Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Machinehead]

I feel like it's one of the reasons why NYR fared so poorly against playoff opponents like the Devils that got a lead and just played smart safe hockey the rest of the way.

Everyone does that in the playoffs except the Brind'Amour Bunch who just skate straight at you every minute of every game. It explains a lot.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Torts finished a season as the interim coach for the Rangers during one of the Dark Ages seasons. I don't remember which one, but he was never officially named to the post. I think that's what the poster you were responding to was referring to.

It was somewhere in the John Muckler/Ron Low dog days IIRC.

Pretty sure it was 99-00.

 

[Kendo]

I feel like it's one of the reasons why NYR fared so poorly against playoff opponents like the Devils that got a lead and just played smart safe hockey the rest of the way.

You're both spot on.

The last two ECF runs had that "magic." Each season in between did not. Smart safe hockey hasn't been part of our game in any of them.

 

[majordomo]

The attacking gameplan for like 4 years has been to just try to outwait everyone going around the periphery of the O zone repeatedly until someone defensively slid too far out of position or made a mistake. Rarely did they actively try to get ahead of the play. Since Fox stopped having as much success on the dribblefrom the blue line in, and Panarin lost some of his explosiveness, Zib his one timer, Kreider his magic hands... it's no wonder the whole thing fell apart. Those guys were the only reason that was working at all at even strength.

Exactly -- Rangers always seemed to prefer the "tic-tac-toe" tap in on the weak side or a Kreider tip-in. This became old very fast.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Torts finished a season as the interim coach for the Rangers during one of the Dark Ages seasons. I don't remember which one, but he was never officially named to the post. I think that's what the poster you were responding to was referring to.

It was somewhere in the John Muckler/Ron Low dog days IIRC.

I remember. It was like 3-4 games. Not what I would call a HC job. Thanks

 

[zlev]

Oh hey its that little gnat buzzing around again, thought you finally gave up trying to claim I don't have info but here you are again ha. Not surprising...

I certainly have a pretty good idea about what happened and what is still happening, and that's part of why I said over 3 months ago to keep an eye on tocchet and nyr even back when media was trying to hype train tocchet to phili when torts was even still there.

it's just that you say you have all this info and use it to condescend everyone but you never elaborate any specifics

 

[Machinehead]

Exactly -- Rangers always seemed to prefer the "tic-tac-toe" tap in on the weak side or a Kreider tip-in. This became old very fast.

They don't have the ability to do anything else.

Panarin, for all of his issues, is a superstar talent. Beyond that, we built an entire window around also-rans and convinced ourselves our goaltending set us apart, which it never does.

 

[Boris Zubov]

it's just that you say you have all this info and use it to condescend everyone but you never elaborate any specifics

Not getting in the middle of your spat, but I gave you a link to click which was pretty specific.

 

[RangerBoy]

Torts finished a season as the interim coach for the Rangers during one of the Dark Ages seasons. I don't remember which one, but he was never officially named to the post. I think that's what the poster you were responding to was referring to.

It was somewhere in the John Muckler/Ron Low dog days IIRC.

1999-2000.

 

[RangerBoy]

Drury has the full backing of Dolan to clean house. I know Mika has a full NMC until the nearly the entire term of the contract. He needs to go. Spell it out for him in English and Swedish. He needs to go. His behavior is unacceptable. This is the United Nations or a power sharing arrangement. Drury is not holding a secret ballot for which players can be traded. We can't have another season of this nonsense.

Panarin needs to go. We can't have him trying to sleep with the female employees of the company. He is not receiving a contract extension this summer. Your time is up here. The public knows what happened now after it was quiet for a while.

I read Dolan's teams never hire first time head coaches. Winning formula. Look at the championship banners hanging in the building. There are so many championship banners that you can't accurate count all of them. Perhaps it might be time for a new formula.

 

[RangerBoy]

You're both spot on.

The last two ECF runs had that "magic." Each season in between did not. Smart safe hockey hasn't been part of our game in any of them.

The Rangers need epic changes. Not just changing the 2nd pair defenseman and a third liner. So many of the Rangers key players disappear in the playoffs. A team is not winning anything unless their key players show up after the regular season. I know the players don't get paid in the playoffs but it doesn't mean the season is over. The same flaws appear in both ECF losses. The Rangers always lose the battles in the trenches. The players constantly complain about the coach and Drury placates them by hiring a new coach. Two years later, there is another new head coach.

 

[haohmaru]

Drury has the full backing of Dolan to clean house. I know Mika has a full NMC until the nearly the entire term of the contract. He needs to go. Spell it out for him in English and Swedish. He needs to go. His behavior is unacceptable. This is the United Nations or a power sharing arrangement. Drury is not holding a secret ballot for which players can be traded. We can't have another season of this nonsense.

But... Drury isn't "nice", that's the issue.

Panarin needs to go. We can't have him trying to sleep with the female employees of the company. He is not receiving a contract extension this summer. Your time is up here. The public knows what happened now after it was quiet for a while.

Meh. Mixed feelings on this. No admission of guilt, the employee was placed on leave for sharing meds with another player and filed this during that probably knowing she might let go, etc... People do weird things for money and these types of deals are reached all the time when people have money because litigation can be more costly than settling. If the Rangers aren't in a playoff position at the TDL then I'd move him for maximum assets. It's hard to ignore the results of his Rangers career and he's the best free agent signing in Rangers history. I wouldn't be quick to make this move.

I read Dolan's teams never hire first time head coaches. Winning formula. Look at the championship banners hanging in the building. There are so many championship banners that you can't accurate count all of them. Perhaps it might be time for a new formula.

It's not the coaches. It's the impatience.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Rather Goodrow 2.0

I don't think anyone ever questioned his work ethic. He was just not good enough. Barely 4th line quality in his final year, yet making 3.6M

I thought people would've learned from Trouba and Goodrow. Matters f*** all, if the player is giving his all, playing his heart out etc, if he's not actually helping the team to win but making big bucks.

I know it sucks to watch Zibanejad and Kreider float around. The answer is not to hire a crash and bang hockey player because of his heart, and pay him like a point producer.

I was commenting more to the way Holik was and is recieved as a player here. Which was more Sathers fault than Bobbys.

Holik was actually still pretty damn good at playing -his brand- of hockey, its just that he made too much money doing it (albeit before a cap) but Managment signed him to be a 2c. Bennett would be in the same boat. Kind of, becasue he's currently a good 2c and Bobby never was. But, we'd kind of be repeating the Trochek deal with the expectation that Bennett slides down to 3c on the back 9 of his deal.

Goody, was purely and surely a room guy, and he had is moments where he helped win a few here and there, or got the "talent" motivated to play 3 zones when they were slipping. Again, though, a case of too much money for the job.

Its not your post so much as my understanding of how i perceive winning teams and their cultures. I get the cap is paramount now-a-days. My original comment of Holik 2.0 was more nuances than the hot take I made it to be. Thats on me.

 

[kovazub94]

I was looking at Zibanejad to Minnesota earlier in the year. If Minnesota loses to Vegas, I could see them pushing for next year to be a big year to take a step. Kaprizov is soon to be a UFA. They have a couple of guys who are overpaid but could be good depth pieces in the right roles in NY. Hartman and Trenin.

Hartman can play RW or center. He had 26 points this year in 69 games. He’s a bit of a PIA to play against.

Trenin really struggled early in the year after singing in Minnesota in the offseason. He’s a big, physical winger but he doesn’t provide a lot of offense in general. Skates well. You could look at him like a Hathaway a bit. Hard to play against. Big guy. Not fun to play against.

Collectively, they make $7.5m.

Zibanejad goes to play with a few Swedes and Zuccarello who he knows well. He’s a shooting center(or should be) who should be a good fit with Kaprizov and extend their depth.

Flip Trenin somewhere with $$ retained. Retain $1m. 3 years left. Get a pick.

Othmann-Hartman-Berard
Rempe-Carrick-Edstrom

There’s your bottom-6.

Terrible 3rd line. Based on your prior posts

Cuylle - Miller - Lafreniere
Fiala - Trocheck - Perreault
Othmann - Hartman - Berard

Might as well give this yers pick to Pens and start another rebuild with this group. Not happening.

 

[McRanger92]

Rangers don’t play as a team. They never know where anyone else is on the ice. It’s a result of the coaches letting a small group of veterans who never forecheck decide the lines for years.

Sign Gavrikov (or Orlov as a plan B) to play with Fox. Trade KAM or Schneider for a young C. Dump Kreider and Mika to turn the page. Panarin I can live with for a year and if the season goes bad he’ll be a good sell at the deadline. Position the team for 2026.

 

[kovazub94]

If Zibanejad is moved think we get $0.5 on a $1 at best and that $1 is already like 2/3 of where JTM was when Drury got him. If Kreider is moved which is very likely I can see Zibanejad getting another year to decide whether to proceed finding him a new home. I think Panarin gets an extension with an understanding that once his game starts to slip - he retires to go play in Russia. Sign a vet who can play top-6 winger / 3C while we wait for Perreault.

 

[Fitzy]

They don't have the ability to do anything else.

Panarin, for all of his issues, is a superstar talent. Beyond that, we built an entire window around also-rans and convinced ourselves our goaltending set us apart, which it never does.

Miller may be a mid tier 1C but Fox is def in the top 1/4th of #1 dmen in the league, so I think he should get SOME credit as a star player, even if he isn't a perennial top 3. He's better than McDonagh was at his peak by a decent margin.

 

[McRanger92]

The next coach has to be willing to trust the youth and punish veterans. If Muse can do that, I think he’s a strong choice.

 

[McRanger92]

Panarin-JT-Laf
Cuylle-Rossi-Othmann
Berard-Trocheck-Anderson
Rempe-Carrick-Edstrom
Brodzinski

Gavrikov-Fox
Soucy-Borgen
Jones-Schneider
Vaakanainen

Igor
Quick

 

[Kendo]

Panarin-JT-Laf
Cuylle-Rossi-Othmann
Berard-Trocheck-Anderson
Rempe-Carrick-Edstrom
Brodzinski

Gavrikov-Fox
Soucy-Borgen
Jones-Schneider
Vaakanainen

Igor
Quick

If we trade Key and sign Gav, we still have a gigantic hole at LD.

I can't believe how poorly the Soucy experiment went. We simply cannot go into the season leaning on him to play 2nd pair minutes.

 

[Atax]

If we trade Key and sign Gav, we still have a gigantic hole at LD.

I can't believe how poorly the Soucy experiment went. We simply cannot go into the season leaning on him to play 2nd pair minutes.

Brother, he's going to be getting 24+ minutes a night paired with Fox.

 

[McRanger92]

If we trade Key and sign Gav, we still have a gigantic hole at LD.

I can't believe how poorly the Soucy experiment went. We simply cannot go into the season leaning on him to play 2nd pair minutes.

Kandre stinks. Jones can move the puck better and is equally physically. You don’t need to have 6 superstars on D just a coach who has a system the players buy into

 

[Kendo]

Kandre stinks. Jones can move the puck better and is equally physically. You don’t need to have 6 superstars on D just a coach who has a system the players buy into

I don't think he stinks. He has a lot of tools, but he's working on building his toolbox. His brainfarts seem to always end up in the back of the net, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do good things as well.

I'm a Jones fan. If I were GM, I'd want to keep him and Vaaks as a 6/7 platoon.

Of course we don't need 6 stars on D. We need 7 NHL caliber D, and right now we have 6 and Soucy.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Exactly -- Rangers always seemed to prefer the "tic-tac-toe" tap in on the weak side or a Kreider tip-in. This became old very fast.

Well this is a bit of a double edged sword.

They do this because these chances have a high conversion rate - These a reason why they've almost always out performed what is expected of them offensively in the RS. This was the case again this year where they actually scored at a good clip 5v5.

When games get tighter and teams get better, these chances become much harder to come by. There is no plan B and the best teams usually have a plan B. There is no better poster child for this than Panarin who is supposed to be the "star" forward. He is unable/unwilling to adjust and well, theres a reason why he's getting outproduced by everyone in his tier, most guys a tier blow him and even some guys a tier below that in the playoffs.

That said, I don’t know that the message or focal point should be to focus on doing shit that works less often than what you’re doing. I think they need to add players capable of producing offense in different ways and are more willing/able to go to high traffic areas but the puck still needs to get there.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't think he stinks. He has a lot of tools, but he's working on building his toolbox. His brainfarts seem to always end up in the back of the net, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do good things as well.

I'm a Jones fan. If I were GM, I'd want to keep him and Vaaks as a 6/7 platoon.

Of course we don't need 6 stars on D. We need 7 NHL caliber D, and right now we have 6 and Soucy.

Soucy’s underlying numbers were good with the Rangers and he’s been a good player in his career. 20 games with a checked out and terrible defensive team doesn’t define his career