Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[HatTrick Swayze]

You can't separate "Drury put together a talented team" from "the players just quit."

If that's what you think, he hired the players who quit.

And I know what people are gonna tell themselves "oh they get the money and then they quit." Bullshit.

People on here begged and pleaded with this team not to extend Zibanejad because it wasn't gonna age well, and now we wanna act surprised. We begged and pleaded not to extend Shesterkin because this team is cooked, and he did it anyway. He did it anyway because he thinks this group is competing soon. He traded for JT Miller on January 31st. It was a first round pick for a player who is THIRTY-THREE years old in May. It was a win-now move. It was as win-now as it gets. I don't care what people try to tell themselves. You're getting into no war in Ba Sing Se territory telling me JT Miller wasn't a right f***ing now acquisition.

Let's assume the worst about this group. Chris Kreider quit. Mika Zibanejad doesn't eat meat. Adam Fox is fat. Alexis Lafreniere is fat. Nobody trains, and nobody cares about hockey.

Chris Drury doubled down on that group 11 weeks ago to compete this year. That's what he got JT Miller for.

Well said. The players were clearly upset about roster moves, and let those feelings manifest themselves on the ice. That’s obviously unacceptable and needs to be adresssd.

But it’s not the whole story for why this team collapsed, not even close. Yet it is all we are discussing. I wonder why it’s being pushed by NYR PR and media relations. Probably because it takes the heat off of the dog shit roster construction decisions Drury has made, and lets him skate by with one line of “look, we all need to be better.”

It’s amazing how much public opinion one can paper over with a trite sound bite like that.

 

[McRanger92]

It’s not managements job to clear transactions with the players (in any sport), especially when the team is playing so poorly. Much like Mika said “I know what my contract says”, did Goodrow and Kreider and Trouba not know what their contracts said? And as far as transparency goes, not many teams put it out there when they are trying to trade guys like NYR did with that memo back in November. Seems like a contingent of this team just disliked the message.

Managers manage, coaches coach and players play. Why is that so hard for this team and their inflated sense of self worth?

 

[80s Kid]

Accountability from the same player who quit on his previous team? I honestly dont get the JT Miller cult.

He was dogging it in VAN and moped worse than Zibanejad to the point that the team had to send him home. JT is everything you hate about Zibanejad. Its hilarious that you guys dont see it.

A lot of people from the VAN board liked JTM and wanted to get rid of EP. They liked the way he played, including in the playoffs where some referenced the fact that JTM was able to keep McDavid in check during the playoffs.

I can understand not liking the trade in terms of asset mgmt but I really don't think Mika would enjoy dropping his gloves or trying to put an opposing player through the glass on the forecheck. He's also been a PPG player since we traded for him.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, I don't wanna unpack the whole comment, and as I've said, I don't think these comments have nearly the meaning we give them, but this bit from K. Miller stands out.

"I was listening to a lot of the noise and just not really playing the game I wanted to play. That was a hard season for me to kind of get a grip of how I wanted to play."

I think he's touching on lack of identity and...yeah! Yeah, definitely. That's a fact.

And you can say suck it up, he's soft, he sucks, whatever. That's not the important part.

Lack of identity is a huge issue here. If you want everyone on the crew to work hard and play their role to make the boat move, you have to make it clear to all of them what direction the boat is moving in. If you want "good hockey," it has to be clearly defined what we consider that to be.

I think a lack of team identity is where the people who lean more towards analytics/roster problems and people who lean more towards culture problems have a common enemy. "I don't know what we're supposed to be" affects the room as well as affecting performance on the ice.

 

[Takeahnase]

Dylan Larkin was a little outspoken yesterday on what the front office didn’t do at the trade deadline. Maybe a guy who is 29 and hasn’t tasted the playoffs is a little frustrated and that is perfectly reasonable.

Arghhhhj STFU players play coaches coach front office plays suduku

 

[Ruggs225]

Your recommendation is admirable, but if I recall correctly (and I could be wrong), similar tactics didn't work with Sather (who was not well liked either). If Drury has Dolan's trust and backing, he'll be here for the long haul. Remember -- Sather had 7 years of nonplayoff action with some of the worst teams we'd ever seen.

Sather though was well liked and respected by peers and even the players.

Drury seems to be hated by players, fans, employees, reporters basically everyone but his relatives, and whatever gm
Is trading, i mean taking advantage, of him at any given time.

He is not a well liked person.

 

[Siddi]

Also, I don't wanna unpack the whole comment, and as I've said, I don't think these comments have nearly the meaning we give them, but this bit from K. Miller stands out.

"I was listening to a lot of the noise and just not really playing the game I wanted to play. That was a hard season for me to kind of get a grip of how I wanted to play."

I think he's touching on lack of identity and...yeah! Yeah, definitely. That's a fact.

And you can say suck it up, he's soft, he sucks, whatever. That's not the important part.

Lack of identity is a huge issue here. If you want everyone on the crew to work hard and play their role to make the boat move, you have to make it clear to all of them what direction the boat is moving in. If you want "good hockey," it has to be clearly defined what we consider that to be.

I think a lack of team identity is where the people who lean more towards analytics/roster problems and people who lean more towards culture problems have a common enemy. "I don't know what we're supposed to be" affects the room as well as affecting performance on the ice.

Exactly this!

Zibanejad is not asking to sit in on trade calls. What he wants is Drury to adress the group and tell them what the plan forward is AFTER the trades have been made.

 

[Machinehead]

Dylan Larkin was a little outspoken yesterday on what the front office didn’t do at the trade deadline. Maybe a guy who is 29 and hasn’t tasted the playoffs is a little frustrated and that is perfectly reasonable.

Arghhhhj STFU players play coaches coach front office plays suduku

"I want the players to show some fire but don't criticize dear leader."

 

[Ruggs225]

Also, I don't wanna unpack the whole comment, and as I've said, I don't think these comments have nearly the meaning we give them, but this bit from K. Miller stands out.

"I was listening to a lot of the noise and just not really playing the game I wanted to play. That was a hard season for me to kind of get a grip of how I wanted to play."

I think he's touching on lack of identity and...yeah! Yeah, definitely. That's a fact.

And you can say suck it up, he's soft, he sucks, whatever. That's not the important part.

Lack of identity is a huge issue here. If you want everyone on the crew to work hard and play their role to make the boat move, you have to make it clear to all of them what direction the boat is moving in. If you want "good hockey," it has to be clearly defined what we consider that to be.

I think a lack of team identity is where the people who lean more towards analytics/roster problems and people who lean more towards culture problems have a common enemy. "I don't know what we're supposed to be" affects the room as well as affecting performance on the ice.

The problem with miller is he makes the same brain dead plays since his rookie year. So yes, the noise might have gotten to him, but he hasnt really grown at all since he first stepped on the ice at MSG. He hasnt never seem to had the head for this game.

 

[Machinehead]

The problem with miller is he makes the same brain dead plays since his rookie year. So yes, the noise might have gotten to him, but he hasnt really grown at all since he first stepped on the ice at MSG. He hasnt never seem to had the head for this game.

I mean I don't disagree with that. I think he's very problematic as a player and I've been vocal about saying the same about Zibanejad.

I still think their critiques of management are valid, to be honest.

 

[UnSandvich]

We missed the playoffs by 6 points this season, despite the veteran core completely quitting on the season partway through. I’d be more inclined to blame Drury if I hadn’t watched the team completely no-show multiple games in the last few weeks of the regular season.

At the end of the day, the team veteran core chose to care more about trying to get the GM fired than trying to win the Stanley Cup. If they were visibly giving their all and just came up short on the whole, Drury would very possibly already be gone. Instead we get “Well I would like it if I played better but Mr Chris is mean” and “Well I had some health issues this season, but I’d rather make the team worse than heal up and be ready for a playoff push”. f*** outta here

 

[UnSandvich]

And to be clear, I think Drury is a thoroughly mediocre problem at our GM spot. I just don’t think that’s enough to absolve the players of giving up on the season

 

[Ruggs225]

I mean I don't disagree with that. I think he's very problematic as a player and I've been vocal about saying the same about Zibanejad.

I still think their critiques of management are valid, to be honest.

100% his critiques are valid. I hoped they critiqued more.

Either Drury would be forced to trade them, win! Or drury gets fired, win! Or both happens, Powerball win!!!!

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

If Kreider’s hand requires surgery, it complicates any possible trade and likely makes a buyout impossible to execute..

Most frustrating part is it happened at a tournament he had no business going to

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Most frustrating part is it happened at a tournament he had no business going to

It happened against Buffalo after the tournament.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Accountability from the same player who quit on his previous team? I honestly dont get the JT Miller cult.

He was dogging it in VAN and moped worse than Zibanejad to the point that the team had to send him home. JT is everything you hate about Zibanejad. Its hilarious that you guys dont see it.

As someone from Vancouver, this is patently false. Miller got frustrated, fired up & angry. Pettersson is the one who moped worse than Zibanejad. Literally just glides around and doesn't even try to do anything many nights. Everyone in Vancouver likes Bozo more than Pettersson and it's not remotely close.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Whats with the EV-defense? I was told that he was an elite 2-way forward.

most people equate being a douchebag and throwing hits after the puck is long gone to being good defensively. Unfortunately it’s far from true.

 

[NYR Viper]

Fun fact: JT Miller has 12 goals in 91 playoff games.

Funner fact:

Miller has 30 points in his last 30 playoff games

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well said. The players were clearly upset about roster moves, and let those feelings manifest themselves on the ice. That’s obviously unacceptable and needs to be adresssd.

But it’s not the whole story for why this team collapsed, not even close. Yet it is all we are discussing. I wonder why it’s being pushed by NYR PR and media relations. Probably because it takes the heat off of the dog shit roster construction decisions Drury has made, and lets him skate by with one line of “look, we all need to be better.”

It’s amazing how much public opinion one can paper over with a trite sound bite like that.

I don't think it's really being "pushed." Things were said and certain people have already believed these things to be the driving force behind this team's performance this year and of course these people are going to run with it.

Mika's comments while honest and not boilerplate-y like Kreider's, were f***ing stupid. Its been covered ad nauseam here but players need to worry about playing, not about what management is doing. The GM does not owe the team an explanation for every single move that they make.

That said, the ghost of Goodrow and Trouba had zero impact on what they did in a game (or a stretch of games) in March.

Anyone who thinks that all of the problems can be solved by getting rid of the "bad apples" is kidding themselves. They need a new tree.

 

[Graves97]

Or he is the only one with balls to call Drury out and knows he cant be traded and Dolan would never agree to sit an 8.5 mil asset who produces. I think it is more likely Drury is gone if push comes to shove.

Or Mika is paid to play and not opine on management level decisions. What exactly makes Mika so special that Drury needs to check in with him regarding any potential moves? Does Mika think he's at a Mahomes, Brady, or Jeter level to warrant this? Guy is an overpaid 2C on a good team who knows how to PK.

 

[tiggles]

I'd be more inclined to take Drury's side if he wasn't universally disliked by seemingly everyone he comes in contact with. While the Goodrow and Trouba deals were ones that absolutely had to be done, I have absolutely no doubt that he went about them in the worst, most dipshit-y way possible.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

View attachment 1019938

It's not as good as Pettersson's! (And as you can see, the power kill is still in full force)

I don't care that much about penalty killing. Like, not everyone has to be great at it. So, JT Miller is a good player, I will grant you that.

Still, Elias Pettersson's shooting percentage dipped 3% this year. Next year, when it stops doing that, everyone will forget about his "problems," and he'll go back to being the would-be best player the Rangers ever drafted.

And we'll keep telling ourselves we acquired the hero in that arc.

Pettersson has some really worrying trends that extend beyond his shooting % or being "soft" mentally.

 

[bhamill]

Agreed. Makes no sense.

Unless his injury issues really weren't the issue. I'm not saying he's lying, but he may well WANT to believe injuries were the only issue and not his age/attitude on the ice/physical decline...

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

As someone from Vancouver, this is patently false. Miller got frustrated, fired up & angry. Pettersson is the one who moped worse than Zibanejad. Literally just glides around and doesn't even try to do anything many nights. Everyone in Vancouver likes Bozo more than Pettersson and it's not remotely close.

So they are morons, which is fine.

Vancouver fans are gluttons for punishment that are foaming at the mouth thinking about trading for Jack Hughes, who’s a very similar player to Pettersson. But shout out to them

 

[haohmaru]

I get the Drury hate, and I’m no apologist, but as far as this “core” goes and its treatment I submit the following for review:

1. Drury was handed a roster full of NMC’s and people he didn’t draft. Only now are his fingerprints really starting on this team.

2. After the Florida loss last year Drury acknowledged that this team wasn’t good enough. He tried to address that by trading Trouba the “nice way” and was subsequently cock blocked into running back the same roster. Goodrow, while a leader in the room had a horrific regular season and did nothing to justify his cap hit short of a few playoff goals. Look at Carrick’s performance. How was that move? Goodrow needed to go for SOME flexibility cap wise.

3. So, Drury ran it back (and this definitely a bone thrown to “the core”) and after a 12-4-1 record, or whatever it was, that was clearly a f***ing mirage decided that what he felt after last year’s playoffs was correct. This group is never getting it done so out goes “the memo”

4. Said group folds like a house of cards and, in the process, proves that Drury was completely right. Let the blow up begin

Drury has been average but at least he has the stones to break this thing up and acknowledge that he has to be better. That’s something I heard very litttle of from the players yesterday.

And, yes, the Vancouver resident above is correct. Everything that I’ve heard re: JTM and EP is that EP is the pouting softee, not Miller.