give you a timestamp of when each fastest instance occurred so you can check the video if you'd like. As I said before, the instance for Trocheck was on a PK backcheck coming from behind his own net which is when you would expect the fastest speeds to occur.

Don't think I ever said a guy that was barely moving was doing 30 mph nor vice versa. If you say there are measurement errors than we agree. I didn't think Bobby Hull shot 118.3 mph either.

 

[Levitate]

Are you related to Adam Fox? Why does it offend you so much? This team needs to be dismantled with a wrecking ball. The team has zero leadership. Last time I checked Fox is one of the most senior members of the team. Fox is supposed to be elite and the best player on the team. I think he is too nice. Everyone says the Rangers don't do this and they need to do that but nobody does anything to correct it. They all collect their money and go home. They all keep quiet and just get paid. JT Miller was supposed to come into the team and whip everyone into shape. Yeah right. JT Messier. LOL.. JT blended in with everyone else. The money hits the bank account 2x a month and everything is good. This shit doesn't annoy you?

Because it's dumb as hell to trade a player like Fox who on his worst day is better than 95% of the defensemen in the league. You'll never get full value and likely won't see a player of his caliber again for years and years.
You're just mad and ranting. As usual.

Bedard is first by pretty far.

I'd take Laf over Hughes. They're both exciting. They're both flawed.


Gallant had more of a "Pond Hockey Systemless System." It soured in the second year.

Lavi brought a system that worked at first but overcorrected and was either too complicated and/or unsuitable to the roster in year two.

They both failed similarly, but I would argue for pretty different reasons.

Their AC's even made the bad stuff worse instead of mitigating deficiencies.

The players deserve their share of the blame, but the roller coaster nature of this core proves that there are some fairly high highs. If we can get through this low low, we just need a coach that won't ruin it.

Mika is that you? making excuses for the players and demanding that the coach get out of the way and let them play however they want to play?
IF so stop f***ing loafing and start producing and I don't give a shit about your mental state anymore.



Look there's something to needing to fit a system to the rosters you have but we know this group has tuned out coaches on purpose and not just because they "couldn't play the system" but because they didn't want to. And when they decide not to listen to the coach they do poorly. Then the coach gets fired.

Stop making excuses for this shit.

 

[Bob Richards]

Telling the officer arresting me for clocking my car going 105 mph through a school zone that I personally don’t feel like I was going that fast.

 

[Siddi]

And just HOW does that make them NOT powerplay scoring reliant? Yeah 30% of your scoring on the power play makes your stats reliant on that powerplay scoring. How is this mysterious? Your argument is what?
But of course I did not really expect anything BUT a defense of Zibs from you... You going to try to tell me Zibs had a Barkov or Jack Hughes level season? ahahahahaha. He was awful for most of the season, even when putting up points.

You made it sound like it was something bad when the entire leagues top players hower around 30%.

Also, you were the one who made that dumb comment about being in Kakko territory. Dont get all worked up because you were called out on a very bad take.

I dont think anyone is defending Mikas horrible season but bad takes tend to get called out on this board.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Telling the officer arresting me for clocking my car going 105 mph through a school zone that I personally don’t feel like I was going that fast.

If the radar gun was not properly calibrated in the last 60 days you may have a chance!

 

[NickyFotiu]

Telling the officer arresting me for clocking my car going 105 mph through a school zone that I personally don’t feel like I was going that fast.

Since this horse may not be dead yet speedometers in cars will also vary unless recently calibrated.

 

[Machinehead]

Telling the officer arresting me for clocking my car going 105 mph through a school zone that I personally don’t feel like I was going that fast.

This is just how people normally drive in New Jersey.

 

[bhamill]

You made it sound like it was something bad when the entire leagues top players hower around 30%.

Also, you were the one who made that dumb comment about being in Kakko territory. Dont get all worked up because you were called out on a very bad take.

I dont think anyone is defending Mikas horrible season but bad takes tend to get called out on this board.

It is what it is. Power play reliant. If you are driving your team's play and success, then its a good thing. Mika isn't doing that. Jack Hughes scored closer to 38% of his points on the powerplay. YES that is powerplay reliant... but he also scored the same 43 points as Mika, off the power play, in 20 games LESS than Mika. There's a false equivalency there whether you like it or not.
And how is a comment pointing out a fact, that without his powerplay scoring he is in Kakko's territory, dumb? It's TRUE.
You taking my comments as pure negatives, when what they are is comparatives, just shows your own biases. You apparently don't think much of Kakko, so comparing Mika's scoring to his set you off. That doesn't make the true comment "dumb," or a "bad take," its just inconvenient to a narrative you have, so you don't like it. You can hate it all day, you can insult me and/or my opinions, but at the end of the day, Mika scored 43 points off of the powerplay and Kakko scored 36 off of the powerplay. 7 whole points apart. Is it bad to be that close to Kakko's numbers? Guess that depends on what you think of Kakko... Personally I don't think they are 8.5million AVV numbers, but hey opinions vary. You are free to think they are perfectly cromulent. Hahahaha.

 

[Bob Richards]

This is just how people normally drive in New Jersey.

I must retract my joke at @NickyFotiu because this is 100% true

 

[Takeahnase]

It cracks me up that you poo poo on trading for a guy like Byram due to injury concerns but want to go all in on a trade for a guy with 2 bad knees. Typical bern.

Dude, I can’t even ever get to the actual hockey points without getting sidetracked into wondering why he communicates like a East German defector / spy trying to make it out of the iron curtain during the Cold War.

I always feel like I need to look over my shoulder reading a Bern post otherwise the Stasi are bound to catch me and send me to a dark cell where I am forced to listen to the same Quentin Byfield 3-team, 12 player proposal on 24-hour repeat.

The chair is against the wall.
John has a long moustache.
Zib must break him.

 

[Siddi]

It is what it is. Power play reliant. If you are driving your team's play and success, then its a good thing. Mika isn't doing that. Jack Hughes scored closer to 38% of his points on the powerplay. YES that is powerplay reliant... but he also scored the same 43 points as Mika, off the power play, in 20 games LESS than Mika. There's a false equivalency there whether you like it or not.
And how is a comment pointing out a fact, that without his powerplay scoring he is in Kakko's territory, dumb? It's TRUE.
You taking my comments as pure negatives, when what they are is comparatives, just shows your own biases. You apparently don't think much of Kakko, so comparing Mika's scoring to his set you off. That doesn't make the true comment "dumb," or a "bad take," its just inconvenient to a narrative you have, so you don't like it. You can hate it all day, you can insult me and/or my opinions, but at the end of the day, Mika scored 43 points off of the powerplay and Kakko scored 36 off of the powerplay. 7 whole points apart. Is it bad to be that close to Kakko's numbers? Guess that depends on what you think of Kakko... Personally I don't think they are 8.5million AVV numbers, but hey opinions vary. You are free to think they are perfectly cromulent. Hahahaha.

Look, you got called out on a bad take and YES, you used Kakko to bash on Mika. No amount off goal post moving will change that.

You had 100 other legitimate ways to bash him for his shitty season but you choose to bring forth a terribly flawed argument.

Edit: Deleted unecessary comment.

 

[bhamill]

Look, you got called out on a bad take and YES, you used Kakko to bash on Mika. No amount off goal post moving will change that.

You had 100 other legitimate ways to bash him for his shitty season but you choose to bring forth a terribly flawed argument.

Edit: Deleted unecessary comment.

They only thing "flawed" about it is that you don't like it. Its a TRUE take. It's objectively true. You made assumptions, I didn't move goal posts. I haven't changed a single thing I said. I personally am not a Kakko basher, in fact I was hoping things would work out for him here. At his 2.4 million AAV Kakko is not a bad player. Unfortunately Mika makes about 3.5x more than that and IS a bad value. Reality doesn't give a shit if it's upsetting to people. Its weird like that. If Kakko is making 6 million next year and scores like this year he will be a bad value. If Laf plays next year as badly as this past season, he will be a bad value at his 7.4 million. Mika at 8.5 million IS a bad value. That's just the reality of it. Your need to color my posts as "bad takes" when they are just accurate in a way you don't like doesn't alter reality.
You want a bad take? Comparing Mika to Jack Hughes.
EDIT: I guess I need to mention to you that I have things to do and won't be on here to acknowledge any further concerns until late tonight or maybe tomorrow. In fact, I doubt I'll have interest in continuing this when I DO come back on. So have whatever last word you need to have in Mika's defense, and have a nice night.

 

[McRanger92]

They only thing "flawed" about it is that you don't like it. Its a TRUE take. It's objectively true. You made assumptions, I didn't move goal posts. I haven't changed a single thing I said. I personally am not a Kakko basher, in fact I was hoping things would work out for him here. At his 2.4 million AAV Kakko is not a bad player. Unfortunately Mika makes about 3.5x more than that and IS a bad value. Reality doesn't give a shit if it's upsetting to people. Its weird like that. If Kakko is making 6 million next year and scores like this year he will be a bad value. If Laf plays next year as badly as this past season, he will be a bad value at his 7.4 million. Mika at 8.5 million IS a bad value. That's just the reality of it. Your need to color my posts as "bad takes" when they are just accurate in a way you don't like doesn't alter reality.

Did you think Mika's lawyer was gonna let you off easy?

 

[bhamill]

Did you think Mika's lawyer was gonna let you off easy?

I'll let him make the closing argument and I'll drop it. Hahahaha.

 

[Tawnos]

I literally said there is measurement error and that 24 mph could mean 23.5 to 24.5 or 23.8 to 24.2 but I don't know what the tolerance of the system is. The error is not so great that it is giving false readings like saying a guy who is barely moving is skating 30 mph. You can easily spot check that considering there are no data points that show it and they give you a timestamp of when each fastest instance occurred so you can check the video if you'd like. As I said before, the instance for Trocheck was on a PK backcheck coming from behind his own net which is when you would expect the fastest speeds to occur.

The tolerance of the system in measuring something like speed is probably pretty low. I think they're using passive RFIDs, which with high-end readers are accurate in determining position within a meter... but it's not really the position that matters in a speed calculation, but the relative change of position to some origin point. So, even if the position is a full meter off from reality, you can still get an accurate measurement of speed when the sensor moves 30 meters. You'll have somewhat less margin of error in that situation. Obviously, it's not going to be perfect, but it's also not going to be off by much.

It's definitely far more accurate than some guy with a radar gun.

 

[Alluckks]

It's not everyone who hates Adam Fox. Just one person. The same person. I've been here a long time. 14 years. Haven't seen this person have a positive thought about the Rangers yet. Just angry. Always angry.

Sometimes justified. The team stinks. That is true. You don't get to be miserable always and then take a victory lap when the team stinks.

It's also, just like, there are so many good legitimate reasons to rag on the team right now lmao

 

[dshea19]

Value is the name of the game in a salary cap world. I have seen people bash Tro for not doing as well as last year. Last year's performance was WAY over his contract value. His production this year is much more in line with his contract. He is making less than Buchnevich with similar production this year. Granted, one is a wing and the other is a center, but that only makes the value that much better. Zib was paid roughly $3.5 mil more for 3 extra points over Tro, along with being -22 to Trocheck's 0 +/-. HORRID value.