Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[bhamill]

If any of our guys are saying they did not play hard because of Drury moving Goody and Trouba then I do not want those players on my team. That is a player issue not a GM issue imo. I do not care if Jabba the Hut was the GM. Players owe the fans a full effort if they are going to keep cashing those paychecks imo.

Now here is the bad news. Maybe some guys were disgruntled but maybe they also got old? Maybe they are in decline and have already passed their prime regardless of who the GM is. I lean more towards age than GM. There are some physical things guys in their 30's are not willing to do that they may have been willing to do in their 20's imo.

"They older we get the smaller our balls get".

Thank you.
Except for that crack about my balls. Hurtful.

 

[Tawnos]

WRONG. Waiving a player violates neither the letter nor the spirit of an NTC. Threatening a player into accepting a trade DOES violate the spirit, though not the letter of an NTC. How this is confusing to anyone is baffling to me.
You guys thinking TBL were "nicer' in the way the way they threatened Mac than Drury was in NOT threatening Goodrow, changes nothing. Sweet Babeh Jeebus.

I think you're missing the part of this where Goodrow was claimed by a team on his NTC. That's what violates the spirit of it. There's also the sense that Drury knew a team on his NTC would be taking him and that was a factor in placing him on waivers.

And TB being nicer changes literally everything about how the players and teams reacted. It's the only thing that matters on this topic.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Tom Wilson had 10pts in 82GP as a rookie
Matt Rempe had 10pts in 59GP as a rookie

 

[kovazub94]

Didn't Tampa do this exact same thing to force McDonagh to waive for Nashville?

McDonagh was so upset about it that he absolutely refused to play for Tampa ever again...
Oh wait no he didn't.



[Nick Kypreos] ”the way it was described to me if RYAN McDONAGH didnt agree to be traded, he was going to be waived and Tampa had a commitment from Columbus to claim him, he wasnt thrilled about getting traded” (real kyper and bourne show)

They said "please" and "thank you" but bad Drury didn't...

 

[majordomo]

Hahahaha. You forgot something: AND they threatened him that if he did not accept the trade that he DID NOT WANT and that his NTC allowed him to refuse, that they would THEN waive him... They coerced him.
Drury merely did what he was allowed to do. No threat, no circumvention of the spirit of the NTC, no coercion.
Again, I'm not arguing that you cant have a bad opinion of Drury, "he sucks"?, fine. But its inconsistant with the facts to claim TBL weren't worse... THAT is a double standard no matter how you try to spin it.
Have a good one, its obvious you just have a narrative on this one that you are clinging to. That's fine. Not my problem.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that Drury approached Goodrow about waiving because he had a deal in place (oddly enough with SJ) and Goodrow refused. Once he refused, he put him on waivers.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think age definitely has its effect but I dont' think that's the whole story for this season

I know people want to just say that's that and make it simple but it isn't, IMO

I agree. There were multiple issues.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Thank you.
Except for that crack about my balls. Hurtful.

LOL not you. We know you would still take on Tom Wilson.

 

[MrAlmost]

Explain? I'm seriously interested by this lol

I don't get this either. If there's a team that's in even worse shape than the Rangers when it comes to their future, it's the Islanders.

Well i mean first things first. Thats a quote from Jurassic Park. It's meant to just say there are more problems than can be handled at once or by one person in a funny way.

But I think the point is pretty self explanatory. In the hypothetical, Martin would get the Isles turned around faster than Drury can turn the Rangers around. The Isles being in a worse position, whether true or not, is the indictment on the Rangers org. Haha

 

[Cmox]

I have to think Marc Savard gets a head coaching gig soon.

I don't know if he's the right coach for this roster, but who knows what this roster will be next season.

I still want Torts.

Man, can wait for the weight management crew to tackle him if hired. I'm looking at you @Tob

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think you're missing the part of this where Goodrow was claimed by a team on his NTC. That's what violates the spirit of it. There's also the sense that Drury knew a team on his NTC would be taking him and that was a factor in placing him on waivers.

And TB being nicer changes literally everything about how the players and teams reacted. It's the only thing that matters on this topic.

It doesn’t really violate the spirit.
Because the rangers received nothing for goodrow except cap space.
Goodrow was a waiver claim. Not a trade.

Trouba violates the “spirit” of a no trade but , trouba could’ve seen if drury was bluffing. Trouba didn’t have to waive.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

eh

Still think we gotta rewind on this a bit. This was a hire to attempt to push this group towards a cup. Not to develop the team, but to take a swing at the cup. Lavi was fine for that. The only 3 year contract reflects that Drury felt this was probably a short term thing and wasn't expecting Laviolette to be around long term building up the team.

I don't think anyone knew that the team would quit on him as hard as they did and that this last season would happen. I think people figured that yeah he was gonna lean on his vets and it'd be harder for young players to break into the lineup. Not that we all knew this past season was gonna happen.

So again, it was an attempt at a cup in the short term in which case you don't want to hire a no experience head coach.

Now we can argue whether that was the right approach to begin with....but it's revisionist a bit to say we knew it would go down like it did. Lavi wasn't fired because he prefers vets in a general sense, he was fired because the team gave up on him and he doubled down on the same vets that were tuning him out.

Even if the cup is your end goal, you were hiring the guy fresh off of being in a similar position in Washington where he failed miserably. I get that hes got a bunch of experience in which he DID have success (Nashville, Philly, Carolina) even if it didn't always result in a cup but you can't ignore what just happened because thats the most recent example of what he's done.

Judging by the comments made by some of the Caps former and/or current players after he left, he wasn't very popular there (both vets and younger guys.) The handling of the young guys was a given, and it's absurd that he did what he did with some players this year - Thats what I mean by saying that we knew what was coming (not that it would blow up in year 2.)

I think the one big difference between now and when he was hires is that there are way more appealing candidates available. 2 years ago it was him, Roy, Quenville and a few of those unknowns (Carberry, Love, Huska, Leach, etc.) Several appealing options in this crop, both no HC experience and guys who have with some.

 

[Kendo]

Sure but his talent evaluation is also shit.
So what opinion is he gonna be sharing that’s worth money?

He’d be guaranteed to NOT be a yes man. That’s worth “something “ at least.

 

[bhamill]

I think you're missing the part of this where Goodrow was claimed by a team on his NTC. That's what violates the spirit of it. There's also the sense that Drury knew a team on his NTC would be taking him and that was a factor in placing him on waivers.

And TB being nicer changes literally everything about how the players and teams reacted. It's the only thing that matters on this topic.

I think you are missing the fact that THAT IS IRRELEVANT.
I don't give a shit, frankly, if TBL were "nicer" in threatening a player to go to a team on his no trade list via trade. Zero shits. NONE. They still violated the spirit of the NTC and NYR did NOT.

 

[bhamill]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that Drury approached Goodrow about waiving because he had a deal in place (oddly enough with SJ) and Goodrow refused. Once he refused, he put him on waivers.

Either way, simply putting a player on waivers in that situation violates neither the NTC nor it's spirit.

 

[bhamill]

LOL not you. We know you would still take on Tom Wilson.

And get ragdolled all over the ice! But yes.
hahahaha

 

[bhamill]

It doesn’t really violate the spirit.
Because the rangers received nothing for goodrow except cap space.
Goodrow was a waiver claim. Not a trade.

Trouba violates the “spirit” of a no trade but , trouba could’ve seen if drury was bluffing. Trouba didn’t have to waive.

YES. Though I don't know that it has been confirmed that Drury threatened Trouba with that, if he DID then he violated the spirit of it. Like TBL did with Mac.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Anyone for Jessica Campbell as head coach?

Rangers, Chris Drury have chance to embrace NHL’s new-school in coaching search

The Rangers’ field this time will not be limited to men who have been the head coach of multiple NHL teams. It might even mean that the field might not be limited to men.

nypost.com

I don't think she would get the HC gig for the Rangers, but it wouldn't surprise me if Drury brought her in for an interview for the HC job, or at least a position on the staff. He thought highly enough of her then, I don't know if that has changed.

He had tried to bring her in to help out at one of their summer Development camps a few years ago, but them she got the AHL Assistant Coaching job with Seattle's AHL affiliate in Cochella Valley.

 

[LOFIN]

It doesn’t really violate the spirit.

Yes it does, from the players and agents POV. Like I said earlier in the thread, Friedman said that after that went down he got a ton of messages from around the league where players and agents thought that Drury used "a loophole" to circumvent Goodrow's NTC.

 

[Tawnos]

I think you are missing the fact that THAT IS IRRELEVANT.
I don't give a shit, frankly, if TBL were "nicer" in threatening a player to go to a team on his no trade list via trade. Zero shits. NONE. They still violated the spirit of the NTC and NYR did NOT.

It’s the only part of this conversation that *is* relevant. You might not give a shit, but you have no involvement in the situation and aren’t affected by it. Meanwhile those involved or affected by it did give a shit.

Some people believe that a GM owes the players nothing in the way of courtesy. My observation of these situations is that the players believe they do, and I agree with them.

And on that note, I’ll leave it there.

 

[SA16]

Who cares about the "spirit" of the CBA? The rule is the rule. Change the spirit to be the actual rule if that's what's desired. This is getting to be like baseball and all of their "unwritten rules."

 

[Tawnos]

Who cares about the "spirit" of the CBA? The rule is the rule. Change the spirit to be the actual rule if that's what's desired.

The players care. And so does the league for that matter.

 

[RangerBoy]

John Tortorella? What a joke. Let’s just handcuff the franchise to another few years of outdated, ego-driven nonsense. Torts is a dinosaur—loud, arrogant, and completely ineffective in today’s NHL. His tough guy act is a cover for the fact that he’s got no answers. He’s hostile in every press conference, treats questions like personal attacks, and brings a circus everywhere he goes.

The game has passed him by. His so-called “process” is code for stifling young talent and flexing control. If the Rangers are serious about building a future, they should trade Perreault this summer before Torts buries him in the bottom six and kills his confidence. We've seen this story before—same coach, same results, same wasted years.

Enough is enough.

 

[bhamill]

It’s the only part of this conversation that *is* relevant. You might not give a shit, but you have no involvement in the situation and aren’t affected by it. Meanwhile those involved or affected by it did give a shit.

Some people believe that a GM owes the players nothing in the way of courtesy. My observation of these situations is that the players believe they do, and I agree with them.

And on that note, I’ll leave it there.

That's fine. I wasn't defending Drury's couth or manners.
Have a good one, bud.

 

[SA16]

The players care. And so does the league for that matter.

So then they should work with the league to change the rule.

 

[Tawnos]

So then they should work with the league to change the rule.

Most likely they're going to as part of the current CBA negotiations. I don't even really think this is going to rise to the level of something the league would want concessions for. It'll just be a tweak they implement, not unlike the whole thing about NMCs and NTCs traveling with players they added last time around.