Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Profet]

I have to think Marc Savard gets a head coaching gig soon.

I don't know if he's the right coach for this roster, but who knows what this roster will be next season.

I still want Torts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I agree with this but also the team just isn't that good, and they're not producing any young players to take the load off the vets, so naturally coaches are going to lean on the guys who might score. They're judged on wins and losses and nothing else.

Laviolette still sucked, don't get me wrong. He didn't bother with Berard when he had the opportunity to do so. Cuylle had to go on a ridiculous shooting bender to force his way in.

Regardless, whether the next coach is the right or wrong hire, we're going to see a lot of Panarin, Zibanejad, and Trocheck coming over the boards. Who else is gonna produce?

I think it's about not letting the top guys get away with a bunch of the bull shit that they've been allowed to get away with. It's more than just them but you can make a much stronger statement by holding them to the standards you expect from everyone.

If you discipline Panarin when he does something f***ing stupid, all the other players on the roster will take notice and either Panarin (or one of the other expensive vets) will get his act together or he'll pout and find himself shipped out of town (perhaps even facilitating it.) No one is going to give a f*** if the coach scratches a rookie for no reason, and thats as much as the last 3 (really 4) coaches have done.

It's not really a question of whether or not they have enough talent to win the whole thing (right now, they don't, that isn't really a tough one to answer) but what they can do to be better with out even making a single change on the roster. I'm not saying that they should run it back (f*** that noise), but even if they were to do so, theres no reason why this team should be missing the playoffs when a shit ass, -9000000 at ES, 2 forward team like Montreal gets in.

Enforcing a certain baseline of fundamentals is essential. If your best players don't want to follow, they shouldn't play, doesn't really matter how good they are.

 

[Mike in Houston]

If she's the best candidate, why not?

I don't disagree. At the same time I'm not sure NY would be the right spot for her first head coaching gig.

 

[bhamill]

Tampa gave McDonagh and his agent permission to find a team for the Lightning to trade him to. There's no double standard here. BriseBois treated McDonagh with the utmost respect. Drury treated Goodrow like a game piece.

They told him if he didn't waive his clause THEY WOULD WAIVE HIM... that is worse than what Drury did, so yeah, it is a double standard.

 

[Tawnos]

I think it's about not letting the top guys get away with a bunch of the bull shit that they've been allowed to get away with. It's more than just them but you can make a much stronger statement by holding them to the standards you expect from everyone.

If you discipline Panarin when he does something f***ing stupid, all the other players on the roster will take notice and either Panarin (or one of the other expensive vets) will get his act together or he'll pout and find himself shipped out of town (perhaps even facilitating it.) No one is going to give a f*** if the coach scratches a rookie for no reason, and thats as much as the last 3 (really 4) coaches have done.

It's not really a question of whether or not they have enough talent to win the whole thing (right now, they don't, that isn't really a tough one to answer) but what they can do to be better with out even making a single change on the roster. I'm not saying that they should run it back (f*** that noise), but even if they were to do so, theres no reason why this team should be missing the playoffs when a shit ass, -9000000 at ES, 2 forward team like Montreal gets in.

Enforcing a certain baseline of fundamentals is essential. If your best players don't want to follow, they shouldn't play, doesn't really matter how good they are.

There was a quote from Laviolette somewhere back in March where he was asked about why the team loses complete focus on playing within their structure. Laviolette's response was that he's always urged them to play the right way (or something to that effect). What stood out to me was the word "urged." I don't think any of the last 3 coaches have ever gone beyond that word.

What this group needs/needed is someone who DEMANDS it from them. You don't have to be a complete jerk to demand the right play from your team (a la Tortorella). There's a way to do it without that. Do you think Cooper urges his team along? No, he tells them what he expects and then he demands it.

 

[Tawnos]

They told him if he didn't waive his clause THEY WOULD WAIVE HIM... that is worse than what Drury did, so yeah, it is a double standard.

How in the world is that worse?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They told him if he didn't waive his clause THEY WOULD WAIVE HIM... that is worse than what Drury did, so yeah, it is a double standard.

The GM actually sat down with McDonagh, explained to him what was happening and why and they found a landing spot for him. Yes, he did say if we can't come to an agreement, we'll have to waive you. On what planet is this the same thing as waiving Goodrow without any notice it was coming? You can't possibly be this obtuse?

 

[MrAlmost]

Martin will go to the Isles and immediately turn them around and get that franchise going in the right direction.

Meanwhile we will still be talking about Z's diet to cope with the fact that the org sucks from top to bottom and left to right.

Putting it all on the players is as dumb as putting it all on Drury. It's a team effort to both be good and to suck.

Trouba and goodrow did more then people would like to admit, but the issue is they should not have been asked to or even needed for that.

Damn this franchise. We've got all the problems of a major theme park and a major zoo!

 

[bhamill]

How in the world is that worse?

Ahahahaha. If you can't logically see that that threat to compel the player to accept a trade he did not want violates the spirit of an NTC, as Drury has been accused of, more than merely waiving a player, there's nothing to talk about. Have a good one.

 

[bhamill]

The GM actually sat down with McDonagh, explained to him what was happening and why and they found a landing spot for him. Yes, he did say if we can't come to an agreement, we'll have to waive you. On what planet is this the same thing as waiving Goodrow without any notice it was coming? You can't possibly be this obtuse?

Hahahaha. You forgot something: AND they threatened him that if he did not accept the trade that he DID NOT WANT and that his NTC allowed him to refuse, that they would THEN waive him... They coerced him.
Drury merely did what he was allowed to do. No threat, no circumvention of the spirit of the NTC, no coercion.
Again, I'm not arguing that you cant have a bad opinion of Drury, "he sucks"?, fine. But its inconsistant with the facts to claim TBL weren't worse... THAT is a double standard no matter how you try to spin it.
Have a good one, its obvious you just have a narrative on this one that you are clinging to. That's fine. Not my problem.

 

[bernmeister]

What’s the summary of this for those of us without a subscription?

The fuggin ultra conservative Post has hero founding father, who also founded the paper, spinning in his grave. So fug them getting a subscription

I liked what I saw from Othmann and Berard. Another full off-season will be good for them. Edstrom and Rempe are easily 4th liners. What other young players are we concerned about?

No, they for real have some upside
so respectfully disagree

Shit at first reading it I thought it was gonna say announces his retirement

too much to hope for
I said this guy had his head up his ass, and as more often than not
I WAS RIGHT
wish the best for him and anyone else, but you gonna be selfish, then fug you

hopefully we can just buy his ass out if trade not forthcoming

 

[Tawnos]

Ahahahaha. If you can't logically see that that threat to compel the player to accept a trade he did not want violates the spirit of an NTC, as Drury has been accused of, more than merely waiving a player, there's nothing to talk about. Have a good one.

You realize that McDonagh didn't actually GET waived, right? The spirit of the NTC is that it gives the player the ability to choose where he gets traded to, if he's going to be traded. By giving him the ability to choose his destination first, before waivers were necessary, the Lightning ultimately kept to the spirit of the NTC.

The difference lies in the options given to the player through the communication with them. It doesn't lie in any difference between the facts on paper.

 

[Siddi]

Yeah, well that's the thing. If you have a dozen guys who look like they may pan out as bottom six, Six may not make it, but one will probably OVER achieve. I look at our current pool that we catagorize that way, Othmann, Berard, Edstrom, Rempe and the guys in Hartford and below, in that light. Half will probably top out as AHL, but one or two may surprise us. Like Cuylle did. Othmann becoming a 2nd liner would shock me ZERO.
Even if not, being able to capably fill your bottom six in house makes it WAY easier to concentrate on fixing your top six. Gabe and Laf are prob top six for 10 years. JT for at least 3 or 4. Troch can slide down to 3C as he ages. So we need to upgrade 3 top six spots pretty soon. Pan is likely gone after the coming season if not before, Mika may not be top six quality going forward, and I'm afraid Kreider is already bottom six quality.
In my way of thinking we should trade some bottom six talents for draft picks or packaged to get what we need. They are assets that teams WILL pay for. As evidenced by our OWN team trading for guys like Goodrow. Of course it will help if we WIN something because that experience is part of what teams want.

Gabe and Laf are surefire top six players but the player that almost went ppg in the second half of the season and ended up second on the team scoring at seasons end may not be?

Hahaha. Tampa went to McDonagh and told him if he didn't waive his clause they would put him on waivers and he'd end up on the worst team in the league... THAT is a threat and actually does circumvent the spirit of the NTC, unlike what that ogre Drury did...
I mean, you are welcome to have your opinion on Drury of course, but you have a clear double standard when you are painting TBL in a more positive light, when their tact was actually WORSE.

Read this and then get back to me what you think the difference between Drury and Brisebois is?

Julien BriseBois Ryan McDonagh Trade Media Call Transcription

Below is a transcript of the media call with Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois that followed his trade of Ryan McDonagh to the Nashville Predators on Sunday. The GM talked about the…

www.rawcharge.com

 

[JohnC]

I mean...if Drury can't move some guys then he needs to tell his coach "you have my full backing to bench guys who aren't buying in and tuning you out, and I'm not holding it against you"

One way or another the team needs to stop being "difficult to coach"

This surely won’t backfire in a group as temperamental as this one apparently is

 

[bhamill]

You realize that McDonagh didn't actually GET waived, right? The spirit of the NTC is that it gives the player the ability to choose where he gets traded to, if he's going to be traded. By giving him the ability to choose his destination first, before waivers were necessary, the Lightning ultimately kept to the spirit of the NTC.

The difference lies in the options given to the player through the communication with them. It doesn't lie in any difference between the facts on paper.

Right. He wasn't waived. Because he was coerced to accept a trade he didn't want... despite having an NTC. How are you not understanding that waiving a player is perfectly within the rights of a team when a player has an NTC, but threatening a player is a violation of that spirit. The communication was a threat. What a spin to label that as something positive. ahahahahaha.
You obviously have a narrative you have some need to stick to. Again, not my problem.
Good day, sir.

 

[bhamill]

Read this and then get back to me what you think the difference between Drury and Brisebois is?

Julien BriseBois Ryan McDonagh Trade Media Call Transcription

Below is a transcript of the media call with Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois that followed his trade of Ryan McDonagh to the Nashville Predators on Sunday. The GM talked about the…

www.rawcharge.com

No. A media call does not change the fact that they coerced him into accepting a trade.
Like NYR telling Mika they need to move on from him and if he doesn't waive his clause, they were just going to send him home and pay him. THAT would be coercion and violate the spirit of his NMC.

 

[Levitate]

He could have made a better hire than Laviolette.

Everyone and their f***ing mother knew how that one was going to go. The best part about his hire is that he went semi out side of the box with the hiring of his assistants, but that doesn't speak well at all to the guy who is calling the shots.

If a bunch of people here could have foreseen how this one would go, theres no reason why someone who is a GM in this league couldn't see it too. It was a lazy, "safe" hire because he didn't want to go with someone who didn't have a ton of experience which apparently, is a redeeming quality this time around.

Could have saved himself the trouble and just hired the guy with less experience last time.

eh

Still think we gotta rewind on this a bit. This was a hire to attempt to push this group towards a cup. Not to develop the team, but to take a swing at the cup. Lavi was fine for that. The only 3 year contract reflects that Drury felt this was probably a short term thing and wasn't expecting Laviolette to be around long term building up the team.

I don't think anyone knew that the team would quit on him as hard as they did and that this last season would happen. I think people figured that yeah he was gonna lean on his vets and it'd be harder for young players to break into the lineup. Not that we all knew this past season was gonna happen.

So again, it was an attempt at a cup in the short term in which case you don't want to hire a no experience head coach.

Now we can argue whether that was the right approach to begin with....but it's revisionist a bit to say we knew it would go down like it did. Lavi wasn't fired because he prefers vets in a general sense, he was fired because the team gave up on him and he doubled down on the same vets that were tuning him out.

 

[will1066]

Martin will go to the Isles and immediately turn them around and get that franchise going in the right direction.

Meanwhile we will still be talking about Z's diet to cope with the fact that the org sucks from top to bottom and left to right.

Putting it all on the players is as dumb as putting it all on Drury. It's a team effort to both be good and to suck.

Trouba and goodrow did more then people would like to admit, but the issue is they should not have been asked to or even needed for that.

Damn this franchise. We've got all the problems of a major theme park and a major zoo!

Explain? I'm seriously interested by this lol

 

[I Eat Crow]

Explain? I'm seriously interested by this lol

I don't get this either. If there's a team that's in even worse shape than the Rangers when it comes to their future, it's the Islanders.

 

[Machinehead]

I have to think Marc Savard gets a head coaching gig soon.

I don't know if he's the right coach for this roster, but who knows what this roster will be next season.

I still want Torts.

The Rangers bringing him back after he got good somewhere else would be on brand.

 

[will1066]

I don't get this either. If there's a team that's in even worse shape than the Rangers when it comes to their future, it's the Islanders.

I meant it literally haha. Like, what are the problems theme parks and zoos have that the Rangers are now dealing with?

 

[Tawnos]

Right. He wasn't waived. Because he was coerced to accept a trade he didn't want... despite having an NTC. How are you not understanding that waiving a player if perfectly within the rights of a team when a player has an NTC, but threatening a player is a violation of that spirit. The communication was a threat. What a spin to label that as something positive. ahahahahaha.
You obviously have a narrative you have some need to stick to. Again, not my problem.
Good day, sir.

BOTH are situations where the spirit of the NTC was violated on some level. One situation ended in mutual respect between the two parties and understanding that its a tough business from everyone around them. The other ended in hard feelings and deepened mistrust between management and players. It's pretty clear to me which one was the worse of the two.

 

[bhamill]

BOTH are situations where the spirit of the NTC was violated on some level. One situation ended in mutual respect between the two parties and understanding that its a tough business from everyone around them. The other ended in hard feelings and deepened mistrust between management and players. It's pretty clear to me which one was the worse of the two.

WRONG. Waiving a player violates neither the letter nor the spirit of an NTC. Threatening a player into accepting a trade DOES violate the spirit, though not the letter of an NTC. How this is confusing to anyone is baffling to me.
You guys thinking TBL were "nicer' in the way the way they threatened Mac than Drury was in NOT threatening Goodrow, changes nothing. Sweet Babeh Jeebus.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Drury's mediocre at best but I still think the failure of the season is on the players more than its on him. Hopefully it means we dont have to see Zibanejad in a Rangers uniform come September

If any of our guys are saying they did not play hard because of Drury moving Goody and Trouba then I do not want those players on my team. That is a player issue not a GM issue imo. I do not care if Jabba the Hut was the GM. Players owe the fans a full effort if they are going to keep cashing those paychecks imo.

Now here is the bad news. Maybe some guys were disgruntled but maybe they also got old? Maybe they are in decline and have already passed their prime regardless of who the GM is. I lean more towards age than GM. There are some physical things guys in their 30's are not willing to do that they may have been willing to do in their 20's imo.

"They older we get the smaller our balls get".

 

[Levitate]

If any of our guys are saying they did not play hard because of Drury moving Goody and Trouba then I do not want those players on my team. That is a player issue not a GM issue imo. I do not care if Jabba the Hut was the GM. Players owe the fans a full effort if they are going to keep cashing those paychecks imo.

Now here is the bad news. Maybe some guys were disgruntled but maybe they also got old? Maybe they are in decline and have already passed their prime regardless of who the GM is. I lean more towards age than GM. There are some physical things guys in their 30's are not willing to do that they may have been willing to do in their 20's imo.

"They older we get the smaller our balls get".

I think age definitely has its effect but I dont' think that's the whole story for this season

I know people want to just say that's that and make it simple but it isn't, IMO