Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Mandar]

Alright folks, that's enough about Mollie.

Yeah! Be nice.....she's the real queen (sorry again @will1066 .... with the utmost respect)

 

[bleedblue94]

The problem is there is a conflict of interest between the player and agent.

The player can potentially get an NMC if he agrees to take less money.

Why would the agent want to do that though when his fee is a percentage of the players salary? Unless the player specifically says he will only take a deal with a full NMC the agent isn't going to look to do something like that.

I'd also tend to doubt that prior to Goodrow/McDonagh that players understood they could be waived and claimed by a team on their NTC. I'd imagine in the next CBA they adjust it so a NTC is really more of a "no acquisition under any circumstances" clause.

Players don't give a discount to get a ntc or nmc, they are expected parts of contracts now or players claim they won't sign. Players sometimes give aav discounts for signing bonus money or now for deferred money on certain situations that will allow tax advantages to the player/agent.

Also the premise of circumvention of ntc by waiving being "understood" is just pain wrong. You are correct to doubt it. Go back to the Todd Marchant situation between Columbus and Anaheim and realize that when that happened it set of alarms in the league and it's something the league protects against. Even with Goodrow the situation almost had the league step in and block the claim bc it was a circumvention. There were some he behind the scenes conversations and smoothings that massaged that situation to not become media fodder longer than it did, but it's been publicly reported that the league got involved. "Investigate" does not always mean you did ok or you did wrong and we are penalizing you. Sometimes the investigate and they manage the situation with the parties to find and medium everyone can live with. The league reps and leaders are attorneys after all, that's what they do...

 

[bleedblue94]

He was not a leader. Enough press coverage about cliques tell a us all we need to know.
That’s on the Drury. Shouldn’t have been given the captaincy.
When he first got the C he talked in interviews about reading books on leadership and called up guys like Blake Wheeler.
Wheeler the guy who was run out of Winnipeg on a rail because of their caustic locker room.
Leaders are made organically, not theoretically.

He was already an emerging leader. When he was named captain HE bought books on leadership and teamwork for all of the players on the rangers to read and to help convey what a team culture was and why everyone was important. He wasnt doing his own research after he got the C, he was being a leader by pulling the group together and making sure they all realized that everyone was a part of the success. There is a HUGE difference...

 

[haohmaru]

Asking a guy with an NMC if he'll approve a trade is the LAST step of the process. The FIRST step is giving the guy with the NMC the courtesy of telling him he's on the block. By the letter of the rules, Drury doesn't owe him that, but it's not about the letter of the rules of the contract. Drury owes a long-term player who wears the C for the team more than just the letter of the rules. He owes ALL of his players courtesy.

He isn't "owed" the courtesy. The players aren't "owed" that courtesy either. It's a nicety, but it's not necessary. It's also a liability if the word gets out before the deal is done and the player can get ahead of the team from a PR standpoint. I disagree with your premise that it's owed. It isn't.

Stop twisting my words as if I'm casting Trouba as the victim. Like I said, he is not absolved of responsibility for how it all played out in the end.

That wasn't directed at you to "twist your words" at all. Merely a general statement that the player is some sort of victim here and I don't agree with that. Your statement above ("owed") shows you feel differently. Under the rules of the CBA, Drury did nothing wrong and even said so when confronted about it. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, however.

“It's my job, and 31 other GMs’ jobs, to try and do everything we can to help our team,” Drury said via Vince Z. Mercogliano of USA Today. There's things at our disposal in the CBA. I'm not trying to mess with players. I have a ton of respect for Barclay and certainly, as I've said already, for Jacob. I'm just trying to do the best I can to move the team forward and make changes that I think are necessary.”

Let's play alternate reality for a second. In early June, Drury calls up Trouba and has the difficult conversation. He tells him that he's decided to make a change and he'll be trying to trade him. He asks if Trouba has any preferred destinations. He tells Trouba that if he has to wait for Trouba to submit his no-trade list on 7/1, then he will. And he tells Trouba that if he can't find a deal to one of his preferred destinations, and Trouba won't accept a deal to one of his non-preferred destination, he'll have to waive him. Does Trouba makes his list specifically to prevent the team from trading him? Probably not, because he knows if he does that he could easily end up somewhere he doesn't want to.

This is entirely speculation about what might've happened if we did X instead of Y. Trouba might've told Drury to go f*** himself and he's not waiving.

Furthermore, Drury walked everything back and basically gave Trouba and "the core" another kick at the can and didn't like what he saw and THEN made the move to get rid of him after roughly twenty games.

More importantly though, it doesn't play out in the media and his teammates don't feel like "our GM doesn't give a damn about us as people. He just sees this as a video game." The ENTIRE thing plays out very differently.

Once again, and I think we agree here, this core needed to get over this shit and go about their business. If Gretzky can get traded, if Leetch can get traded on his birthday, if Lundqvist can get bought out instead of trading a f***ing head case, etc... then Jacob Trouba can get unceremoniously traded as well. And this player, in particular, has a history of putting his demands out there with zero f***s given (as is his right) which makes his "victimhood" even less tolerable.

The fact that they're still talking about this bullshit in April gives even more credence to Drury's assessment that this core is never going to get as far as it has already gotten.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Drury appointed the Captain? What's the source on that?

I concede the point,Gallant was the coach but that couldn’t have happened without Drury signing off.
Here’s the quote:
"Anyone that has been around our team for the last few seasons I think certainly understands the impact Jacob has had on our group, day to day, day in, day out, on ice, off ice, game days or practice days," Drury said. "He's a terrific leader and we think he'll be a great Rangers captain for years to come."Aug 9, 2022

 

[bleedblue94]

Colorado traded Raantanen without even talking to MacKinnon first and Mika Zibanejad thinks he needs to be consulted on what management is up to in order to play well? It's a joke what a baby he is. He's nowhere near the player MacKinnon is, he has nowhere near the status or the actual achievements and yet somehow Nate is able to perform but Mika can't.

I absolutely hate Mika saying "that's what my contract says so I'm going to be here, I earnED it" it's just an incredibly selfish way to frame his situation.

How about saying you want to win here and you're going to do everything you can to get back to the level you know you can be at and bring a championship to New York? That contract goes both ways, you're paid what you are and have the clauses you do with the understanding that you have to perform at a certain level.

I think people are missing what Mika said. I think Mika is saying I'm not going to accept/waive for just anywhere. He literally said when the time comes we can have those discussions. He's not asking out and he's not saying he needs to stay.

He's saying my contract gives me control of the situation so if you want me to waive then it will be on my terms and when I want to.

Aka make his life miserable and then offer to him and his agent to identify teams he would waive for and work with the org to get him moved. He isn't going to be here through next summer and I think it's 50/50 he's here opening night 2025...

 

[Mike in Houston]

26 minutes of Boomer Esiason talking about the Rangers 24/25 season:

Count Booms as someone who wants Kreider on the team. That makes two of us.

 

[SA16]

Sure. But the agent works for the player. And everyone knows the difference between a NTC and a NMC. If a player isn't reviewing the major terms of the contract he is signing that is an issue... but not the team's issue. This is ultimately on the player, and the dynamic between the agent and the player is outside of the team's purview.
Maybe the league, or better yet the NHLPA, should have a program set up to educate the players on what contract terms mean and how to deal with an agent if its really something that is undermining the players.

Let's be fair here. The players barely understand escrow. Most are not college educated. Just look at statements by Jonathan Toews. You'd think they should understand the difference between an NTC/NMC but I highly doubt they understood all the intricacies and any deal that has a NTC/NMC is generally going to be good dollars/years and that sort of player would never even think he'd be at risk of being waived. The league probably never even though of it either until it started happening recently.

 

[Mike in Houston]

I don't remember that

I do. I think it was another member of the media.

 

[bleedblue94]

Homie, you keep changing your story. Yes, SJ was on his list of teams he couldn't be traded to. So to get around that, because he sucks at his job, Drury simply waived Goodrow and oh, what do you know San Jose had first dibs.

And they waited until it could be claimed that it was necessary for cap compliant reasons. People tried to claim Drury f***ed up the cap and they were going to be compliant but he knew all along what the backup plan was if it got to that point. The Goodrow waiving wasnt something that just came together that week...

 

[Riche16]

I was saying that the post I was quoting wasn't about treatment of players. That poster had listed a bunch of harsh moves that have happened around the league without teams quitting, and I was pointing out the difference between those situations and what went on last June.

Plus, there's a difference between announcing to the world he wants to trade someone and not giving a player the heads up before doing so.

Just because Drury can do whatever he wants (within the confines of whichever contract we're talking about) doesn't mean there isn't a better and more respectful way to go about doing it than how he did. Really, that applies to a lot of life, not just how hockey GMs treat their players. The fact that I can do something doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it when I do.

Agree to disagree.

I don't think GMs or teams own the players anything other than what is in their contract.

Build your team as you see fit. If not, it's your ass, not theirs.

Pissing off multi-millionaires who are paid for results ON THE ICE shouldn't be a huge thing.

Just get it done.

This is what guaranteed contracts get you. If they could be cut, diff story.

 

[Boris Zubov]

26 minutes of Boomer Esiason talking about the Rangers 24/25 season:

Boomer is out to lunch with his Trouba takes. Color me shocked that a former pro athlete is taking the side of other pro-athletes.

He was spot on with calling out Laffy for disappearing after signing his deal & saying needs to become a professional.

 

[LionsHeart]

Finally listening to Up in the Blue Seats and holy moly is Boyle not taking any prisoners.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Alright folks, that's enough about Mollie.

i’ll take this to twitter dms

 

[will1066]

I wonder if Boyle is putting himself in harm's way with MSG being unhinged when not on duty on their dime.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The Goodrow stuff was slimey by Drury, there’s not really any other way to say it (unless you’re just a huge homer)

Like I’m fine with the move but let’s not act like any of us wouldn’t be pissed about that situation if we were Goodrow

 

[haohmaru]

Drury said. "He's a terrific leader and we think he'll be a great Rangers captain for years to come."Aug 9, 2022

If only he didn't forget how to, you know, play hockey well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wonder if Boyle is putting himself in harm's way with MSG being unhinged when not on duty on their dime.

I don't think he gives a f***.

He has I think, 4 different gigs. He'll end up graduating to a studio gig at some point and be a great analyst.

 

[LOFIN]

I wonder if Boyle is putting himself in harm's way with MSG being unhinged when not on duty on their dime.

Vally isn't holding back on the broadcasts is he? So why would it be a problem?

 

[tiggles]

I also think Boyle was very careful not to put too much blame on management lol

 

[haohmaru]

Agree to disagree.

I don't think GMs or teams own the players anything other than what is in their contract.

Build your team as you see fit. If not, it's your ass, not theirs.

Pissing off multi-millionaires who are paid for results ON THE ICE shouldn't be a huge thing.

Just get it done.

This is what guaranteed contracts get you. If they could be cut, diff story.

100% ^

And exactly why I agreed to disagree as well.

It's a nicety. If I were GM, would I be more communicative? Absolutely.

Is the player entitled to that? No.

Look at Guentzl - agreed to 8M with Carolina, who thought the deal was done, and then hopscotches to TB with a whoopsie-doo and who is f***ed again? The team.

The sooner everyone realizes that every party does what's best for their interests first the sooner we can all stop talking about this shit.

The players in the NYR whose knickers were in a twist about this, as professional athletes, should be f***ing embarrassed by how far this was taken and the damage that it should never have done. Grow a pair.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

He was already an emerging leader. When he was named captain HE bought books on leadership and teamwork for all of the players on the rangers to read and to help convey what a team culture was and why everyone was important. He wasnt doing his own research after he got the C, he was being a leader by pulling the group together and making sure they all realized that everyone was a part of the success. There is a HUGE difference...

I will answer your post tomorrow, I hope.
Been traveling since 0530 ET. I have a lot to say on the subject.

 

[Tawnos]

He isn't "owed" the courtesy. The players aren't "owed" that courtesy either. It's a nicety, but it's not necessary. It's also a liability if the word gets out before the deal is done and the player can get ahead of the team from a PR standpoint. I disagree with your premise that it's owed. It isn't.



That wasn't directed at you to "twist your words" at all. Merely a general statement that the player is some sort of victim here and I don't agree with that. Your statement above ("owed") shows you feel differently. Under the rules of the CBA, Drury did nothing wrong and even said so when confronted about it. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, however.

“It's my job, and 31 other GMs’ jobs, to try and do everything we can to help our team,” Drury said via Vince Z. Mercogliano of USA Today. There's things at our disposal in the CBA. I'm not trying to mess with players. I have a ton of respect for Barclay and certainly, as I've said already, for Jacob. I'm just trying to do the best I can to move the team forward and make changes that I think are necessary.”

Agree to disagree.

I don't think GMs or teams own the players anything other than what is in their contract.

Build your team as you see fit. If not, it's your ass, not theirs.

Pissing off multi-millionaires who are paid for results ON THE ICE shouldn't be a huge thing.

Just get it done.

This is what guaranteed contracts get you. If they could be cut, diff story.

Drury says he respects those guys, but his communication with them doesn't bear out the claim. I think we could get in a discussion about what is owed from managers to employees in a workplace relationship but, in a way, it doesn't matter what you or I think here. What matters is what the players expect from the front offices, and very clearly Drury didn't meet that expectation while other GMs in similar situations have. Someone mentioned in another comment that this is a different generation of players, and what might have flown 15-20 years ago doesn't fly today. I think that has the right of it.

 

[LOFIN]

The Goodrow stuff was slimey by Drury, there’s not really any other way to say it (unless you’re just a huge homer)

Like I’m fine with the move but let’s not act like any of us wouldn’t be pissed about that situation if we were Goodrow

Have to remind people, that Friedman said in 32 thoughts that after the Goodrow stuff happened, plenty of people (I would assume players and agents) reached out to him and said that they wonder if this type of stuff would be brought up in the next CBA. Yes, Drury did nothing wrong by the CBA here. But the spirit of the NTC is that you are safe from going to those destinations. And those people wondered if some people would be alarmed by this "loophole" discovered by Drury, and would drive a change in the next CBA where a NTC would also mean you cannot be picked up on waivers by that team.

Obviously, that was just the perspective of some players and agents, and no doubt the owner/GM side of the negotiations would say f*** that, that undermines the whole purpose of waivers. But that snippet should tell you how all of this was perceived, not just within the Rangers locker room but around the league.

 

[will1066]

Vally isn't holding back on the broadcasts is he? So why would it be a problem?

Disagree. He holds back from what he's really thinking. He definitely chooses his words thoughtfully on air.